Jump to content

Kelvin K3 Running Temp


Featured Posts

Been running my engine today to double check the charging systems. 

What I noticed is that on the cooling water lines one cylinder was significantly hotter than the other two.

The Cylinder blocks themselves all felt about the same, just the outlet pipe.

I have put in some engine flush to see if there maybe a blockage, but anyone had a similar issue before.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The unit furthest away from the water pump, the one that is hot is hot to touch and you would not leave your hand there for a considerable period, the other two are mush cooler, but all three cylinders casings feel the same.

 

I would need to buy a compression tester to check those. The tappers I have not checked and need to dig out the manual. And i no longer have a IR Thermometer and really should invest in a new one.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Martin R said:

The unit furthest away from the water pump, the one that is hot is hot to touch and you would not leave your hand there for a considerable period, the other two are mush cooler, but all three cylinders casings feel the same.

 

I would need to buy a compression tester to check those. The tappers I have not checked and need to dig out the manual. And i no longer have a IR Thermometer and really should invest in a new one.

That is what I would expect, it will have a lower flow rate than cylinders nearer the pump.

But its your engine, is this something new or have you only just noticed?

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are restrictors, to balance the water flow,  in each of the flanges where the water enters the bottom of the cylinder. They are quite small holes too.  If one of these becomes partly blocked by scale or a bit of rust you will get the symptoms you have.  Even with the restrictors clean, there is commonly quite wide variation in individual cylinder temperatures.  One previous poster on here spent hours getting his J3 cylinder and head temps similar across all of them.  My J2 runs hotter on the front cylinder than the back, but has not complained in last 32 years  so I leave it alone.

 

According to the words of Mr Bergius, the ideal running temperature is when the pipes leading from the top of the cylinder to the top water rail are "as hot as the hand can bear".  I presume that this is the horny hand of a  Scots fisherman  and so can bear  pretty damn hot.  I doubt that a K3 will be easily brought to that hot in canal usage.

 

However if you want to do a few simple checks without dismantling much I would suggest tappets as suggested by Tracy, the valves and springs in the water pump (one at a time so you lose less coolant) and the spring, valve and restrictor in the water diverter.  The lid to your water diverter appears to be shy one bolt by the way.  Getting at the restrictors in the inlet flanges is a PITA, because the fuel pump and governor are in the way, and will result in an engine full of coolant in the bilge.

N

Link to post
Share on other sites

The pipework is most easily removed in one piece then dismantled later.

On refitting assemble it into a lump but don't tighten the pipe clips until you have the flanges all bolted up.

Or you can remove the pump stool etc when you can detach individual bits of pipe more easily.

 

N

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Martin R said:

So had to move the boat today, the header tank boiled over, I was not pushing the engine hard, so clearly I need to do some work

Did it boil over because gas forced a lot of the water out or did it overheat due to lack of cooling water if it is direct cooled?

We need lots more detail if you want help.

Has it done this before?

Edited by Tracy D'arth
Link to post
Share on other sites

Evening, so the level rises due to overheat, it will slowly increase until it spews over. Slow the engine back down and the level drops.

 

it has happened before and I thought it was down to me just pushing the old girl a little too much.

the engine is direct with a skin tank.

 

I suspect there is either blockages in the system or the system is in need of a good clean and overhaul. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Martin R said:

Evening, so the level rises due to overheat, it will slowly increase until it spews over. Slow the engine back down and the level drops.

 

it has happened before and I thought it was down to me just pushing the old girl a little too much.

the engine is direct with a skin tank.

 

I suspect there is either blockages in the system or the system is in need of a good clean and overhaul. 

So its not direct cooled? The cooling system has a header tank?  If so I think you have a head gasket gone.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a closed loop fresh water cooling system, with the skin tank doing the fresh to canal heat exchange. I thought about head gasket, and guess I should get hold of one or two and strip that head that I said was getting hot first.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Martin R said:

It is a closed loop fresh water cooling system, with the skin tank doing the fresh to canal heat exchange. I thought about head gasket, and guess I should get hold of one or two and strip that head that I said was getting hot first.

Don't understand closed loop fresh that's a contradiction in terms.

 

So you have a skin tank, non pressurised with an open header tank, with antifreeze, no water from the cut at all?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've recently had the same problem with my Gardner 3L2.  Header tank overflowing and thermometer on engine reading high. 

I dropped all the coolant out and refilled it with straight water plus 3 bottles of cooling system flush (Wynns, from motor factors). I then ran it in gear hard for a good hour to get things flowing through the skin tank, drained it back out and let it cool. I then back flushed the skin tank and pipes with a hose, a fair bit of brown sludge came out at first.  

After another refill with a/freeze mixture and bleed it's been fine. I've just got back from 3 days on the Trent and no problems at all, including pushing a big tide with plenty of revs on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a similar problem when I had a K3. The water pump had lost it's efficiency and I discovered that the shaft/rod in the pump was bent so had a new one made. Also put new leather pump seals made. Lastly, the water jacket had some corrosion in (probably from years at sea when it was in a trawler). I removed the plugs and used a metal coat hanger amongst other times to give it a good prod and cleared out the scale/rust that had fallen. All was ok after that. Sorry for a rather non-technical reply but it was a few years ago. Dick Goble was my goto man then as well as Phil Trotter (RW Davis) and a guy in Kent who took over the Kelvin spares/owners club.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

So its not direct cooled? The cooling system has a header tank?  If so I think you have a head gasket gone.

It cannot be a head gasket.

 

  There are no water (or oil) passages in the head gasket.  The gasket is a sheet of steel about 60 thou thick with holes for the piston, the combustion venturi securing bolt and the seven head studs.

 

It could be a cracked head, but that usually causes water in the affected cylinder, and the model K is not known for cracked heads, unlike the model J.

 

I would address the water pump and pipework first.  The valves sometimes stick and anyway do not last for ever, and the valve springs can fail if proper bronze ones are not fitted..  Also worth looking a the inside  of the water diverter which should also have a spring loaded piston  but is often empty.

N

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BEngo said:

It cannot be a head gasket.

 

  There are no water (or oil) passages in the head gasket.  The gasket is a sheet of steel about 60 thou thick with holes for the piston, the combustion venturi securing bolt and the seven head studs.

 

It could be a cracked head, but that usually causes water in the affected cylinder, and the model K is not known for cracked heads, unlike the model J.

 

I would address the water pump and pipework first.  The valves sometimes stick and anyway do not last for ever, and the valve springs can fail if proper bronze ones are not fitted..  Also worth looking a the inside  of the water diverter which should also have a spring loaded piston  but is often empty.

N

I bow to your superior knowledge, sorry to mislead.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No worries.  Odd buggers Mr Bergius's engines.  The only  gaskets, except those actually on water or oil pipes, which have oil or water passing through them are the ones under the oil wells on the rocker cover.  All the rest just keep oil in.  And as for petrol starting....

 

The really handy thing about Kelvin head gaskets is that they are easy to get made.  Any competent laser or water jet cutter outfit can make them from the right thickness steel sheet, given an AutoCAD file, and these are, or were, on Mike Skyner's website. The last ones I had done were for the model J,  by Model Engineers Laser.  (No connection  except as a happy customer.)

 

 You do need quite a lot of Wellseal to fit them though.

N

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
35 minutes ago, Martin R said:

Removed all the cooling rails, found the cylinder and head outlet pipes severely restricted with sealant

C2018A65-CC1F-4C3E-A3CD-128D039C08C7.jpeg

"Severely restricted"?  Is there any water passage there at all?

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Martin R said:

Removed all the cooling rails, found the cylinder and head outlet pipes severely restricted with sealant

C2018A65-CC1F-4C3E-A3CD-128D039C08C7.jpeg

Some years ago we acquired a part dismantled J2 . One cylinder head was cracked and the engine had been seriously overheated. The owner had given up with it, especially as it was only hand  start.I completely dismantled the engine and found that the water pump inlet flange had been siliconed, much as in this case. There was about 60% blockage of the water intake with white silicon- I took it that  this was the cause of the overheating and  damage to the engine.😩

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.