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Aire & Calder Breach


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14 hours ago, tree monkey said:

The thing about these questions is there are so many variables that there is never one answer, it's fairly obvious that trees don't generally cause issues in the UK because of how many trees exist alongside the canals and how few problems there appear to be directly related to trees.

 

It's likely the reduction in evaporation is balanced by the uptake by the roots, this is a guess by the way :) but I would suggest a reasonable one, the balance may change in hotter/dryer countries.

 

Direct damage by roots must happen, in fact there are 3 recently felled trees on my moorings but there doesn't seem to be any obvious water loss, maybe as the roots decay leaks may become obvious or maybe the gaps will self sel in some way.

I have been told by canal workers about leaks caused by rotting roots of dead trees, but the danger from those leaks could well be related to where they grew (The trees, not the canal workers). Embankments, which could also include canals on the side of a valley where the towpath is on a bank of earth thrown up during construction of the canal, could possibly be the place of highest risk from root damage. The height of the water table would also affect the problem, as would the type of soil, as some soils hold water naturally. Trees in such locations would probably be low risk. That said, historical photos do suggest that tree control was undertaken routinely by canal workers.

 

The photo is of Ludwig's Canal in Bavaria, and shows a major embankment on the summit level. Right from the start it seems to have been planted with fruit trees, though I am unsure about whether this was to stabilise the embankment or to feed the boatmen and their families. Fruit trees do seem to be more numerous alongside all forms of transport routes on the European mainland than here.

1993 Ludwig's Kanal 003.jpg

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13 hours ago, XLD said:

30 to 40 yards from the tree?
Is that a printing error?

I thought tap roots went down🤔

I think you are correct on tap roots going down, certainly every definition I have read of tap root says going down.   With regard to spread I remember reading about 40 years ago about vine roots blocking a drain into the thames.   The tree in question proved to be several hundred yards away.   Fair enough I am sure the spread was aided by the drain but it does show they can spread large distances.

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28 minutes ago, Pluto said:

 

 

The photo is of Ludwig's Canal in Bavaria, and shows a major embankment on the summit level. Right from the start it seems to have been planted with fruit trees, though I am unsure about whether this was to stabilise the embankment or to feed the boatmen and their families. Fruit trees do seem to be more numerous alongside all forms of transport routes on the European mainland than here.

 

 

Why would they build an embankment on the summit level?  usually a cutting on the summit. Where does the water come from? Pumped or rain?

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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23 minutes ago, Pluto said:

Right from the start it seems to have been planted with fruit trees, though I am unsure about whether this was to stabilise the embankment or to feed the boatmen and their families. Fruit trees do seem to be more numerous alongside all forms of transport routes on the European mainland than here.

 

I wonder if the reason could be similar to many of our WW2 airfields.

 

On the airfields around us (Bomber County) there are many, many fruit trees (primarily Apple) around the ends of the runways, and 'holding areas',

According to the local Airfield Historical group it is because the Pilots & crew of the Lancasters were given fruit before take off, as they taxied out they would eat the fruit and throw the 'cores' out of the windows just before take off.

 

In Autumn I regularly walk along the perimeter-track of the airfield and get loads of eating apples.

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21 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

 

Why would they build an embankment on the summit level?  usually a cutting on the summit. Where does the water come from? Pumped or rain?

Might depend on the length of the summit pound. Could enable a much longer level before the first locks down.

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51 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

 

Why would they build an embankment on the summit level?  usually a cutting on the summit. Where does the water come from? Pumped or rain?

In some cases the most of the summit level is in cutting to avoid more locks and water supply problems of a higher shorter summit. Elsewhere a longer summit pound may have lengths of embankment and cutting (and maybe tunnel) as the single pound level averages out the rises and falls in ground level along its length.

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58 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I think you are correct on tap roots going down, certainly every definition I have read of tap root says going down.   With regard to spread I remember reading about 40 years ago about vine roots blocking a drain into the thames.   The tree in question proved to be several hundred yards away.   Fair enough I am sure the spread was aided by the drain but it does show they can spread large distances.

Roots will follow a water source a long way, particularly when inside a drainage pipe of some type, just to add roots rarely actually initially break a pipe but will follow a source of water from a weep or hole and later growth and expansion of the root will cause further damage.

 

The idealized diagrams of trees with their nicely balanced roots matching the crown above is just that "idealized" and rarely true in the real world.

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15 minutes ago, Orwellian said:

Yes all very interesting but what's the current situation at the breach?

I have heard that they have returned to the breach today to continue the repair.  The canal is still down.  Goole is still isolated by the defective emergency stop gates and levels are still low.  More pumps have been added to try and overcome the leakage and get the level up in Goole.  The  Docks are still out of action I believe until the emergency gates are open as they can't replace water lost through the tidal locks.

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1 hour ago, Joe Bourke said:

I have heard that they have returned to the breach today to continue the repair.  The canal is still down.  Goole is still isolated by the defective emergency stop gates and levels are still low.  More pumps have been added to try and overcome the leakage and get the level up in Goole.  The  Docks are still out of action I believe until the emergency gates are open as they can't replace water lost through the tidal locks.

Thanks for that.

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17 minutes ago, Jerra said:

No facebook link is of any use to me, I just don't go there.

There is nothing worse than when I google a pub or some other business and all I find is their facebook page. They lose my trade as if they cannot have their own basic webpage this day and age I cant be bothered to go there, setting a web page up is easy peasy even for a dinosaur like myself.

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This afternoon (Monday) there's at least two ships in the docks that weren't there a couple of days ago. And there's pumping going on round the chocolate fireguard stop gates. The level in Viking Marina this afternoon was half an inch higher than it was on Boxing Day.

 

IMG_20201228_145022339sm.jpg

IMG_20201228_145841311_HDRsm.jpg

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19 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

There is nothing worse than when I google a pub or some other business and all I find is their facebook page. They lose my trade as if they cannot have their own basic webpage this day and age I cant be bothered to go there, setting a web page up is easy peasy even for a dinosaur like myself.

But not as easy to keep up to date as a Facebook page or as cheap

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36 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But not as easy to keep up to date as a Facebook page or as cheap

If a business can't afford about £10 a month less VAT for their own web and email address I would question its viability or management ability. Unless the business is trying to run an online selling operation what with the need to keep it up to date? How often do contact details change?

 

Best thing i ever did getting my own domain even though now I don't really need it. Dead easy to swap internet providers and keep your email content away from Microsoft & Google.

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6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If a business can't afford about £10 a month less VAT for their own web and email address I would question its viability or management ability. Unless the business is trying to run an online selling operation what with the need to keep it up to date? How often do contact details change?

 

Best thing i ever did getting my own domain even though now I don't really need it. Dead easy to swap internet providers and keep your email content away from Microsoft & Google.

But with a pub type business then things like the daily menu can be updated as easy as adding a post here. Unfortunately my email is now with Google

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My link was to a Facebook group.  It is a group of local Drone pilots.  Anything of interest, if conforming to their rules and regulations in our area, they go and film with their drones. They don't do it for money.

There are probably millions of interesting groups on Facebook.  I for one am a great fan. 

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Not much use - it says make an account.

A notable post on another Facebook page is this pic of Pollington taken on 23rd Dec by David Armitage. Anyone still think bank staff are a waste of money?
image.png.e7f7419d996b565af96aacf243af260d.png
 

Edited by Midnight
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1 hour ago, Midnight said:

A notable post on another Facebook page is this pic of Pollington taken on 23rd Dec by David Armitage. Anyone still think bank staff are a waste of money?
image.png.e7f7419d996b565af96aacf243af260d.png
 

I thought there was a big concrete bit to the left of it.

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