Jump to content

Widebeam Length


Martin Stanford

Featured Posts

Good Morning

 

I am hoping to reach out to your skill and experience.

 

My wife and I will hopefully be purchasing a Widebeam boat in 2021 to constant cruise the South & the North widebeam accessible waterways.  Research and watching hours of vlogs has made me aware that in the South we have the Thames, GU and the K&A and that I will need to lift out to access the North. My concern however is the North, looking at the map it would seem that to access the North West and the Liverpool & Leeds Canal boat length will be an issue.

 

Would I be right in thinking that I cannot have a boat longer than 60 ft in length and 12ft in width if I want to Navigate the widebeam canals in this part of the country?

 

Many thanks

 

 

Edited by Martin Stanford
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One point to consider. My wide beam was only fifty feet, at first we discounted this length until we went and looked. Plenty of room for two as much as our 70 foot nb had but a far more use able comfortable space. Longer boats were usually the same but one xtra bedroom which we didn't need. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57'6" max length in a broad beam if you want to navigate the Rochdale and Huddersfield Broad canals, and you really should! Less than 14' wide is good as some locks that used to take up to 14' have got squeezed in a bit over the years.

Either a lift out, or a tidal passage from Avonmouth to Sharpness will get you access to the Gloucester and Sharpness canal and Severn and Avon rivers. Another across the Wash, once you are in the north will give you the east Anglian waterways.

Jen

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

57'6" max length in a broad beam if you want to navigate the Rochdale and Huddersfield Broad canals, and you really should! Less than 14' wide is good as some locks that used to take up to 14' have got squeezed in a bit over the years.

 

You'll not get a 14 foot beam over the Rochdale.  12 is just doable.

 

55 x 12 I think is the ideal size for the Northern network.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You'll not get a 14 foot beam over the Rochdale.  12 is just doable.

 

55 x 12 I think is the ideal size for the Northern network.

Yup, the Rochdale in particular I was thinking of. Did it in company with another narrowboat and there were warnings about which locks not to share.

Jen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Martin Stanford said:

Good Morning

 

I am hoping to reach out to your skill and experience.

 

My wife and I will hopefully be purchasing a Widebeam boat in 2021 to constant cruise the South & the North widebeam accessible waterways.  Research and watching hours of vlogs has made me aware that in the South we have the Thames, GU and the K&A and that I will need to lift out to access the North. My concern however is the North, looking at the map it would seem that to access the North West and the Liverpool & Leeds Canal boat length will be an issue.

 

Would I be right in thinking that I cannot have a boat longer than 60 ft in length and 12ft in width if I want to Navigate the widebeam canals in this part of the country?

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

You really need to determine exactly which waterways you intend to use before deciding on a boat size (length or width).

Because of problems with 'inconsiderate boaters / boating' C&RT are now in consultation about revising their licence terms & conditions limiting what sized boats can be allowed to use which waters.

Just because a boat is 'capable' of using a certain waterway does not mean it is 'appropiate' or should be allowed to use it due to problems it can cause.

 

The Oxford is a case in point.

 

Do you really want to start your boating life in fear of having your licence revoked because you have taken your boat onto a waterway C&RT consider to be unsuitable.

 

C&RTs consultation question :

 

 

Issue
Currently, we’re seeing an increase in the number of wider or larger dimensioned boats on waterways that are inappropriately sized for their use, leading to complaints, navigational obstruction and damage to our property and boats. We advertise (here) our waterway dimensions which boats on the network should comply with.

Restriction of wider or larger dimension boats to certain Waterways is not expressly covered by our terms and conditions and therefore doesn't support the Trust in managing these issues.
 
Proposed change
F.1 The boat should be fit for navigation on the Waterway where it is intended to be used.
 
F.2 Whilst cruising on our network, your Boat must not exceed the maximum craft dimensions for the Waterway at any time.  This includes the height, draught, beam and length of your vessel and where two or more boats are cruising together, the total height, beam, draught and length of both boats in their combined cruising formation.
 
F.3 Maximum craft dimensions are published on our website from time to time and may be subject to change
 

F.4 You should ensure that you have available for immediate use proper fenders of suitable material and condition, and you should use those fenders whenever there is a risk of the boat striking against any boat, structure or object

 

 

 

NABO reply pointing out (amongst other things) that 'modern widebeam' boats are not all built to a suitable shape and can cause issues

 

 

Section F. Wider or larger dimensioned boats

 

F2 More and more widebeams are being built with straight sides and damage is being caused to bridge arches. Maximum widths have to be reduced to take this into account or the angle of tumblehome perhaps needs to be specified.

F3 It should be made clear that navigational dimensions will not change but required craft dimensions may do from time to time.

F4 This clause needs to be rewritten to the effect that all wide beam boats should have bow and stern fenders. In addition fenders should be available to be deployed where there is a risk of collision with any boat or canal infrastructure. Boats should not cruise with fenders down.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
  • Greenie 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mine is 57 x 12 and I consider this the ideal size for the northern waterways, as yet I have always been able to get through any locks I have encountered. I do have a wheelhouse as well which is more likely to be a problem than anything else. Enjoy yourself looking for a boat and dont be put off by negative comments

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think on this:-

  • Just because you can buy a boat to your own specification doesn't mean that it can practically cruise your target waterways
  • If buying used your desired size may not even be available
  • Better to set a target ideal size - and then be prepared to compromise
  • Some waterways that would be 'nice to visit' may be impracticable for you to use (difficult access, poor condition and so on)

 

A widebeam of the type that equate to a stretched narrowboat may not be the best for living on - for example Sagar marine mad some super boats practical to use and comfortable for living on - but whch are only usable on large canals and rivers.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

57'6" max length in a broad beam if you want to navigate the Rochdale and Huddersfield Broad canals,

Further to that, go for a rounded stern shape, not a square one . The cills of a lot of locks on the northern canals are curved to fit the curved sterns of the wide beam boats they were designed for. A square stern risks catching the corners on the cill when descending steep locks. Not only that, but they are really ugly too!

  • Greenie 3
  • Unimpressed 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Think on this:-

  • Just because you can buy a boat to your own specification doesn't mean that it can practically cruise your target waterways
  • If buying used your desired size may not even be available
  • Better to set a target ideal size - and then be prepared to compromise
  • Some waterways that would be 'nice to visit' may be impracticable for you to use (difficult access, poor condition and so on)

 

A widebeam of the type that equate to a stretched narrowboat may not be the best for living on - for example Sagar marine mad some super boats practical to use and comfortable for living on - but whch are only usable on large canals and rivers.

Widebeams have more usable space than some of the Sagar boats, I looked at one when I first decided to go boating and my other half of the time, remarked on how little room it had considering its size, on reflection I should have bought it, as it would have stopped me buying a narrowboat and then trading up later on.

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

By far the best length for a widebeam boat to go anywhere is 7 feet.

he wants a boat not a sideways tube ?

Edited by peterboat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You really need to determine exactly which waterways you intend to use before deciding on a boat size (length or width).

Because of problems with 'inconsiderate boaters / boating' C&RT are now in consultation about revising their licence terms & conditions limiting what sized boats can be allowed to use which waters.

Just because a boat is 'capable' of using a certain waterway does not mean it is 'appropiate' or should be allowed to use it due to problems it can cause.

 

The Oxford is a case in point.

 

Do you really want to start your boating life in fear of having your licence revoked because you have taken your boat onto a waterway C&RT consider to be unsuitable.

 

C&RTs consultation question :

 

 

Issue
Currently, we’re seeing an increase in the number of wider or larger dimensioned boats on waterways that are inappropriately sized for their use, leading to complaints, navigational obstruction and damage to our property and boats. We advertise (here) our waterway dimensions which boats on the network should comply with.

Restriction of wider or larger dimension boats to certain Waterways is not expressly covered by our terms and conditions and therefore doesn't support the Trust in managing these issues.
 
Proposed change
F.1 The boat should be fit for navigation on the Waterway where it is intended to be used.
 
F.2 Whilst cruising on our network, your Boat must not exceed the maximum craft dimensions for the Waterway at any time.  This includes the height, draught, beam and length of your vessel and where two or more boats are cruising together, the total height, beam, draught and length of both boats in their combined cruising formation.
 
F.3 Maximum craft dimensions are published on our website from time to time and may be subject to change
 

F.4 You should ensure that you have available for immediate use proper fenders of suitable material and condition, and you should use those fenders whenever there is a risk of the boat striking against any boat, structure or object

 

 

 

NABO reply pointing out (amongst other things) that 'modern widebeam' boats are not all built to a suitable shape and can cause issues

 

 

Section F. Wider or larger dimensioned boats

 

F2 More and more widebeams are being built with straight sides and damage is being caused to bridge arches. Maximum widths have to be reduced to take this into account or the angle of tumblehome perhaps needs to be specified.

F3 It should be made clear that navigational dimensions will not change but required craft dimensions may do from time to time.

F4 This clause needs to be rewritten to the effect that all wide beam boats should have bow and stern fenders. In addition fenders should be available to be deployed where there is a risk of collision with any boat or canal infrastructure. Boats should not cruise with fenders down.

I hope they get this carried out soon, can't wait!

 

 To add to what some have already said regarding practicality of bigger boats on certain waterways, please bear in mind that in many places not designed for them but still accessible that your craft will compromise others enjoyment of those places just by being there, let alone when on the move. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To add to what some have already said regarding practicality of bigger boats on certain waterways, please bear in mind that in many places not designed for them but still accessible that your craft will compromise others enjoyment of those places just by being there, let alone when on the move.

 

That is the issue with the north Oxford, but CRT 'permitted' them when they didn't object to the planning application at Onley.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Martin Stanford said:

Good Morning

 

I am hoping to reach out to your skill and experience.

 

My wife and I will hopefully be purchasing a Widebeam boat in 2021 to constant cruise the South & the North widebeam accessible waterways.  Research and watching hours of vlogs has made me aware that in the South we have the Thames, GU and the K&A and that I will need to lift out to access the North. My concern however is the North, looking at the map it would seem that to access the North West and the Liverpool & Leeds Canal boat length will be an issue.

 

Would I be right in thinking that I cannot have a boat longer than 60 ft in length and 12ft in width if I want to Navigate the widebeam canals in this part of the country?

 

Many thanks

 

 

I should probably have mentioned in my post that I want to maximise the amount of Northern waterways I can reasonably access without causing disruption or damage to other boaters, whilst still operating as big a boat as I can comfortably live in.  I have seen shots of the L&L and parts of the North West and really needed to know if this was accessible with a 60ft boat.

 

We are downsizing our life and are not quite ready to go to a NB but feel that a WB is a good first step for us. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Martin Stanford said:

I should probably have mentioned in my post that I want to maximise the amount of Northern waterways I can reasonably access without causing disruption or damage to other boaters, whilst still operating as big a boat as I can comfortably live in.  I have seen shots of the L&L and parts of the North West and really needed to know if this was accessible with a 60ft boat.

 

We are downsizing our life and are not quite ready to go to a NB but feel that a WB is a good first step for us. 

 

 

As you already realise that you need to move on a truck between north and south I believe your choice is sound. Widebeams are immeasureably nicer than narrow boats in every way. They handle better, are much  more stable and the comfort levels difference beggars belief. The only reason at all to buy a narrow beam is the poxy 7 fiit wide locks left for us by accountants two hundred plus years ago. If you need to travel extensively each year then it has to be narrow but if you want to do a couple of years or so between moves a wide beam is a no brainer. The main problem for many is the price. A useable narrow beam is available for 30k but a widebeam is not for instance.

  • Greenie 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Martin Stanford said:

I should probably have mentioned in my post that I want to maximise the amount of Northern waterways I can reasonably access without causing disruption or damage to other boaters, whilst still operating as big a boat as I can comfortably live in.  I have seen shots of the L&L and parts of the North West and really needed to know if this was accessible with a 60ft boat.

 

We are downsizing our life and are not quite ready to go to a NB but feel that a WB is a good first step for us. 

 

 

I believe the Calder and Hebble is 57 foot rather than 60 (I can say for certain that its not 70 ?). The Huddersfield broad is also about 57. So with a 60 foot boat you can not really do the Rochdale, you could do a there and back from Manchester but would probably not want to.

 

A 70 foot wide will fit on the K&A but in some areas popular with moored boats you might not have an easy time.

 

..........Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the L&L the boat if wide needs to be the same shape as a Liverpool short boat if you want as large as possible. The locks have curved cills, & narrow angled gates.

 

Bear in mind that many canals have changed over the years and there is no guarantee that a boat that fitted the canal 200 years ago will still fit the same canal tomorrow!  This even applies to narrow beam boats on some canals and certainly in some locks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Martin Stanford said:

I should probably have mentioned in my post that I want to maximise the amount of Northern waterways I can reasonably access without causing disruption or damage to other boaters, whilst still operating as big a boat as I can comfortably live in.  I have seen shots of the L&L and parts of the North West and really needed to know if this was accessible with a 60ft boat.

 

We are downsizing our life and are not quite ready to go to a NB but feel that a WB is a good first step for us. 

 

 

If you want to go on the lancaster canal then its 57 x 10 to go through the ribble link I believe?

If you arnt bothered about that then its 57 x 12 realistically 60 foot wont fit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The crazy VAT rules aren't helping with boat sizes - I recently enquired about a sailaway widebeam. As it will largely be only me, I felt that 50' x 10' would be a nice size, not too intimidating on the canals etc. BUT I would have had to pay VAT on a 50' x 10', which I wouldn't on a 60 x 12'6", making the smaller boat more expensive.

 

60'x12'6" is crazy big for a single person, and, as above, impractical for many of even the wide canals, so back to the drawing board.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

The crazy VAT rules aren't helping with boat sizes - I recently enquired about a sailaway widebeam. As it will largely be only me, I felt that 50' x 10' would be a nice size, not too intimidating on the canals etc. BUT I would have had to pay VAT on a 50' x 10', which I wouldn't on a 60 x 12'6", making the smaller boat more expensive.

 

60'x12'6" is crazy big for a single person, and, as above, impractical for many of even the wide canals, so back to the drawing board.

I see quite a few widebeams with zero tumblehome and very narrow gunnels, plus cabins extending almost right to the front of the boat. Are these features part of the compromise to become VAT free? Having a boat that is ugly and not really suitable for boating is maybe a big price to pay in order to save a few bob (though quite a lot of bobs).

I think the VAT free thing was really aimed at static residential boats (but clever use of loopholes lets moving boats sort of squeeze in) so maybe its to be expected that these boats are not ideal for actual boating?

 

...............Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

The crazy VAT rules aren't helping with boat sizes - I recently enquired about a sailaway widebeam. As it will largely be only me, I felt that 50' x 10' would be a nice size, not too intimidating on the canals etc. BUT I would have had to pay VAT on a 50' x 10', which I wouldn't on a 60 x 12'6", making the smaller boat more expensive.

If buying one make sure you do a LOT of investigation and due-diligence.

 

One manufacturer sold their 60 x 12' 6" boats as Zero VAT rated, and made the buyer sign a declaration that if it was subsequently found not to meet the HMRC regulations then the buyer would be responsible for oaying the VAT.

 

Several buyers were traced via the manufacturers records and HMRC sent them each a bill (to be paid within 14 days) for around £20,000.

The manufacturer was telling porkies - it did not meet the requirements.

 

Have a read of this :

 

Guide To VAT Free / Exempt Widebeams | Canal Boats | Narrowboats (thefitoutpontoon.co.uk)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.