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Cheshire to West Yorks


arthor

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Good afternoon all

This is my first post. We have recently taken the plunge and bought a 54' narrowboat. Don't want to tempt fate by posting the name on my profile as it is subject to survey but I'm optimistic enough to have been planning how to get in from Cheshire to what will be her new home mooring at Lemonroyd on the A&C. All dependent upon any further Covid restrictions of course.

It will be March/April before I move it due to the mooring not being available till then. Setting aside the L&L, I see three options open to us. Rochdale, Hudds Narrow or down the T&M and the Trent to Keadby.

The first two look fairly similar in terms of locking up and then down but the Hudds Narrow looks a bit nicer and seems to avoid more of the urban sprawl of Greater Manchester. 

We have hired a few boats and done some of the Llangollen as well as the Black Country Ring. Enough locks on that one to make us feel we are ok with how things work and I'm pretty confident. What I haven't been on is a river so I'm wondering if going via Nottingham will leave me on tricky stretches of the lower Trent.  I understand that turning left into Keadby can be a bit of a challenge. Not sure if what I have read has over egged it or not.

We are in our early 60s and it will just us and the dog. There is a possibility that we may be able to get an extra hand for part of the trip provided public transport is ok. ie no probs getting a train from Leeds to Manchester Piccadilly.

Any thoughts on my options would be most welcome, whether they be grim warnings or bags of encouragement.

 

regards

 

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L&L route is far and away the simplest and easiest.  Can we ask why you chose to set aside the L&L route?  If it's the thought of Wigan Flight that puts you off, rule it back in!  There are such a good bunch of volunteers on there that it's usually an easy trip - takes around 4 hours going up.

 

Either the Rochdale or the Hudd take you via the C&H, and that is still shut.  If the works go well it should be reopening in "Spring 2021" but it may overrun - it's a big project, although hopefully it won't get any worse this winter!

 

Once it opens you could do either route, but carefully check the dimensions of your boat against the size restrictions for Standedge Tunnel here:  

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/places-to-visit/standedge-tunnel-and-visitor-centre/boating-through-standedge-tunnel

 

 

Have you tried sticking the routes into canalplan to see the differences in time/effort?

 

As you only say Cheshire, I've picked King's Lock as likely being on the route:

 

https://canalplan.org.uk/cgi-bin/canal.cgi?quickroute=yes&where=The Kings Lock PH, Lemonroyd Marina

 

L&L : 154.79 miles and 96 locks

Hudd: 100.32 miles and 133 locks

Rochdale: 105.64 miles and 128 locks

Trent: 203.51 miles and 95 locks

 

It mostly depends on which route you'd rather take and how long you want to spend doing it. 

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Many thanks for that advice.

We were thinking of the L&L as our first cruise but I guess there's no reason why it can't be our route back with the boat. There's no avoiding heavy locking somewhere as the Pennines is a hefty lump. My thoughts on the T&M and the Trent was that more miles but less locks would be a bit more mellow.

The boat is in Aqueduct Marina on the Midd branch of the SU. 

I have been on Canalplan and I have to say it's excellent, particularly the pdf facility. Thanks for those figures.

We were going to allow two weeks but would hope to be a bit quicker than that. We were also thinking of perhaps two legs but that would mean finding a temporary mooring halfway with the risk that Covid restrictions may change while it's there.

I will rethink the L&L.

Thanks again

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If you go Huddersfield narrow you can avoid big locks till Huddersfield, big locks are fun but a fair bit harder to operate. The Rochdale are not the best examples of broad locks as maintenance is somewhat lacking. The same applies to the Huddersfield narrow, so although narrow like the Llangollen they are harder work. Both those routes go via  the figure of three locks which were destroyed in last years floods and may not be open in time. The lower trent is tidal, but not a big problem if there is not much recent rain,  and you follow the goalkeepers advice. Once through Keadby you are on electric locks some of which are huge, the hardest bit is getting ashore because the lock landings are designed for barges with a deck 4 to 6 foot from the water.

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thanks for that about the lower Trent.

I did wonder if rain might be an issue in March.

Quite fancy doing the Trent at some point but I might talk to other boaters at the marina about it.

Sounds like the two middle routes may be an issue for the reasons you mention so my preference order seems to be inverted now.

1. L&L

2. Trent

the other two equal bottom?

 

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21 minutes ago, Detling said:

The lower trent is tidal, but not a big problem if there is not much recent rain,  and you follow the goalkeepers advice.

Their advice is probably as good as you'll get from the Lock keepers, which for someone with little experience you have little choice but to follow, but is, in many cases, not actually the best, or optimum advice for the Trent.

 

The standard of Lockies on the Trent has reduced considerably year on year, and you now stand as much chance of getting one of the maintenance staff as a lockie.

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4 minutes ago, arthor said:

Sounds like the two middle routes may be an issue for the reasons you mention so my preference order seems to be inverted now.

1. L&L

2. Trent

the other two equal bottom?

 

That would be my choice order too.  

 

Both the Rochdale and the Hudd are worth doing in their own right, but you can do them both in one go as a southern Pennine Ring if you are feeling keen! :D

 

Lemonroyd is an Aquavista marina, so you can stay for up to 28 days at a different one (subject to availability) if that gives you any further ideas.  That would be Pennington and White Bear on the L&L route or Sawley and King's on the Trent route.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I wouldn't choose to do the tidal Trent in a newly purchased boat where you're not yet familiar with its foibles. If you break down on the L&L, you just call someone out. If you break down on the tideway, that's a whole other kettle of fish. The Rochdale and HNC are both fabulous canals, but yes, the L&L is probably more suitable for a first cruise.

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7 minutes ago, Richard Fairhurst said:

I wouldn't choose to do the tidal Trent in a newly purchased boat where you're not yet familiar with its foibles. If you break down on the L&L, you just call someone out. If you break down on the tideway, that's a whole other kettle of fish. 

I would think that they would have broken down a lot sooner then when they get to the tidal Trent if the boat was going to break down.

..and its downhill on the Trent, not pushing against the flow.

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28 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I would think that they would have broken down a lot sooner then when they get to the tidal Trent if the boat was going to break down.

..and its downhill on the Trent, not pushing against the flow.

It's a wise man that can predict when something like a boat is going to break down - especially a new(to you) boat when you are unfamiliar with all its foibles?

 

My choice would be the L&L  and i wouldn't be too worried about the fact that the L&L was going to be your first cruise. As you will know canals look very different when going the opposite way and you will have the added benefit of getting familiar with all the pubs and  best mooring places etc. And anyway, speaking as a Yorkshireman born very close to the L&L, it is by far and away the best canal, with only the downside that it goes from Gods own Country to the Dark side, so make sure you have had your vaccinations before you set off!:boat:

 

Howard

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1 hour ago, arthor said:

thanks for that about the lower Trent.

I did wonder if rain might be an issue in March.

Quite fancy doing the Trent at some point but I might talk to other boaters at the marina about it.

Sounds like the two middle routes may be an issue for the reasons you mention so my preference order seems to be inverted now.

1. L&L

2. Trent

the other two equal bottom?

 

You have excluded the two quickest routes. Using the Canalplan defaults, the quickest route from Aqueduct Marina to Lemonroyd Marina is via the Bridgewater, Ashton and Huddersfield canals at 66 hours, with the Rochdale route similar at 67 hours. The L&L is 78 hours and the Trent 89 hours.

 

You will do similar distances through Manchester suburbia with both the two shortest routes. 

 

Having done the Rochdale end to end 4 times in the last 2 years, in a 70 ft boat drawing 3 feet , with significant sections single handing, I can't really see what all the fuss is about.

 

You don't say how much narrowboating experience you have, but if you are a novice I would suggest the Trent is not an ideal first cruise. If you are going to do this I would strongly recommend that you buddy up with another boat so that if you do suffer from engine failure on the river there is someone to hand to take you in tow.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, howardang said:

it is by far and away the best canal, with only the downside that it goes from Gods own Country to the Dark side, so make sure you have had your vaccinations before you set off!:boat:

 

I agree that it's the best canal at one end.

 

Liverpool is great by boat.  It's one of the must do trips on the canals. :D

 

 

 

 

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As a 62 year old single handed boater, I would also go for the L&L, just take your time and enjoy it.

 

Then, when the figure of three locks re-open, hopefully by Easter next year, you could have a nice and easy summer cruise on the Rochdale out and the Huddersfield back ?

 

Kevin

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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

You have excluded the two quickest routes. Using the Canalplan defaults, the quickest route from Aqueduct Marina to Lemonroyd Marina is via the Bridgewater, Ashton and Huddersfield canals at 66 hours, with the Rochdale route similar at 67 hours. The L&L is 78 hours and the Trent 89 hours.

 

I'd not looked at the default timings, but I guarantee you I could do Water's Meeting at Stretford to Lemonroyd faster and easier via the L&L than via the Rochdale and Calder & Hebble.

 

 

 

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I've gone all four routes. I'd pick whichever one is actually open at the time! All have their plus and minus points and would take a remarkably similar length of time.

In the unlikely event that none of them has a stoppage, then my preferences in an unknown to me boat would be:

  1. Huddersfield Narrow
  2. L&L Actually joint equal with the Hudd.
  3. Rochdale
  4. Trent

In a boat known to be mechanically good and with adequate cooling, then the Trent would move up the list.

Jen

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53 minutes ago, David Mack said:

You don't say how much narrowboating experience you have, but if you are a novice I would suggest the Trent is not an ideal first cruise. If you are going to do this I would strongly recommend that you buddy up with another boat so that if you do suffer from engine failure on the river there is someone to hand to take you in tow.

I know this suggestion is often made, but having tried to 'catch' a boat on the Trent following engine failure, it is not as easy as 'you-tube' may suggest.

 

Two of us tried several times to get close enough to get a line on the drifting boat, but the boat was spinning in the current, (even with the anchor deployed) as well as getting closer to the weir, it took (probably) 4 or 5 attempts each trying to come alongside before the boat spun away, eventually the rope was caught, tied off and we got underway.

Fortunately all 3 boat skippers were experienced, otherwise it may no have gone as well as it did.

 

Having a SUITABLE anchor and 20 metres of chain is far more use than having another boat helplessly crusing 'alongside' unable to get a line across to you.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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What a fantastic source of knowledge other, more experienced, boaters are. Thanks to all of you.

I think it will be the L&L, S.Pennine ring later in the year and keep the Trent in mind for when we fancy heading off down south.

I'll get t'internet sorted so I can work "from home" and we can take as long as we want.

Hopefully get a report on the trip posted at some point

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11 minutes ago, arthor said:

What a fantastic source of knowledge other, more experienced, boaters are. Thanks to all of you.

I think it will be the L&L, S.Pennine ring later in the year and keep the Trent in mind for when we fancy heading off down south.

I'll get t'internet sorted so I can work "from home" and we can take as long as we want.

Hopefully get a report on the trip posted at some point

 

If you want any tips, hints or suggestions when you are route planning, feel free to ask for suggestions.

 

There's quite a few of us on here who know those waterways very well.  And the nearby pubs and restaurants if they are open by then! ;)

 

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I suggest you get familiar with the CRT stoppages web page, put in the canals you are interested in and it will list the stoppages. This will allow you to see if the Calder and Hebble is open or not.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices

 

This page also has a link to sign up for updates, you can choose waterways of interest and when a new stoppage occurs or is fixed, it normally gets emailed to you so you know ahead of arriving at it, or perhaps changing route.

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6 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

L&L route is far and away the simplest and easiest.  Can we ask why you chose to set aside the L&L route?  If it's the thought of Wigan Flight that puts you off, rule it back in!  There are such a good bunch of volunteers on there that it's usually an easy trip - takes around 4 hours going up.

Have you tried sticking the routes into canalplan to see the differences 

It's ten years ago now but moved our 'new' boat from Braunston to Burnley via outskirts of Mchester, Bridgewater, Wigan. 60yo, 50yo plus part time son. Wigan Flight unassisted but over two days. Three disabling breakdowns overall but on L&L so accessible to RCR and to local train stations to get home whilst awaiting parts. Have a look at YouTube to see what happens in Leeds when the Aire is in flood -Trent may not be your biggest problem. Just over two weeks of fairly long days but L&L gives easy access to services + shops all along the way - not sure about the other routes. Also potentially plenty of fellow boaters around to share locks and SWING BRIDGES. L+L could be a pleasant interlude.

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50 minutes ago, Opener said:

Of course, that picture raises the question of why a lock is needed there.  There doesn't seem to be much different in water levels.....

Cycling alongside the River Don in Sheffield this morning it was very hard to tell where the weirs are! Levels are high, but not so bad as at least there was still a cycle path to use...

 

13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That's something @arthor will have to get used to if his mooring will be at Lemonroyd!

In his first post, @arthor says he hasn't done any river navigation yet. He is soon going to be an expert!

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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