Responsible or Irresponsible Tier 3 Cruising?

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Jerra said:

Does that apply if you are uncomfortable (as a house dweller) having to exercise in the local park?

 

Just being a sort of devils advocate.

 

I do this.

 

I could set off from my door to exercise my dog. But I dont. The foot paths are narrow and they take me to some path in the 'open' countryside which is equally narrow hemmed in by bushes and trees. Its impossible not to pass very close to other walkers.

 

So rather than do that I drive to one of three places where I can get out of the car and immediately be in a wide open space and thus much less of a risk to myself and others. They are all within two or three miles. I believe in Scotland doing this would be against the guidlines/rules as you have to excercise from your front door. I personally think that is madness as forcing me to walk to the open space past others on narrow paths is obviously a greater risk.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, sirweste said:

Well said Matty, this comment fully sums it up for me.

 

There have been many things that have gone wrong during this whole pandemic response, but ***** stretching the rules for their own selfish reasons really does **** me off.

 

Charming.

Edited January 28, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[doratheexplorer]

2 hours ago, matty40s said:

 

Unless you have been on a different planet to the rest of us, over 100k UK human beings have now lost their lives to this horrible virus. On a daily basis, my sister watches many people die in front of her(QEII Birmigham), holds their hands and talks to them as their relatives cant come near. She talks to me when she can, when she feels able to, and cries because people will not follow the rules or guidance. Does this make me angry, yes, more careful , yes.

 

You say..Going to lengths to justify their movements...and even then you question why they went up Napton for water...

 

STAY HOME-SAVE LIVES-PROTECT THE NHS

 

That's all it was for 99% of people during the first lockdown. ....not working out how far they could cruise knowing that MrPlod wouldnt have a car on the corner of the canal to turn them back.

Even on 23rd May, this was the official guidance..

Key boating milestones

This week you can:

Undertake short boating trips only– avoiding using locks and any staff-operated structures if possible

 

If you also remember, most media stopped along with all sport, including Countryfile outside broadcasts,  Eastenders filming, even the bloody Archers...until safe practices were put in place and Government restrictions were softened. 

 

This thread had died until the Foxes complained to the Forum that apparently there were inaccuracies and falsehoods. 

With your kids both being in the NHS, I cant understand your attitude, other than you being the permanent devils advocate you love to be.

 

The Covid caught up with the Foxes eventually hospitalising one , did they deserve it, NO, nobody deserved it, but how many people caught it from them on the towpaths local shops and maybe boatyards whilst they were moving before they knew they had it???

How many people could they have transferred it to up and down the canal if they had it asymptomatically the first lockdown???

 

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but yes, this IS about Covid19 and 2 Vloggers that just dont get it, even after having suffered it.

https://twitter.com/BylineTV/status/1354124849053052930?s=20

 

I had been taking a live and let live approach to these Foxes, but you've persuaded me here.  People are far too keen to work out how they can stretch the guidance to its utter limit, while still smugly claiming to be following the rules.

[doratheexplorer]

 

 

https://twitter.com/FoxesAfloat/status/1354736438563270657?s=20

[Jerra]

6 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

I do this.

 

I could set off from my door to exercise my dog. But I dont. The foot paths are narrow and they take me to some path in the 'open' countryside which is equally narrow hemmed in by bushes and trees. Its impossible not to pass very close to other walkers.

 

So rather than do that I drive to one of three places where I can get out of the car and immediately be in a wide open space and thus much less of a risk to myself and others. They are all within two or three miles. I believe in Scotland doing this would be against the guidlines/rules as you have to excercise from your front door. I personally think that is madness as forcing me to walk to the open space past others on narrow paths is obviously a greater risk.

IIRC in Scotland you have to stay within 5 miles of home.   

 

Having checked the official website you don't have to start and finish at your front door.   It says:

 

Travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a socially distanced way. To minimise the risk of spread of coronavirus it is crucial that we all avoid unnecessary travel.

• local outdoor recreation, sport or exercise, walking, cycling, golf, or running that starts and finishes at the same place (which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area) as long as you abide by the rules on meeting other households

[Guest]

Just now, Jerra said:

IIRC in Scotland you have to stay within 5 miles of home.   

 

Having checked the official website you don't have to start and finish at your front door.   It says:

 

Travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a socially distanced way. To minimise the risk of spread of coronavirus it is crucial that we all avoid unnecessary travel.

• local outdoor recreation, sport or exercise, walking, cycling, golf, or running that starts and finishes at the same place (which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area) as long as you abide by the rules on meeting other households

 

I suspect then it was a proposal by the wee Scots lassy rather than something she actually brought in. But its pretty much common sense that forcing people to excercise from their front door does not suit every situation.

[PD1964]

37 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I had been taking a live and let live approach to these Foxes, but you've persuaded me here.  People are far too keen to work out how they can stretch the guidance to its utter limit, while still smugly claiming to be following the rules.

 

32 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

 

https://twitter.com/FoxesAfloat/status/1354736438563270657?s=20

They seam to have made up their own Essential travel/reason to move list as it is different to CaRT’s advice on travel. 
 

Edited January 28, 2021 by PD1964

[Chagall]

22 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Charming.

Why did you feel the need to highlight sirweste's post with the pious reply "Charming" ?   Many of the replies you give are considerably less charming. I note you (or a mod) placed asterisks when you quoted him, did you also report it I wonder? 

 

It was a heartfelt reply from sirweste even if it broke one of the prissy rules because it's a family forum, it could have easily been reformatted. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Chagall said:

Why did you feel the need to highlight sirweste's post with the pious reply "Charming" ?   Many of the replies you give are considerably less charming. I note you (or a mod) placed asterisks when you quoted him, did you also report it I wonder? 

 

It was a heartfelt reply from sirweste even if it broke one of the prissy rules because it's a family forum, it could have easily been reformatted. 

 

You may not find some of my posts 'charming' but I can normally make a point without resorting to infantile four letter expletives.

 

 

 

 

[Phil.]

15 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I had been taking a live and let live approach to these Foxes, but you've persuaded me here.  People are far too keen to work out how they can stretch the guidance to its utter limit, while still smugly claiming to be following the rules.

This is the problem with bad law, it is full of holes and can be subject to different interpretations. What is essential to one person, could be trivial to another.

[sirweste]

15 minutes ago, Chagall said:

Why did you feel the need to highlight sirweste's post with the pious reply "Charming" ?   Many of the replies you give are considerably less charming. I note you (or a mod) placed asterisks when you quoted him, did you also report it I wonder? 

Off topic sorry:

Yeah my post broke a rule about swearing I didn't realise exisited. Anyhow, I used the words deliberately to emphasise my thoughts on the matter. I don't swear often on a public forum, when I do I mean it as a means of expression.

I didn't feel the "charming" post warranted a reply tbh, but as it's be brought up, I found Nomad's reply about lecturing to Matty's extremely heartfelt post was very distasteful and feel you should be ashamed of it. But, you didn't use any naughty words.

 

Every now and then I pop back in this forum and each time it's the same toxic people making the whole place feel hostile and unwelcoming. 

[Dave123]

3 hours ago, matty40s said:

 

Unless you have been on a different planet to the rest of us, over 100k UK human beings have now lost their lives to this horrible virus. On a daily basis, my sister watches many people die in front of her(QEII Birmigham), holds their hands and talks to them as their relatives cant come near. She talks to me when she can, when she feels able to, and cries because people will not follow the rules or guidance. Does this make me angry, yes, more careful , yes.

 

You say..Going to lengths to justify their movements...and even then you question why they went up Napton for water...

 

STAY HOME-SAVE LIVES-PROTECT THE NHS

 

That's all it was for 99% of people during the first lockdown. ....not working out how far they could cruise knowing that MrPlod wouldnt have a car on the corner of the canal to turn them back.

Even on 23rd May, this was the official guidance..

Key boating milestones

This week you can:

Undertake short boating trips only– avoiding using locks and any staff-operated structures if possible

 

If you also remember, most media stopped along with all sport, including Countryfile outside broadcasts,  Eastenders filming, even the bloody Archers...until safe practices were put in place and Government restrictions were softened. 

 

This thread had died until the Foxes complained to the Forum that apparently there were inaccuracies and falsehoods. 

With your kids both being in the NHS, I cant understand your attitude, other than you being the permanent devils advocate you love to be.

 

The Covid caught up with the Foxes eventually hospitalising one , did they deserve it, NO, nobody deserved it, but how many people caught it from them on the towpaths local shops and maybe boatyards whilst they were moving before they knew they had it???

How many people could they have transferred it to up and down the canal if they had it asymptomatically the first lockdown???

 

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but yes, this IS about Covid19 and 2 Vloggers that just dont get it, even after having suffered it.

https://twitter.com/BylineTV/status/1354124849053052930?s=20

 

I was trying to give a more balanced opinion of their movements...the reason they were justifying why they moved each time was presumably an attempt to appease those that have become blinded by their rage and want to focus it on minor transgressions by individuals rather than the government where the fault for all this squarely lies. Ask yourself if you get as angry at the government for allowing 1000s to continue going to offices and construction sites as you do over 2 men moving a boat a few miles every fortnight?

 

But on a more general note I think many lesuire boaters on here perhaps do not appreciate there are a fair number of reasons a live aboard will need to move, especially if you don't have a car. As an example I had to travel up the crofton lock flight on the K&A to near Burbage in the April lockdown to get a phone/4G signal good enough for me to work at home with. But if I had vlogged about enjoying doing the locks I'd probably have recieved a fair amount of anger mostly for looking like I was enjoying myself. Of course phone signal isnt given as a reason to move. Nor is going to a laundrette or to get better solar. The reality was I passed no one, not even walkers, and Burbage was in the range of my local exercise when I was at the bottom of the locks anyway.

Out of boredom/curiosity Thrupp on the south Oxford is the only mooring I have been able to think of where I wouldn't need to move for any reason, it has facilities, a shop nearby and phone and solar are ok. Generally facilities are nowhere near shops unless they are in a town with a busy towpath so it tends to be a slow pattern of move into town for shopping/facilities, move where its quieter, repeat.

 

 

[Athy]

33 minutes ago, Chagall said:

 

 

It was a heartfelt reply from sirweste even if it broke one of the prissy rules 

No, that would be impossible, as CWDF does not have any "prissy" rules, just reasonable ones.

[Chagall]

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

No, that would be impossible, as CWDF does not have any "prissy" rules, just reasonable ones.

My point was it could easily have been solved by just something like "hey guys, remember its a family forum" and placing asterisks, without removing the rights of reply. 

[Machpoint005]

21 minutes ago, sirweste said:

>>Every now and then I pop back in this forum and each time it's the same toxic people making the whole place feel hostile and unwelcoming. <<

 

All opinions are welcome (to me) even if they are blatantly wrong.

 

On this occasion you were quite right. NHS staff are understandably livid about selfish idiots bending or breaking the rules. I've always said people know very well that there is a dividing line between stretching a point and extracting the liquid waste. What puzzles me is why anyone thinks it a good idea to expose their actions to public scrutiny when they know perfectly well that they have crossed the line.   

 

[Athy]

8 minutes ago, Chagall said:

My point was it could easily have been solved by just something like "hey guys, remember its a family forum" and placing asterisks, without removing the rights of reply. 

You'll be pleased, then, that the right to reply has not been removed. All members have the right to reply to any post, but they should do so within the rules. Surely you knew that?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, sirweste said:

Off topic sorry:

Yeah my post broke a rule about swearing I didn't realise exisited. Anyhow, I used the words deliberately to emphasise my thoughts on the matter. I don't swear often on a public forum, when I do I mean it as a means of expression.

I didn't feel the "charming" post warranted a reply tbh, but as it's be brought up, I found Nomad's reply about lecturing to Matty's extremely heartfelt post was very distasteful and feel you should be ashamed of it. But, you didn't use any naughty words.

 

Every now and then I pop back in this forum and each time it's the same toxic people making the whole place feel hostile and unwelcoming. 

 

My post was made from the stand point that my family have been very close to the dire effects of Covid. So I don't need a lecture about the 'whys and wherefores' of it all.

 

If you found it 'distasteful' then tough. I also feel no 'shame' for posting it, I categorically see no reason to be. The fact my opinion is different to yours is absolutely nothing to be 'ashamed' of.

 

Apologies @Chagall and to the other 'sheep' that liked that post, if that was 'less than charming' by your standards but that is how it is.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[Dave123]

55 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

All opinions are welcome (to me) even if they are blatantly wrong.

 

On this occasion you were quite right. NHS staff are understandably livid about selfish idiots bending or breaking the rules. I've always said people know very well that there is a dividing line between stretching a point and extracting the liquid waste. What puzzles me is why anyone thinks it a good idea to expose their actions to public scrutiny when they know perfectly well that they have crossed the line.   

 

I'm not for a moment suggesting people should bend or break rules but it annoys me how these sort of stories of two people doing something like having a takeaway coffee has become the focus for so much anger and blame. A good article here quoting the Dean and vice Dean of the intensive care medicine faculty explaining why this approach is wrong and where the blame and anger should be directed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/23/covid-dont-blame-public-overloaded-hospitals-icu-medics-tell-nhs-staff

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

I'm not for a moment suggesting people should bend or break rules but it annoys me how these sort of stories of two people doing something like having a takeaway coffee has become the focus for so much anger and blame. A good article here quoting the Dean and vice Dean of the intensive care medicine faculty explaining why this approach is wrong and where the blame and anger should be directed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/23/covid-dont-blame-public-overloaded-hospitals-icu-medics-tell-nhs-staff

 

Interesting article.

[Guest]

 

And in related news.

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/covid-denier-nhs-east-surrey-hospital-police-hunt-elderly-man-tobe-hayden-leigh/

 

Manhunt for Covid denier who ‘tried to take elderly man from hospital’

 

Some people really do beggar belief.......

 

 

 

[Machpoint005]

12 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

I'm not for a moment suggesting people should bend or break rules but it annoys me how these sort of stories of two people doing something like having a takeaway coffee has become the focus for so much anger and blame.

 

Is there any serious chance that the blame will eventually be placed squarely where it belongs? It suits the government agenda to have ordinary people blaming ordinary people instead of addressing the real issues.

[doratheexplorer]

20 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

I'm not for a moment suggesting people should bend or break rules but it annoys me how these sort of stories of two people doing something like having a takeaway coffee has become the focus for so much anger and blame. A good article here quoting the Dean and vice Dean of the intensive care medicine faculty explaining why this approach is wrong and where the blame and anger should be directed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/23/covid-dont-blame-public-overloaded-hospitals-icu-medics-tell-nhs-staff

This article presents itself as more nuanced, but in fact it's nothing of the sort.  It's simply reporting on two rival factions:

 

Faction 1:  It's all because of this!

 

Faction 2:  No!  It's all because of THIS!

 

As usual, no real acknowledgement of the range of factors involved, and, crucially, the reasons behind those factors.

 

Faction 1 is partly right because the government response has been a failure.

 

Faction 2 is partly right because people haven't stuck to the rules.

 

What both seem to fail to grasp is that these two things are interconnected: 

 

1.  The Government's failure has led to increased rule breaking. 

 

2.  The risk of further rule breaking has caused the government to hesitate.

 

So it's our fault and it's their fault, and it's also neither's fault.

 

We get the government we deserve.

 

 

Some time ago, I set out a three point plan for everything we do.  The pandemic would be under control by now if we all just asked ourselves before doing anything:

 

1.  Is it risky?

2. Do I need to do it?

3. Can I reduce the risk somehow?

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by doratheexplorer

[Athy]

15 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

And in related news.

 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/covid-denier-nhs-east-surrey-hospital-police-hunt-elderly-man-tobe-hayden-leigh/

 

Manhunt for Covid denier who ‘tried to take elderly man from hospital’

 

Some people really do beggar belief.......

 

 

 

That's beyond disgusting.

I hope that he will receive a long prison sentence, both for the safety of the public and to discourage any other yahoos from taking similar appalling action.

[doratheexplorer]

14 minutes ago, Athy said:

That's beyond disgusting.

I hope that he will receive a long prison sentence, both for the safety of the public and to discourage any other yahoos from taking similar appalling action.

Sadly, the sanction for this is likely to be a fine which he will appeal against.  Also, sadly, if he becomes seriously ill, those staff will have to treat him.

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, PD1964 said:

 

They seam to have made up their own Essential travel/reason to move list as it is different to CaRT’s advice on travel. 
 

 

see https://filmlondon.org.uk/covid-19-updates-and-guidance for a different view