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Really weird electric issue


ANarrowEscape

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1 minute ago, ANarrowEscape said:

Yes they have a key. I know how this all relates to the OP, but not sure the relevance of my neighbors having a sense of humor fits, but I'm sure they do.

 

When the gas leak you don't have sets off the gas alarm, the neighbours with the key sneak inside your boat and turn off the isolator key ...

 

:giggles:

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Just now, TheBiscuits said:

 

When the gas leak you don't have sets off the gas alarm, the neighbours with the key sneak inside your boat and turn off the isolator key ...

 

:giggles:

Oh right okay. 

I did think of that, though they aren't the type really. But I did put sheets of kitchen roll on both sets of steps, you can't avoid it to get to the switch. Yes they could have brought their own kitchen roll to replace, but I think there's more chance of it being a supernatural spirit than that.

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Here is my Columbo in me  when your on your boat other boaters go by slower then when your  not on the boat .

The master switch is worn out  and when the boats go past fast it bangs  your boat on the bank  and the switch clicks off 

Or there is a dodgy wire connection that is shorting out the master switch  this is only a guess 

Graham

By the way I work on buses and some very weird things happen to wiring if the bus is not used for a few days 

Graham 

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4 minutes ago, jacko264 said:

Here is my Columbo in me  when your on your boat other boaters go by slower then when your  not on the boat .

The master switch is worn out  and when the boats go past fast it bangs  your boat on the bank  and the switch clicks off 

Or there is a dodgy wire connection that is shorting out the master switch  this is only a guess 

Graham

By the way I work on buses and some very weird things happen to wiring if the bus is not used for a few days 

Graham 

Possibly? But the boat is quite tight to the bank, and I've put tyres over the edge to avoid banging, and that would be late in the evening, as I've left it at dark, gone back the morning after and it's tripped (turned). I'm going to investigate further.

New fuse box will get fitted, but for now I might just turn the stupid thing off before I leave it. Fitting the flue pipe back tomorrow so will be able to stay overnight. Once restrictions are lifted of course - because apparently it's okay to hire a boat for a holiday and stay overnight, just not if you own one...

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5 hours ago, nicknorman said:

When gas bottles get refilled they are subject to some checks, including to ensure the gas valve isn't leaking.

Twice in the last 3 years I have received a Calor cylinder that leaked from the tap spindle when turned on - but didn't leak when turned off - which makes me think the checks aren't as rigorous as they used to be.

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On 27/12/2020 at 18:59, jacko264 said:

Just as a try put some  string though the hole in the key and tie the switch on keep a sharp knife next the it in case you want the switch off fast 

Done it. The switch is actually sideways when on, it's off when it's turned upwards. So I've put string on a hook to the roof. 

 

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The strangeness continues; I went to the boat yesterday to try and finish fitting the new chimney and try and seal it etc, but when I went on the boat the switch was fine - no movement from how I left it, although now, the radio was on. I don't think I've ever used it so definitely didn't leave it on. I spoke to my neighbour, the one with the key, who swears he hasn't been in. And to be honest I definitely believe him as nothing was disturbed (the kitchen roll sheets I left on the floor, and a beer mat I precariously left on the inside of the door handle. 

 

I'm now going to have to think of a way of setting up a dash cam, or something similar. Does anybody know if a leisure battery would last 12 hours with a dashcam?

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9 minutes ago, ANarrowEscape said:

I'm now going to have to think of a way of setting up a dash cam, or something similar. Does anybody know if a leisure battery would last 12 hours with a dashcam?

What is the actual 'real-world' capacity of your battery now ? (Not what it was rated at when new)

What is the wattage (current 'consumption') of the dash-cam ?

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

What is the actual 'real-world' capacity of your battery now ? (Not what it was rated at when new)

What is the wattage (current 'consumption') of the dash-cam ?

It's a spare battery and hasn't been charged in a while, but it's on 12.4v if memory serves. The dash cam is a little 12v cig lighter type, not sure on it's consumption. It's an Apeman.

110 amp hour battery

Edited by ANarrowEscape
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Just now, ANarrowEscape said:

It's a spare battery and hasn't been charged in a while, but it's on 12.4v if memory serves. The dash cam is a little 12v cig lighter type, not sure on it's consumption. It's an Aaman.

110 amp hour battery

It was a 110ah battery.

 

Every time a battery is used and recharged it reduces its capacity (thats why we have to replace then), and, storage for any length of time at 12.4 volts will certainly have 'killed it' even further. A FLA battery fully charged is around 12.7 -12.8v, at 12.4v it is about 30% discharged.

 

You need to do a discharge test and find out what it's capacity is now - its no use keeping it for a spare if it is only 20 or 30Ah.

I recently did a discharge test on my 'buggy' battery as it was getting a bit sluggish on the starter motor and its capacity was down to 23 Ah.

 

 

9 minutes ago, ANarrowEscape said:

The dash cam is a little 12v cig lighter type, not sure on it's consumption

Somewhere on the 'label' it will show a number for either watts or amps (and the voltage)

What are the numbers ?

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4 minutes ago, ANarrowEscape said:

It's a spare battery and hasn't been charged in a while, but it's on 12.4v if memory serves. The dash cam is a little 12v cig lighter type, not sure on it's consumption. It's an Apeman.

110 amp hour battery

12.4 volts is roughly a true  60% charged but that is 65% of whatever capacity is left after whatever sulphation has taken place so still can't help. For example 12.4 volts could mean its about 60% charged of a capacity of 20 Ah with the rest of the 110 Ah taken away by sulphation. My guess is that it would supply the dashcam at least overnight and maybe 24 hours or more but it all depends on the battery's actual capacity.

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Just now, Tony Brooks said:

12.4 volts is roughly a true  60% charged but that is 65% of whatever capacity is left after whatever sulphation has taken place so still can't help. For example 12.4 volts could mean its about 60% charged of a capacity of 20 Ah with the rest of the 110 Ah taken away by sulphation. My guess is that it would supply the dashcam at least overnight and maybe 24 hours or more but it all depends on the battery's actual capacity.

I'll bring It home and charge it first, see what it reads after a charge. It was relatively new (6 month old).

 

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7 minutes ago, ANarrowEscape said:

I'll bring It home and charge it first, see what it reads after a charge. It was relatively new (6 month old).

 

What it reads after charging will not show you its capacity - you can have a 12v battery the size of a finger nail, and a 12v battery the size of a bus, the difference is their capacity (Ah).

It is the Ah that 'does the work', turning your starter motor or powering your dash cam.

 

You can destroy a batteries capacity in 'weeks' by leaving it in a state of discharge. To maximise the battery life it should (ideally) be recharged immediately it has been used - this is why car starter batteries tend to last many years, they are back to fully recharged within a few minutes of having Ah taken out of them.

 

Once you have the battery charged (what equipment do you have to tell you when it is fully charged ? Do you just wait for the 'green light' on the charger ? Do you have an ammeter and voltmeter ?)once it is fully charge, then, you can do a discharge test using a known load.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 minute ago, ANarrowEscape said:

I'll bring It home and charge it first, see what it reads after a charge. It was relatively new (6 month old).

 

Unless you discharge it at a known rate and time it you will have no way of assessing the capacity. I agree charge it and it may last a week or more but no one can know because the amount of current the cam will draw and the actual battery capacity is not known. I expect dash cams are based on mobile phone camera technology and their batteries are rated in mAh so a 110Ah battery is enormous in comparison. Also the discharge will be so low the battery will return a higher capacity then the battery's nominal capacity so that will help as well.

  • Greenie 1
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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

What it reads after charging will not show you its capacity - you can have a 12v battery the size of a finger nail, and a 12v battery the size of a bus, the difference is their capacity (Ah).

It is the Ah that 'does the work', turning your starter motor or powering your dash cam.

 

You can destroy a batteries capacity in 'weeks' by leaving it in a state of discharge. To maximise the battery life it should (ideally) be recharged immediately it has been used - this is why car starter batteries tend to last many years, they are back to fully recharged within a few minutes of having Ah taken out of them.

 

Once you have the battery charged (what equipment do you have to tell you when it is fully charged ? Do you just wait for the 'green light' on the charger ? Do you have an ammeter and voltmeter ?)once it is fully charge, then, you can do a discharge test using a known load.

The charger has an auto-turn off when batteries reach their limit, and I also have a volt-meter. So should be able to gauge some kind of capacity. Volt wise at least. 

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Unless you discharge it at a known rate and time it you will have no way of assessing the capacity. I agree charge it and it may last a week or more but no one can know because the amount of current the cam will draw and the actual battery capacity is not known. I expect dash cams are based on mobile phone camera technology and their batteries are rated in mAh so a 110Ah battery is enormous in comparison. Also the discharge will be so low the battery will return a higher capacity then the battery's nominal capacity so that will help as well.

It should only need to be on for 12 hours or so, as I will go back each day until I work out what the hell is going on. I might do a test at home to see how long it can run for. As long as it's over 12 hours I will be fine.

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Just now, ANarrowEscape said:

Apparently I lent my charger to my Nephew who is currently isolating, so I'm going to have to buy a new one - without spending too much.

 

5 amp would be okay, wouldn't it? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07T6GV32V/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_IzV6FbD6TWAVA

 

It will be slow (maybe 2 days to recharge) but yes it will be OK

 

BUT do not believe it when it says it is full, it is not.

 

To determine when the battery is fully charged you need both a DC ammeter and a DC voltmeter.

 

Charge the battery and as it starts to get towards 'full' measure the current and the volts, keep repeating every half hour noting the 'numbers'. When the voltage has stabilised at 14.4-14.6 volts AND the current has been around 1 amp (without changing) for one hour the battery is to all intents and purposes charged.

Leave the battery to stand for a couple of hours with no charging and no loads connected.

 

To determine the batteries capacity you need a known load, a car headlight was always a good test. Lets say you find a 60 watt (5 amp)load.

Make a note of the time.

Connect the load to the battery.

Monitor the voltage regularly until it gets down to around 12.1 volts, note the time.

Disconnect the load and the voltage should rise to (maybe 12.2 or 12.3v)

Reconnect the load keep monitoring the voltage, disconnect and recheck repeatedly until the 'disconnected' voltage stbiliases at 12.1 volts Note the Time.

 

12.1 volt is the voltage at 50% charge, so, if you have taken the voltage from 100% (12.8v) to 50% (12.1v) in (say) 5 hours, then 5 hours at a 60w (5 amp) load means that 50% of the battery capacity is 25Ah (5 hours x 5 amps) so, 100% of capacity is actually 50AH.

 

You 110Ah battery is NOW only a 50Ah battery.

 

It is not a perfect method, but it is 'good enough for Government work'.

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14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It will be slow (maybe 2 days to recharge) but yes it will be OK

 

BUT do not believe it when it says it is full, it is not.

 

To determine when the battery is fully charged you need both a DC ammeter and a DC voltmeter.

 

Charge the battery and as it starts to get towards 'full' measure the current and the volts, keep repeating every half hour noting the 'numbers'. When the voltage has stabilised at 14.4-14.6 volts AND the current has been around 1 amp (without changing) for one hour the battery is to all intents and purposes charged.

Leave the battery to stand for a couple of hours with no charging and no loads connected.

 

To determine the batteries capacity you need a known load, a car headlight was always a good test. Lets say you find a 60 watt (5 amp)load.

Make a note of the time.

Connect the load to the battery.

Monitor the voltage regularly until it gets down to around 12.1 volts, note the time.

Disconnect the load and the voltage should rise to (maybe 12.2 or 12.3v)

Reconnect the load keep monitoring the voltage, disconnect and recheck repeatedly until the 'disconnected' voltage stbiliases at 12.1 volts Note the Time.

 

12.1 volt is the voltage at 50% charge, so, if you have taken the voltage from 100% (12.8v) to 50% (12.1v) in (say) 5 hours, then 5 hours at a 60w (5 amp) load means that 50% of the battery capacity is 25Ah (5 hours x 5 amps) so, 100% of capacity is actually 50AH.

 

You 110Ah battery is NOW only a 50Ah battery.

 

It is not a perfect method, but it is 'good enough for Government work'.

Okay thanks for this. I opted for a slightly bigger 10amp charger, so won't be as long to charge i suppose.

Thanks again.

13 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Is the Finch out of pokey and flying around again?

Not sure what you mean?

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1 minute ago, ANarrowEscape said:

Not sure what you mean?

He was a bad man.

Homeless, he patrolled the canal towpaths, breaking into boats, eating and drinking whatever he could find, spending the night onboard, washing the pots, tidying up and then leaving.

 

Was doing this for many years eventually caught and 'locked up'.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

He was a bad man.

Homeless, he patrolled the canal towpaths, breaking into boats, eating and drinking whatever he could find, spending the night onboard, washing the pots, tidying up and then leaving.

 

Was doing this for many years eventually caught and 'locked up'.

He cleaned up? That seems an okay deal. Did he listen to Radio 4? As that was the station the radio was on.

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4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Search the forum for Mr Finch.

Ahh right okay. He was a little out of my area, but I'm sure he would travel as well?

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes, well known for it - apparently he particularly liked 'The world at One' and the 3pm 'afternoon story'

Ha ha! An aristocrat ey?

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