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??? Descaler options for macerator loo with steel pipes & tank ???


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Having today had the delightful task (for a second time in the last year or two) of dismantling the macerator toilet to find the non-return valve stiff with scale, and therefore caked solid in ?, I would like some advice about using a descaler product as part of a regular maintenance routine (preferably recommendations from experience, please).

 

There are a few products on the market containing phos / citric acids, as well as some online mentions of using just vinegar or Coke as a descaler. But none mention about their safety for use in a loo that is plumbed into a steel holding tank, which in turn is integral to the hull of the boat. ? And there are lots of contradictions/options about dilution too, regarding being acidic enough to work on stubborn scale, but not to damage working parts or anything else. 

 

I already use just vinegar to clean the toilet bowl, but it's obviously not doing much to help with scale further along the pipes.

 

So for those of you who have used something to descale your macerator pipes, do you have any product recommendations please, that can just be flushed down the loo and is safe for use with a metal holding tank/metal pipes? What dilution have you found effective? How long do you leave it in the pipes/ macerator system before flushing through with water? Does the (steel) tank then have to be immediately pumped out and flushed clean? Is vinegar or anything else that's cheap and easy to come by, an effective descaler? And again, how to use it so that no part of the system is damaged or gets blocked by it? ??

 

Please share your toilety wisdom, oh gurus off all things poopy. ?

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44 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Vinegar with bicarbonate of soda works a treat.

How does that work or do you use them separately. Vinegar is acid, bicarb is alkaline so they will react and make a close to neutral mixture. I can see vinegar on its own dealing with lime scale and I can see urine might create an acidic scale so bicarb would attack it but I cant see a mixture doing much once its reacted together.

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Good question BSP! I have no answer for you, but I would like to add the further complication of not killing the good bacteria and enzymes for those of us not using chemicals.

 

I've never been macerator diving but, like many here, I live with the spectre of it.  I'll be reading the flood of wise counsel with interest...

  • Greenie 1
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We use Viakal neat into the bowl about once a week when using macerator bog. This has been done since new and its now 12 years old and works and looks like new. No blockages or smell. We put nothing in the tank blue nor green. I must say though there is no steel involved wether that makes any difference?

Edited by mrsmelly
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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

How does that work or do you use them separately. Vinegar is acid, bicarb is alkaline so they will react and make a close to neutral mixture. I can see vinegar on its own dealing with lime scale and I can see urine might create an acidic scale so bicarb would attack it but I cant see a mixture doing much once its reacted together.

I stick bicarbonate in, leave for a few minutes, then pour the vinegar in. It seems to work,  down sink drains too.

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39 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

We use Viakal neat into the bowl about once a week when using macerator bog. This has been done since new and its now 12 years old and works and looks like new. No blockages or smell. We put nothing in the tank blue nor green. I must say though there is no steel involved wether that makes any difference?

I suspect whether you are in a hard or soft water area makes quite a difference.

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27 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I stick bicarbonate in, leave for a few minutes, then pour the vinegar in. It seems to work,  down sink drains too.

If it works then fine, I just don't understand how. But now you explain I suspect the bicarb attacks the uric acid crystals and then the vinigar pusshed the bicarb solution along the pipe leaving more concetrated vinegar to attack any lime scale. The importat thing is its proven to work.

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52 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

We use Viakal neat into the bowl about once a week when using macerator bog. This has been done since new and its now 12 years old and works and looks like new. No blockages or smell. We put nothing in the tank blue nor green. I must say though there is no steel involved wether that makes any difference?

I cannot understand how this product can remove lime scale as it appears to contain only water and two perfumes according to the ingredients list.

 

Ingredients

<5% Non-Ionic Surfactants, Perfumes, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool

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You're in an area where you'll be using hard water most of the time.  Given how much you're affected I can't think of a good reason why you shouldn't fit a small domestic water softener into the system once you've done the hard work cleaning it out, and stop the problem before it starts.  If you don't want to fill the entire shower with soap bubbles, fit it where it just serves the toilet supply.  

 

Viakal is good stuff, works on all our porcelain in the bar in Southampton where the water is very hard.  Phos is another one, but needs to be used carefully.   

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When our macerator toilet valve kept back leaking into the bowl we would have to do a couple more flushes to clear it. I removed the valve to discover it caked with limescale, so about once a month I used to flush through with hot water, add half a bottle of Kilrock descaler acid, partly flush to ensure it is in contact with valve, chuck rest of decaler into bowl and leave until it had dissolved limescale (stops fizzing) then flush through. No prob after that, important to do it regularly before limescale builds up otherwise it takes a long time for scale to dissolve. 

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2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I cannot understand how this product can remove lime scale as it appears to contain only water and two perfumes according to the ingredients list.

 

Ingredients

<5% Non-Ionic Surfactants, Perfumes, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool

See if this works 

image.png.4da6a5c2464de2c83ee4737f4e260053.png

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Thanks all.

 

Bicarb and vinegar works for unblocking sinks because it creates carbonic acid - but only very briefly. It quickly transforms into carbon dioxide and water (and a few ions) - so the bubbles of gas force the blockage out. However I don't see how at a chemical level it can descale anything, because the acid neutralises the alkaline. I use bicarb and vinegar on the sinks on the boat to clear the plastic pipes of greasy or soapy residue.

 

As for the other suggestions above, which of you have a metal tank and pipes? Have you had the tank pumped out immediately after using your descaler of choice or is it safe to leave the tank for a few days or weeks? 

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Cloth nappy soaking powder.  They are designed to dissolve "solids and crystals" to keep it polite, they are non-aggressive and are readily available.

 

Miofresh is good, other brands are available.  It's cheap enough that you can do it regularly to stop it becoming a problem.

 

Make a strong solution with warm water and let it soak for a while - the longer the better, but overnight a couple of times should do it if it's severe.

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49 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

See if this works 

 

 

Have you ever seen the 10 page Safety data sheet for water ?

 

10 pages ............................

Had to smile at the instruction for Firefighters :

"Use suitable extinguishing medium - product itself does not burn"

 

6.3 Methods and material for containment and cleaning up Advice on how to contain a spill

Covering of drains. No special measures are necessary.

Advice on how to clean up a spill Wipe up with absorbent material (e.g. cloth, fleece).

Other information relating to spills and releases Place in appropriate containers for disposal.

 

6.4 Reference to other sections Hazardous combustion products: see section 5.

Personal protective equipment: see section 8.

Incompatible materials: see section 10.

Disposal considerations: see section 13.

 

SECTION 7: Handling and storage

7.1 Precautions for safe handling No special measures are necessary. Advice on general occupational hygiene Keep away from food, drink and animal feedingstuffs.

7.2 Conditions for safe storage, including any incompatibilities Keep container tightly closed. Incompatible substances or mixtures Observe hints for combined storage. Consideration of other advice • Ventilation requirements Use local and general ventilation. • Specific designs for storage rooms or vessels

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, BlueStringPudding said:

Thanks all.

 

Bicarb and vinegar works for unblocking sinks because it creates carbonic acid - but only very briefly. It quickly transforms into carbon dioxide and water (and a few ions) - so the bubbles of gas force the blockage out. However I don't see how at a chemical level it can descale anything, because the acid neutralises the alkaline. I use bicarb and vinegar on the sinks on the boat to clear the plastic pipes of greasy or soapy residue.

 

As for the other suggestions above, which of you have a metal tank and pipes? Have you had the tank pumped out immediately after using your descaler of choice or is it safe to leave the tank for a few days or weeks? 

Best descale when tank is nearly full then acid will be very dilute, pumped out soon after. 

  • Greenie 1
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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Have you ever seen the 10 page Safety data sheet for water ?

 

10 pages ............................

Had to smile at the instruction for Firefighters :

"Use suitable extinguishing medium - product itself does not burn"

 

6.3 Methods and material for containment and cleaning up Advice on how to contain a spill

Covering of drains. No special measures are necessary.

Advice on how to clean up a spill Wipe up with absorbent material (e.g. cloth, fleece).

Other information relating to spills and releases Place in appropriate containers for disposal.

 

6.4 Reference to other sections Hazardous combustion products: see section 5.

Personal protective equipment: see section 8.

Incompatible materials: see section 10.

Disposal considerations: see section 13.

 

SECTION 7: Handling and storage

7.1 Precautions for safe handling No special measures are necessary. Advice on general occupational hygiene Keep away from food, drink and animal feedingstuffs.

7.2 Conditions for safe storage, including any incompatibilities Keep container tightly closed. Incompatible substances or mixtures Observe hints for combined storage. Consideration of other advice • Ventilation requirements Use local and general ventilation. • Specific designs for storage rooms or vessels

You think that's bad, look up dihydrogen monoxide -- deadly stuff, kills thousands every year...

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