Insurance - required to have an Experienced Person on board

[Ewan123]

Hi all,

 

Having lurked on the forum for quite a while now, we've just bought our first boat as soon-to-be liveaboards (woohoo!) and are sorting out insurance. We've only contacted one insurer so far (GJW Direct came recommended) but have found a snag.

 

When asked about our boating experience, they were unsatisfied with us having less than 1 year of cruising experience. They would therefore only insure us if we have an 'experienced person' on board during transit, or if one of us does a helmsman course (we would have done a course over winter anyway, but COVID... and won't get on a course before we get the boat). This requirement would be lifted once we were deemed to be sufficiently experienced.

 

Has anyone else come across this - is it common to many/all insurers? 

 

Short of fibbing (never the best plan for insurance) and claiming to have the required experience, I'm not sure what our immediate options are. Any suggestions welcomed!

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

Any suggestions welcomed!

 

Try here :

 

Craftinsure Boat Insurance | Compare Yacht, Narrowboat, Dinghy, RIB, Speedboat, Canoe and Kayak Insurance

 

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

Hi all,

 

Having lurked on the forum for quite a while now, we've just bought our first boat as soon-to-be liveaboards (woohoo!) and are sorting out insurance. We've only contacted one insurer so far (GJW Direct came recommended) but have found a snag.

 

When asked about our boating experience, they were unsatisfied with us having less than 1 year of cruising experience. They would therefore only insure us if we have an 'experienced person' on board during transit, or if one of us does a helmsman course (we would have done a course over winter anyway, but COVID... and won't get on a course before we get the boat). This requirement would be lifted once we were deemed to be sufficiently experienced.

 

Has anyone else come across this - is it common to many/all insurers? 

 

Short of fibbing (never the best plan for insurance) and claiming to have the required experience, I'm not sure what our immediate options are. Any suggestions welcomed!

I seem to recall we were asked this right at the outset but we had pretty extensive hire boat experience which was accepted.

 

Have you hired previously?

[Ewan123]

Yes, but not extensively.

[mrsmelly]

Dont fib or you will not be insured, just have a worthless bit of paper. Especialy as you have now documented it on a public forum, you would be suprised how insurance companies find out who people are from anonimous forums. Find a n insurer who has no such stipulation.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

Yes, but not extensively.

I guess then it will depend how much.

 

Why not give them a bell and see if they will accept what you have?

[Arthur Marshall]

As you are, in fact, very unlikely to claim on your insurance anyway (in thirty years I never have, and I've only known one person who has), I'd include in your estimate of boating experience all time spent playing with a boat in the bath. Insurance is basically a swindle, they will almost certainly find a way of avoiding paying out if you ever try to claim, unless you manage to sink your boat, and even then I'm sure they'd try.

Alternatively, get 3rd party for a year and then go comprehensive!

[doratheexplorer]

I was never asked what experience I had when I first got boat insurance.  Try a few different companies.

[mrsmelly]

17 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I was never asked what experience I had when I first got boat insurance.  Try a few different companies.

Same here but that was over thirty years ago and insurance companies are getting harder and harder to please. I insured one of our cars in october with a new company and had to jump through loads of hoops showing driving licence and all sorts of other docs to keep them happy, this even though I have had vehicle insurance continuously since 1972

[ditchcrawler]

This has come up before and a family living on wide beam in Limehouse Basin have to get another boater to take them across for a pump out

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

This has come up before and a family living on wide beam in Limehouse Basin have to get another boater to take them across for a pump out

Should have got a cassette 

[ditchcrawler]

30 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I was never asked what experience I had when I first got boat insurance.  Try a few different companies.

I think things may have changed in very recent years. I was asked but I dont know what difference it made

[Kudzucraft]

42 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I'd include in your estimate of boating experience all time spent playing with a boat in the bath.

I respectfully disagree. I think this is really bad advice.  

 

48 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Dont fib or you will not be insured, just have a worthless bit of paper. Especialy as you have now documented it on a public forum, you would be suprised how insurance companies find out who people are from anonimous forums. Find a n insurer who has no such stipulation.

 

Having had dealings with an insurance company on a disputed claim and having to sue them. I can confirm it is amazing at what they find out about you. 

 

I will give you odds are slim you will have a claim but if you do they can legally deny the claim and you could be out a lot money.

[Ray T]

When we bought our boat the insurance took into account numerous years of hiring.

They never asked for proof, just took my word for it. I did have my log book, but could have done a "Donald Crowhurst."

Donald Crowhurst - Wikipedia

Insured with Towergate.

[BilgePump]

I'm assuming that a lot of us on here have few or no formal boating qualifications. Only got anything for salty water like competent crew many years ago and DSC VHF about 2015.

The question of experience has come up even on my third party insurance policies for little GRPs and was always a stipulation when family had the narrowboat on fully comp. They were happy with a statement to the effect of 'I've been boating since I was a kid' for my own boats (and could find old policy numbers if they asked) or 'we've owned and been using this boat for twenty years' for the NB. Without being able to prove any of these statements I'm guessing an insurance company would have more than a lot of wriggle room. Like others have said, don't lie or you're paying for nothing. Just like car insurance, all your statements must be demonstrably true.  Try and find a course they would accept asap and find some suitably experienced new friends to move it in the meantime.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Ray T said:

When we bought our boat the insurance took into account numerous years of hiring.

They never asked for proof, just took my word for it. I did have my log book, but could have done a "Donald Crowhurst."

Donald Crowhurst - Wikipedia

Insured with Towergate.

The strange voyage of Donald Crowhurst is a fascinating, scary and desperately sad book. Teignmouth Electron ended up decaying on some beach eventually

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by BilgePump

[dor]

Worrying fofr those people who lend their boat to family or friends for a few days., not an uncommon occurance.  Time to check your insurance policy.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, dor said:

Time to check your insurance policy.

 

Mine says (something to the effect) "OK to let other suitably experienced use the boat blah blah blah"

 

The onus (and hence the insurance cover being in place) is therefore on the owner to ensure that whoever is using the boat is suitably qualified.

[Ray T]

8 minutes ago, dor said:

Worrying for those people who lend their boat to family or friends for a few days., not an uncommon occurance.  Time to check your insurance policy.

Up until Covid we have lent our boat to a niece and nephew.

We always informed Towergate of the dates and stipulated that we are happy with their capabilities with regard to boat handling.

We also have RCR covering the boat so any others who use the boat are covered for breakdown.

[BilgePump]

If it's not explicitly covered then check the policy is worth the paper...

About five years ago we decided to check that the insurance was valid on the family boat (dad's name) if I was single handing and had to go through locks.

Yes, I'd spent a lot of time on my own on the boat and single handed locks over twenty years but had never really bothered to check. Could have been like a car where my dad was covered for one thing but family members for a lesser cover (in the way I have leisure/business cover on a car but my sis as a named driver can only use it for leisure).

They asked what experience, answered truthfully.

They said, yes, in e-writing, covered. Happy days.

In the end, I didn't even need to bother. My dad was available again and we did  the trip together.

But it was good to know on subsequent occasions that from then on it was a certainty and not an assumption.

[Chewbacka]

1 hour ago, dor said:

Worrying fofr those people who lend their boat to family or friends for a few days., not an uncommon occurance.  Time to check your insurance policy.

My son and a couple of his friends wanted to borrow my boat for a few days, insurance company discussed his & his friends level of competency including my assessment, said it was fine so long as my son was either on or next to the tiller when the boat was under power.

 

added - don’t be nervous about calling the insurance company, I have always found then to be helpful.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Chewbacka

[pearley]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Same here but that was over thirty years ago and insurance companies are getting harder and harder to please. I insured one of our cars in october with a new company and had to jump through loads of hoops showing driving licence and all sorts of other docs to keep them happy, this even though I have had vehicle insurance continuously since 1972

Due to change in circumstances we've just bought our first car for 14 years. Used the comparison sites for insurance cover but went with Direct Line. Other than explaining on the phone why our postal address was different to our living address it was surprisingly easy.

[Ewan123]

Thanks all - we tried out Craftinsure (cheers

@Alan de Enfield) and they didn't even ask the question, so we've gone with them. Sorted!

Edited December 7, 2020 by Ewan123

[enigmatic]

GJW were the only insurer of about ten I contacted that insisted on a course or 'years' of experience.

[wandering snail]

3 hours ago, Ewan123 said:

Thanks all - we tried out Craftinsure (cheers

@Alan de Enfield) and they didn't even ask the question, so we've gone with them. Sorted!

They certainly paid out when we had a JCB crash into the boat causing £30,000 of damage, but I suppose that claim was a tad unusual.

[Cheshire cat]

When we insured with Towergate they didn't ask the question but the requirement for a years experience was documented within the policy.