Aire & Calder Breach

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

I think he does realise,but is constrained by the bean counters.

When I worked in schools and public buildings the cleaning staff were on "spot cleaning".

This was simply looking into a room,and only cleaning it if it looked necessary.If it looked ok,then leave it and on to the next room.

CRT do similar,in that if something is broken,they fix it,but routine maintainance they rarely do.

I have seen a CRT bloke a couple of times on the Huddersfield Narrow and Broad greasing the paddle mechanism and clearing rubbish from the lock bywashes,but many of the lock gates leak badly resulting in low pounds.

 

It is not the bean counters (who only respond to being told what to count) but electors (or more often red top media owners) who dictate to politicians. The short sightedness is in those whose concern about the immediate need for re-election outweighs any more far sighted view or even ethical considerations.

 

I am sure that the CaRT Board, and its managers, would be highly delighted if they were given a large enough pot of gold that they could proactively maintain the canal network to a much higher standard but that is just not going to happen. some of the newer strategies are not about doing a perfect job, or even the best possible, but keeping with externally imposed budget limits that inevitably need compromises.

 

BTW, can so0meone remind me of just when was the golden age when the canals were maintained so well that they never failed?

[magpie patrick]

19 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

More here.

 

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/live-west-cowick-flooding-updates-4817590

 

 

 

A lot of water but a curious breach - it looks to be flowing under the towpath and then emerging in the foreground of the picture, before doing a U turn and pouring into another watercourse. The failure isn't where we can see water, but somewhere under the towpath? 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

A lot of water but a curious breach - it looks to be flowing under the towpath and then emerging in the foreground of the picture, before doing a U turn and pouring into another watercourse. The failure isn't where we can see water, but somewhere under the towpath? 

Another photo.

 

 

[Up-Side-Down]

30 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

A lot of water but a curious breach - it looks to be flowing under the towpath and then emerging in the foreground of the picture, before doing a U turn and pouring into another watercourse. The failure isn't where we can see water, but somewhere under the towpath? 

Whether of relevance to not, I believe there is culvert at about this point carrying water under the A&C from the field dykes to the north of the canal. Immediately to the south of the navigation there is a pump house (the corner of which can just be seen in the picture) which lifts the water into the adjacent Dutch River. https://www.google.com/maps/place/East+Cowick,+Goole/@53.675505,-0.9974573,1646m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487919a750535d11:0xec1bfdef48bcff71!8m2!3d53.681824!4d-1.0027219 

[Victor Vectis]

2 hours ago, Midnight said:

When will Mr Parry & Co realise the cost of this kind of devastation is more than the cost of keeping in-house experienced bank staff who can spot potential problems before they become major and very expensive problems. 

 

Such is life in a world ruled by accountants rather than people with hands on experience.

 

?

[Tracy D'arth]

Own up!  Which Vandals dug up the tow path?  Or was it a careless boater tying his boat to the piling?

 

I suppose that C&RT do not have any insurance for breaches, the government insures nothing.  The insurance company would not pay out anyway, citing "failure to maintain" as a get out.

 

And they would be dead right as we all know.

[Tim Lewis]

4 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

A lot of water but a curious breach - it looks to be flowing under the towpath and then emerging in the foreground of the picture, before doing a U turn and pouring into another watercourse. The failure isn't where we can see water, but somewhere under the towpath? 

Not exactly a major breach then.

 

[Alway Swilby]

1 hour ago, Tim Lewis said:

Not exactly a major breach then.

 

It's drained a 9 mile long and very wide and deep pound. The pound contains three marinas and many boats are on the bottom or listing. These boats are in danger of being damaged or sunk when the level rises again. It's also drained Goole docks thereby closing the port to shipping, both domestic and international. The recently re-introduced sand barge traffic to Leeds is halted as is the oil barge traffic to Rotherham. The the big Southfield reservoir is also on that pound and been drained. Housing in the area was in danger of flooding which has only been averted by swift action by the authorities deploying many pumps. Many fields are under water. The breach itself might not be major but it's consequences certainly are.

[fanshaft]

18 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

It's drained a 9 mile long and very wide and deep pound. The pound contains three marinas and many boats are on the bottom or listing. These boats are in danger of being damaged or sunk when the level rises again. It's also drained Goole docks thereby closing the port to shipping, both domestic and international. The recently re-introduced sand barge traffic to Leeds is halted as is the oil barge traffic to Rotherham. The the big Southfield reservoir is also on that pound and been drained. Housing in the area was in danger of flooding which has only been averted by swift action by the authorities deploying many pumps. Many fields are under water. The breach itself might not be major but it's consequences certainly are.

Fortunately the final sand delivery to Leeds prior to the Christmas shut down was made prior to the breach as there were good stocks at Knostrop. Hopefully all will be back to normal by the time further deliveries are required in the new year.  

[TheBiscuits]

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Quote

Overnight, the flow of water leaving the navigation has slowed considerably. pic.twitter.com/HxIZncufUY

Is that because there is none left in the canal and reservoir? If so, it isn't really an achievement.

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Is that because there is none left in the canal and reservoir? If so, it isn't really an achievement.

 

I did wonder exactly the same, but decided I was being too cynical and didn't comment on it.

 

It appears I wasn't being too cynical - I have company!

[Midnight]

7 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Having been involved with many very clear "spend now, save more later" options in the military, I can tell you that even the biggest "no brainers" recognised as saving a fortune in the future have to be rejected when the organisation has insufficient funds in the present.

 

Just think how many members here post about issues with their boats that would be so easily solved or avoided by adequately funding their boat purchase and upkeep in the first place. Hard to do if they simply don't have the spare cash.

 

The argument doesn't hold water (a bit like the canal system these days) because at the end of the day the cost is way more and has to be met from somewhere. Perhaps if CaRT got rid of the bean counters, marketing and media people they could divert some budget into more bank staff.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

8 minutes ago, Midnight said:

The argument doesn't hold water (a bit like the canal system these days) because at the end of the day the cost is way more and has to be met from somewhere. Perhaps if CaRT got rid of the bean counters, marketing and media people they could divert some budget into more bank staff.

CaRT's money is kept in a tea chest in Richard Parry's office. The DEFRA grant goes in there each April. Your license fees go in there when you pay them. Unfortunately, the bean counters, marketing and media people also work in the same building, so they get first dibs on the contents of the tea chest. By the time the maintenance people get in there isn't any left. It is down to the stale old tea leaves in the bottom.

Jen

Edited December 22, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Jon57]

47 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

By the time the maintenance people get in there isn't any left. It is down to the stale old tea leaves in the bottom.

Don’t forget the tea chest ? really is a sad state of affairs.???

[nbfiresprite]

Goole port is not drained as claimed, Other than access to the canal which has been sealed off by the flood gate between

Breedon Goole Concrete Plant and the railway bridge, the port is operating according to  Associated British Ports, the owners

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

Goole port is not drained as claimed, Other than access to the canal which has been sealed off by the flood gate between

Breedon Goole Concrete Plant and the railway bridge, the port is operating according to  Associated British Ports, the owners

I also found that comment extremely hard to understand.

 

There is even a photo in this thread of the gates closed with red lights illuminated.

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

Goole port is not drained as claimed, Other than access to the canal which has been sealed off by the flood gate between

Breedon Goole Concrete Plant and the railway bridge, the port is operating according to  Associated British Ports, the owners

http://www.humber.com/admin/content/files/Notice to Mariners/H_ 179-2020 NTM .pdf

 

NOTICE TO MARINERS
No. H. 179/2020
RIVER OUSE
GOOLE DOCKS – OPERATIONAL CONSTRAINTS DUE TO WATER LEVELS

MARINERS AND AGENTS ARE HEREBY ADVISED that until further notice that all vessels/craft are unable to pen in and out of Goole Docks.

 

This is due to operational issues with water levels caused by an external incident beyond ABP control.

[ditchcrawler]

Photo on Facebook of C&RT helicoptering materials in to the site of the breach

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Photo on Facebook of C&RT helicoptering materials in to the site of the breach

 

Twitter video of it ten posts up ...

[Up-Side-Down]

5 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

Goole port is not drained as claimed, Other than access to the canal which has been sealed off by the flood gate between

Breedon Goole Concrete Plant and the railway bridge, the port is operating according to  Associated British Ports, the owners

I understand that as of yesterday there were no ships in Goole Docks and the level was down 2 – 3ft. Ocean and Victoria Locks use a fair dose of water which would normally be replaced by water from the 120 acre Southfield Reservoir via the canal. With the canal closed west of the docks and, if reports on here are correct, the reservoir drained ABP have a bit of a potential issue on their hands.

[PeterF]

At least when it comes to refilling it, there should be a good flow on the River Aire to run down from Ferrybridge. But it will still take a fair amount of time.

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, Midnight said:

The argument doesn't hold water (a bit like the canal system these days) because at the end of the day the cost is way more and has to be met from somewhere.

You may not think the idea holds water, but it is what happens in reality when budgets are finite. How can it not: you simply can't spend funds you absolutely don't have, no matter what savings this might generate in the future.  This is not to say CRT are necessarily in that position or are allocating the funding they have wisely; I'm not privacy to their finances.

 

(This is also a separate concept to "gearing", borrowing now to reap bigger rewards later.)

[Alway Swilby]

1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said:

Goole port is not drained as claimed, Other than access to the canal which has been sealed off by the flood gate between

Breedon Goole Concrete Plant and the railway bridge, the port is operating according to  Associated British Ports, the owners

Well, our boat is moored in Viking Marina which is on the docks side of those gates so should be protected by them. I went there yesterday and the level was about 3 feet down. The step from the pontoon to the stern deck is normally level but now it's a very big step down. There's plenty of boats sitting on the bottom and some listing badly. The gates you talk of are leaking badly as are the Victoria Lock gates out onto the Ouse. We went to have a look at the gates and you can see lots of "boiling" underneath them. I thought there was some means of pumping from the Ouse up to the docks but if there is it has not been put into use. We have friends who are there today and they say the level is if anything a bit lower than yesterday.

[Up-Side-Down]

55 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

You may not think the idea holds water, but it is what happens in reality when budgets are finite. How can it not: you simply can't spend funds you absolutely don't have, no matter what savings this might generate in the future.  This is not to say CRT are necessarily in that position or are allocating the funding they have wisely; I'm not privacy to their finances.

 

(This is also a separate concept to "gearing", borrowing now to reap bigger rewards later.)

I seem to remember that there were three types of gearing when I studied economics: high gearing; low gearing and Boom. I'm afraid that I'm not able to elaborate much on the concepts as it was all a long time ago .......