Responsible or Irresponsible Tier 3 Cruising?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Athy said:

I wonder when they became "Garden Centres". When I were a lad they were "nurseries". Perhaps they were renamed to avoid confusion with nurseries where small children are looked after.

I think the name stems from the fact that they now sell much more than young plants and seeds.

 

The average one carries a huge range of garden related items now.

 

We still have a local one that calls itself a 'nursery' though. It's on a much smaller scale than most 'Garden centres'. (Even though there is a pic. on the web site in which it refers to itself as a garden centre).

 

http://www.longbecknurseries.co.uk/

 

[tree monkey]

8 minutes ago, Athy said:

Is it because many people buy things, such as seed potatoes and onion sets, there from which they grow their own food?

 

I wonder when they became "Garden Centres". When I were a lad they were "nurseries". Perhaps they were renamed to avoid confusion with nurseries where small children are looked after.

Garden centres sell stuff that have a vague link to "outside leisure" which includes plants grown elsewhere and shipped in.

Nurseries grow plants, some have a garden centre attached, my first full time job was in an old school nursery, with a small garden centre attached  the boss did not tolerate fools which included most of the customers 

[David Schweizer]

peripheral

9 minutes ago, Athy said:

Is it because many people buy things, such as seed potatoes and onion sets, there from which they grow their own food?

 

I wonder when they became "Garden Centres". When I were a lad they were "nurseries". Perhaps they were renamed to avoid confusion with nurseries where small children are looked after.

The  difference is quite clear. Nurseries grow plants, often with plants that are grown by other nurseries. Many still exist, we have one near us. Garden centres do not normally grow anything, but sell plants grown by others, along with loads of other peripheral non-gardening stuff

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Garden centres sell stuff that have a vague link to "outside leisure" which includes plants grown elsewhere and shipped in.

Nurseries grow plants, some have a garden centre attached, 

That's an interesting distinction which hadn't occurred to me. Of the two local establishments which we go in, one certainly grows its own plants, I think the other (larger) one does too but I couldn't be sure. The smaller one (Golding's) also sells pet and farm animal feed, so I suppose it's somewhere between a nursery and (another sub-division) a country store. The larger one (Skylark) does indeed have a broader range in stock, though we rarely look at anything apart from plants, garden tools and weed/slug killer! So I suppose that's a genuine garden centre.

4 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

peripheral

The  difference is quite clear. Nurseries grow plants, often with plants that are grown by other nurseries. Many still exist, we have one near us. Garden centres do not normally grow anything, but sell plants grown by others, along with loads of other peripheral non-gardening stuff

Roughly what our simian friend said, yes, so the both of you are probably right.

So, nurseries supply garden centres as well as selling directly to the public.

[David Schweizer]

47 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

If you are talking about The Foxes then video and film production is currently allowed.

Possibly.

You seem to be misunderstanding the point I was making. I was reflecting the question raised by Dora, which asked   "If that's how they make their livelihoods, then what else do you suggest?  ... " My post was attempting to relate their position to that of other people who make their living from "non essential" activities which are currently not allowed such as Hairdressing etc. You clearly believe that cruising the canals to make films is permitted, whilst many others feel that they should adhere to the same cruising guidance as followed by others. Film making may be allowed, but I would be interested to learn why you believe filming from a boat, which is cruising in breach of the guidance is allowed.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by David Schweizer

[Jerra]

23 minutes ago, Athy said:

Is it because many people buy things, such as seed potatoes and onion sets, there from which they grow their own food?

 

I wonder when they became "Garden Centres". When I were a lad they were "nurseries". Perhaps they were renamed to avoid confusion with nurseries where small children are looked after.

We have a couple of nurseries near us.  Both grow their own plants which has always been as far as I know what separates a Nursery from a Garden Centre.   Garden Centres buy in from Nurseries and abroad.   I have a friend has a nursery and he made the immortal quote "I;ll tell you how to make money out of Primulas!  Don't grow them."   It turned out that what Garden Centres are prepared to pay didn't make Primulas a cost effective option for him.

Just now, David Schweizer said:

 You clearly believe that cruising the canals to make films is permitted, whilst many others feel that they should adhere to the same cruising guidance as followed by others. Film making may be allowed, but there are very strick regulations governing filming at the moment.

Unlike, say pubs, at least Vloggers who make their living from Youtube will at least still have some money coming in, perhaps even more than usual, as folk stuck at home watch their Vlogs.

[Jerra]

10 minutes ago, Athy said:

 

So, nurseries supply garden centres as well as selling directly to the public.

One of the two nurseries I mention in a previous post does not sell to the public the other has an almost conventional garden centre where he sells plants etc.

[tree monkey]

4 minutes ago, Jerra said:

One of the two nurseries I mention in a previous post does not sell to the public the other has an almost conventional garden centre where he sells plants etc.

As a youf my local area had an embarrassment of proper small nurseries, including specialist growers many of whom were what could be called characters, my favourite was a rose grower in an old walled veg garden that bloke knew his stuff.

Unfortunately most are long gone 

[Jerra]

Just now, tree monkey said:

As a youf my local area had an embarrassment of proper small nurseries, including specialist growers many of whom were what could be called characters, my favourite was a rose grower in an old walled veg garden that bloke knew his stuff.

Unfortunately most are long gone 

Cheaper and easier to import from Holland!   The big advantage of a local nursery is that you know if it survives their conditions it will survive yours.   Also you know it hasn't been forced so that it is showing flowers a good while before it will next year in your garden.

[Dr Bob]

Garden Centres are deemed not to be essential in Scotland and have been forced to close.

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

But that is the opposite to the point I was making. I was suggesting that if they make their living from a "non essential" service, they are currently not allowed to operate their business.

 

If it's not allowed, it's not allowed.

 

 

 

 

I would question your use of 'non essential services'.

They are running a business. Non essential businesses dont have to close but their customer facing shops etc do. I am sure they can argue they can carry on filming and screening videos but then a) as said previously, have they got the right trading license/insurance to operate? or b) is it morally right.....they didnt break the rules in the last lockdown by staying put except when moving for water and other services.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, tree monkey said:

Garden centres sell stuff that have a vague link to "outside leisure" which includes plants grown elsewhere and shipped in.

Nurseries grow plants, some have a garden centre attached, my first full time job was in an old school nursery, with a small garden centre attached  the boss did not tolerate fools which included most of the customers 

Ours sells everything from Birthday cards to electrical items with a small section selling plants etc. https://www.cherry-lane.co.uk/

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by ditchcrawler

[LadyG]

On 19/12/2020 at 16:39, big d said:

I’ve not watched their vlog, but I work making tv and was amazed to be told that during all the lock downs “tv was considered key workers” so we were able to keep making shows that were possible during lockdowns, mainly quizzes and chat shows with no audience. So if they have an actual crew with them then it will have permission. I thought it was ridiculous, there’s been so many outbreaks in tv land that have been suppressed as people need their strictly or eastenders to watch. Some one even said to me that we were being clapped for on Thursdays! I don’t agree but as I said if they have a crew and it’s for broadcast that generates income then it would be permitted.

They make their own vlogs, no TV crew, Shaun has history of respiratory problems, so theywould have been carefull.

Robbie Cummings (no relation to thePM's ex pal), has had his TV series postponed. He has been making vlogs, for his Youtube channel, I have no objection to that, it's their work, and it makes up most of their income. People can't live without income. They don't have pensions or get paid regardless,  unlike many on here. They likely will have business insurance, in this litigenous era. It does not cost much. We don't go around asking random people if tbey have business insurance, it's ridiculous to nit pick like this.

There are loads of people who work in 'non essential' jobs, as far as I know they are allowed to keep working, their journeys to and fro must be essential. I think they are the lucky ones, to be honest.

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by LadyG

[David Schweizer]

1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

I would question your use of 'non essential services'.

They are running a business. Non essential businesses dont have to close but their customer facing shops etc do. I am sure they can argue they can carry on filming and screening videos but then a) as said previously, have they got the right trading license/insurance to operate? or b) is it morally right.....they didnt break the rules in the last lockdown by staying put except when moving for water and other services.

Fair enough, I accept that point. However, my point is to draw attention to the similarities between not being able to work because lockdown rules forbid face to face operations, and not being able to work because CaRT regulations currently forbid moving one's boat during lockdown except for "essential movement".  If they are filming from a moored boat, or whilst undertaking an "essential movement" that is fine.  However, various posters above have suggested that this is not the case.

[restlessnomad]

both vloggers and instagram influencers are allowed to work... some even allowed to travel overseas if that's part of their job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-55546760

[LadyG]

32 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Fair enough, I accept that point. However, my point is to draw attention to the similarities between not being able to work because lockdown rules forbid face to face operations, and not being able to work because CaRT regulations currently forbid moving one's boat during lockdown except for "essential movement".  If they are filming from a moored boat, or whilst undertaking an "essential movement" that is fine.  However, various posters above have suggested that this is not the case.

I don't know why you are so concerned about two individuals who live and work together on their boat, they are in the public eye, and are perfectly aware of criticisms from all and sundry,

In the Tier3 lockdown, I think  CRT re-instated the 14 day ruling for cc boats in spite of government guidelines saying 'stay in your village'.

If The Foxes are now in Tier 4 they will not be travelling except for essentials.

If you remember the First lockdown, what happened was that lots of boats congregated at Services, but some, like Foxes could have moved instead, as the Services are not always close to shopping, and moorings not always particularly near to Services.

 

I think there were about four CRT days in December between 'you should travel', and 'you must not travel'

 

Most of these vloggers are six to twelve weeks in front of their newly uploaded vlogs. Not all vlogs are travel only, other subjects are covered.

Trading licences are not needed for these guys surely, they do sell customised goods, mugs, hats, and socks, but not from their boat. Anyway, we are not policing that surely, the CRT would hardly miss an opportunity! I wonder what they think of this tbread!

Edited January 6, 2021 by LadyG

[David Schweizer]

24 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I don't know why you are so concerned about two individuals who live and work together on their boat, they are in the public eye, and are perfectly aware of criticisms from all and sundry,

In the Tier3 lockdown, I think  CRT re-instated the 14 day ruling for cc boats in spite of government guidelines saying 'stay in your village'.

If The Foxes are now in Tier 4 they will not be travelling except for essentials.

If you remember the First lockdown, what happened was that lots of boats congregated at Services, but some, like Foxes could have moved instead, as the Services are not always close to shopping, and moorings not always particularly near to Services.

 

I think there were about four CRT days in December between 'you should travel', and 'you must not travel'

Most of these vloggers are six to twelve weeks in front of their newly oploaded vlogs. 

I have no specific interested in the individuals concerned, and it was not me that started this thread naming them.. My involvement was merely to draw attention to the discrepancy between Dora asking "If that's how they make their livelihoods, then what else do you suggest?"  and the similar financial problems which other people are facing because of lockdown. Perhaps I should have merely answered "The same as all the other people who are being denied their livelihood because of lockdown restrictions.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by David Schweizer

[Guest]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

You seem to be misunderstanding the point I was making. I was reflecting the question raised by Dora, which asked   "If that's how they make their livelihoods, then what else do you suggest?  ... " My post was attempting to relate their position to that of other people who make their living from "non essential" activities which are currently not allowed such as Hairdressing etc. You clearly believe that cruising the canals to make films is permitted, whilst many others feel that they should adhere to the same cruising guidance as followed by others. Film making may be allowed, but I would be interested to learn why you believe filming from a boat, which is cruising in breach of the guidance is allowed.

 

 

 

 

How do the people filming the likes of Country File get to their filming location?

 

If its work you can travel.

 

Its not rocket science.

[LadyG]

If I was still working, and needed the money, I would not stay at home because my business did not require me to contact customers face to face. The customers needed my services and I needed their money!

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

But that is the opposite to the point I was making. I was suggesting that if they make their living from a "non essential" service, they are currently not allowed to operate their business.

 

If it's not allowed, it's not allowed.

 

 

 

 

Only non-essential shops are suspended, as I read it, not 'work'. 

 

I repeat, how do we know when each vlog was actually filmed? In general, they are not specific but the time at Cheddleton did seem to be back at the time of year when it (occasionally) opens to the public. 

[David Schweizer]

People are clearly unable to understand the points I am seeking to make, or are deliberately avoiding them. It is apparent to me that any further explanation will either not be read or not be understood, consequently, I am bowing out, and you can all compete to have the last word.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by David Schweizer

[Tonka]

As a top doctor recently said

Everyone who breaks the covid rules has blood on their hands

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

People are clearly unable to understand the points I am seeking to make, or are deliberately avoiding them. It is apparent to me that any further explanation will either not be read or not be understood, consequently, I am bowing out, and you can all compete to have the last word.

 

 

Perhaps you are not explaining your point clearly enough?

[matty40s]

26 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

 

 

I repeat, how do we know when each vlog was actually filmed? 

I look at the vegetation and trees, when they came past here they were probably 5/6 weeks ahead of the videos.

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

 

If The Foxes are now in Tier 4 they will not be travelling except for essentials.

Have you missed the news, the whole country is now Tier 5 “Lockdown” so we’ll wait and see if they move, I imagine they will as they don’t seam that bothered with any restrictions. Tonka has a good point.

 When will people realise these two guys are not bothered with COVID restrictions it’s all about them, their Vlogs, Amazon Channel and image. They’ve only had the boat 18 month and from day one it’s all been about making a living. 

9 minutes ago, Tonka said:

As a top doctor recently said

Everyone who breaks the covid rules has blood on their hands