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Narrowboat stern access door arrangement


Telstar

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Hi All,

Thanks to everyone for the great welcome in the newbie/introduction page.

I now need to finalise the layout for my upcoming 45ft cruiser stern build.

 

The part I need help with is the rear access door arrangement.

Should I opt for a central door or should I go for a door fitted offset to one side.

Should I have an external stair well (no sliding hatch) or some internal steps (with sliding hatch)?

 

The boat will have a 7ft cruiser stern and the bedroom is at the aft end of the boat.

 

I do realise the choice is mine ? but I'm looking for some well founded opinions please with pro's and con's.

 

Cheers, Andy.

 

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17 minutes ago, Telstar said:

Should I have an external stair well (no sliding hatch) or some internal steps (with sliding hatch)?

 

External steps cause big problems with water removal.

Rain and lock leakages will fill up the stairwell, and how do you get rid of it ?

The bottom of your stairwell will be at around water level so cannot just run out, the normal method for these type of boats is to allow the water to run thru' into the bilges and then be pumped out, but that means (in reality) you will always have wet-bilges.

 

Once bought a boat that had an external stairway - it was a 'sunk-recovered' boat.

 

Leaves had collected in the bottom of the stairway blocking the drain into the bilges. The rain water just kept pouring down the steps, eventually over the door 'lip' and into the cabin, after a few weeks (apparently) the boat sank.

 

I'd strongly suggest that you stay with convention and have a central (or offset) door with internal steps.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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@Alan de Enfield beat me to it.

 

You want the bed clear of any sliding hatch to avoid wet bedding, so a side door with sliding hatch doesn't give you any extra space for the bed, assuming it is a 4' wide double, biased to the other side. A set of steps external to the cabin to avoid a slide hatch will need some way of draining rain water, which will probably have to be pumped overboard as the bottom steps will likely be below water level.

  • Greenie 1
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How tall are the people who are going to be using the boat? If there are bean poles around, then a central door and hatch means increased head room and fewer head injuries. Central is more traditional, if that is of importance to you. The internal stairs need to be steep enough to keep them well within the length of the hatch to again prevent bumped heads.

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5 minutes ago, Telstar said:

Thanks both.

Good points, internal steps it is.

Any further thoughts on central vs offset door?

 

Andy.

It depends on where the bed is.

If the bed is 'hard up to' the rear bulkhead it'll need to be offset to the opposite side of the bed.

If you walk down into a 'dressing area', wardrobes etc then it can be central.

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2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

How tall are the people who are going to be using the boat?

I'm the tallest at 6'2" Central sound favorite so far.

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If the bed is 'hard up to' the rear bulkhead it'll need to be offset to the opposite side of the bed.

If you walk down into a 'dressing area', wardrobes etc then it can be central.

I guess that's the dilemma,

Allocate bedroom space to accommodate the steps or go for an offset door.

 

Thanks very much, Andy.

 

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Our boat is a 40ft cruiser stern with a central door. When we visited the show boat it had an offset door which meant that we had to turn sideways to get through so we ordered a central door which was wider.

 

This does mean that we have to make the bed twice a day but you should be ok to leave the bed made up with a 45 ft boat.

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You might want to also think about:

- somewhere to put wet coats / muddy boots just inside the door, to keep the bedroom area dry / clean  (e.g. boots under the steps)

- safe storage near the hatch for the stuff you want easy access to when at the helm: windlass, phone, tea mug, guide books, ...

  • Greenie 1
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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

External steps cause big problems with water removal.

Rain and lock leakages will fill up the stairwell, and how do you get rid of it ?

The bottom of your stairwell will be at around water level so cannot just run out, the normal method for these type of boats is to allow the water to run thru' into the bilges and then be pumped out, but that means (in reality) you will always have wet-bilges.

 

Once bought a boat that had an external stairway - it was a 'sunk-recovered' boat.

 

Leaves had collected in the bottom of the stairway blocking the drain into the bilges. The rain water just kept pouring down the steps, eventually over the door 'lip' and into the cabin, after a few weeks (apparently) the boat sank.

 

I'd strongly suggest that you stay with convention and have a central (or offset) door with internal steps.

I go with internal steps for all the reasons above,plus I once crewed a boat with external steps to one side.

Getting on after casting off,I forgot about the stairwell and fell in twisting my ankle and grazing my shin.

It hurt!

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Hi Andy

 

You may remember, mine is cruiser stern with central door and steps on the outside. I also have used both sides of the steps for my gas lockers. Being single handed, this works well as it is easy to step up onto the roof, and also safely get back down.

 

I was surprised how much water does come down the steps, but in the engine bay, the builder made a box which is below the step and into this I fitted a bilge pump which is piped out through a skin fitting. The builder did check very carefully that everything we were doing satisfies boat safety. In the 2 years this has been set up, I've had no problems.

 

The negatives. If it is raining hard and I'm on the boat asleep, the bilge pump can go off several times, which does wake me up. Also, if I leave the boat for any amount of time over the autumn, when I go back I have to make sure to clean the leaves and other rubbish out from the bottom step, don't want this blocking the hole which could stop the rainwater draining into the bilge.

 

Kevin

35082720_10216202462309974_5918033783595991040_n.jpg

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2 hours ago, Telstar said:

Thanks Kevin,

Great picture.

I was thinking about rear gas lockers to open up the bow for seating.

So many descissions!

 

Andy.

I like the idea of rear gas lockers, as well as releasing more space at the bow, it would be much easier than changeovers and humping bottles on and off at the front. The extra bonus being seating on the stern, as well as steps up to the roof.

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3 hours ago, Telstar said:

Thanks Kevin,

Great picture.

I was thinking about rear gas lockers to open up the bow for seating.

So many descissions!

 

Andy.

Make sure the gas lockers are installed BEFORE the engine is fitted - if the engine can be fitted, it can be removed (when the necessity arises)

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Another vote for side/internal steps.  Under the top step live mooring pins, ammer, lazy line, similar.  Accessible from outside kneeling on the deck. Under the bottom lives tool box and 'engineering' bits. All clean and dry.  Steps sit alongside bottom of the bed with a wardrobe/electrics above.  Im doobious about even my cruiser stern - had a half flooded engine bay once due to leaves blocking the drain so I wouldn't sleep with external steps as well.  (Why not a mesh over external steps over winter to exclude leaves?). I've also got a gas locker to the other side so somewhere to keep the map book, coffee cup, climb on/off the roof, oh, and gas.

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I have a 'step,  under the central hatch, like a trad and sideways  turning steps from the central slide hatch. This is very similar to a lot of traditional boats but I have a cruiser stern outside. The advantages are, the wall behind the top step is somewhere to hang wet coats, and somewhere to take them on and off. Next going forward on the now side passage is a wardrobe then the bed. I would send pictures but can't get to the boat. It is unusual and entering the boat, like entering a trad, best done going backwards down the steps, easy once used to it.

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First topic in a while where I’ve really been set to think about my boat. I’ve got a external stair case of three steps down then three steps internally, the last outer step is a steel plate hinged so lifts up to look at engine, only good for looking as cruiser stern and boards up to work, I’d never thought of the step design as a bulge water drain away, I rarely get water on stern unless cruising in rain as I have a sliding steel roof section that seals it off. I’m 6’5 so often swing in the door rather than shuffle hence fitted many tfl grab bars to my bathroom. I’ve never had issue with falling down stairs as the whole stern has sides and bags doors around tiller so can’t step straight in. I use it as my everyday in out of boat when securing it and found it ok. It gives me a lot of space in bathroom and loads of space in engine bay to have all the electrics mounted/housed together. I’m now thinking for cruising safety to make a panel to gate off steps so I don’t bust an ankle from a badly timed jump of roof and also re checking I’m happy with bludgeon pump and clean the step surround more,  just my set up and it’s how it got the

boat but thanks for grey matter stimulation. 

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10 hours ago, Kendorr said:

Also, if I leave the boat for any amount of time over the autumn, when I go back I have to make sure to clean the leaves and other rubbish out from the bottom step, don't want this blocking the hole which could stop the rainwater draining into the bilge.

 

Surely the answer to this is to have a large hole in the steps, below the level of the door threshold, draining into the engine bilge, so that if the steps sump pump does get blocked (or the pump fails) then at least the rainwater goes the same place as that which leaks around the stern deck boards, and keeps the cabin bilge dry.

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