£100 Reward.

[Tracy D'arth]

I am considering something of great advantage to a large number of boater who live aboard all year round.

 

To win this reward will require lateral thought, practical experiment and complete explanation with notes and illustrations. Any patent for the solution will then be mine.

 

It will be a solution rather than a palliative  to a problem that has plagued some boaters for generations.

 

The problem is a normal natural event that is normally manageable but gets out of control in winter.

 

It is initiated by the installation of glass and aluminium flat plate dehumidifiers in a boat.

 

Colloquially known as condensation on Houdini roof lights.

 

I have an hourly mopping routine, run a dehumidifier 24/7 and still I get drips as soon as the weather turns cold and wet or a wind introduces a chill factor.

 

I produce no more water vapour than anyone else, have no sources of evaporating water on board other than the usual loo, sink, shower, basin and central heating header tank. I can't stop breathing just yet, it would be counter productive anyway.

 

I heat the boat with a solid fuel burner that is in good leak free order, with 4 radiators.

I ventilate with roof vents, open roof lights and even windows when the climate allows without suffering exposure or huge fuel bills.

 

So there is the offer, best proven successful answer wins.

 

 

 

 

T'D

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Tracy D'arth
Grammatical correction

[TheBiscuits]

 

Remove the houdini hatch and replace with steel & insulation.  Trim the inside, paint the outside.

 

Do you really need diagrams or written instructions for this?  I thought better of you ...

[Tracy D'arth]

49 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Remove the houdini hatch and replace with steel & insulation.  Trim the inside, paint the outside.

 

Do you really need diagrams or written instructions for this?  I thought better of you ...

Sorry, no banana, its not an acceptable answer.  That's defeatism, you  could say sell the boat and live ashore, no thanks.

[tree monkey]

Wear one if those isolation suits with external ventilation plug the vent/breathing pipe to a handy socket installed in a mushroom vent, do all your cooking on an outside BBQ

[sueb]

Use the clear plastic double glazing  https://www.diy.com/departments/diall-clear-glazing-window-film-l-4000m-w-1-5m/1802835_BQ.prd?storeId=1130&ds_rl=1272379&ds_rl=1272409&ds_rl=1272379&gclid=CjwKCAiA_Kz-BRAJEiwAhJNY701LLKwCLTwnd0y39teqqB3ipPR1mNHFG0kVKo4TjFbcQPwL8AMASxoCRwMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds 

[Tracy D'arth]

26 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Wear one if those isolation suits with external ventilation plug the vent/breathing pipe to a handy socket installed in a mushroom vent, do all your cooking on an outside BBQ

Have you been outside today? Its beastly.

[zenataomm]

I have a Houdini fitted on my steel boat and have never experienced "condensation-complication".

The reason?

 

 

 

So, clearly inserting it vertically deters accumulation of moisture on the inside.  However it does suggest a suitable boat name is a requirement to counter balance my being too idle to cut off the bars.

 

I think if you installed yours horizontally in the roof with a slight incline either to the stem or stern you'd encourage an automatic drain to the chosen end.  This would be enhanced by wiping the inside of the glass with a little liquid soap every week/fortnight. 

Additionally a small length of the old fashioned foam rubber draught excluder placed at the lowest edge of the frame would act as a wick.  One quick wipe daily of the wick with kitchen towel would set the wick up for the next 24 hours or so.

In the event of a preinstalled Houdini, perhaps re ballasting the boat may provide the incline?

 

You're welcome, and I don't accept cheques. 

Filthy used notes in a brown paper bag, tucked inside the discarded Scooby-Doo child's pack, in the long grass down by the railway tracks is my preferred method.

 

Zenataomm

[magnetman]

Fix a sheet of perspex considerably larger than the opening over the top of the unit and open the hatch. Just a tiny amount.  

 

ETA of you don't know what a tiny amount is then 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by magnetman

[Tracy D'arth]

17 minutes ago, sueb said:

Use the clear plastic double glazing  https://www.diy.com/departments/diall-clear-glazing-window-film-l-4000m-w-1-5m/1802835_BQ.prd?storeId=1130&ds_rl=1272379&ds_rl=1272409&ds_rl=1272379&gclid=CjwKCAiA_Kz-BRAJEiwAhJNY701LLKwCLTwnd0y39teqqB3ipPR1mNHFG0kVKo4TjFbcQPwL8AMASxoCRwMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds 

Its a good try but there is no way it will stay put over that horizontal area of a 500mm square plus the outside wood trim. Plus I lose any ventilation which is necessary when its not like Siberia outside.

I ruled out insulated bungs for similar reasons, they make it dark too.

[Mad Harold]

With double sided tape,stick clear (or tlnted) window film the automotive sort,over your window and Houdini hatch frames.

Where the windows open,stick that section of film with blobs of blu tack for easy folding back.

[magnetman]

It's all about breaking the thermal thing or providing air movement. 

 

If you need to use it occasionally for ventilation then always use it for ventilation but put a large cover over it to stop rain getting in. 

 

I did once stick a large perspex dome over the top of an opening roof hatch with PU18 sealant but that was to do with leakage around the flange rather than condensation. It did defeat the useability as a ventilation device but also stopped the water getting in. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by magnetman

[Tracy D'arth]

4 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

I have a Houdini fitted on my steel boat and have never experienced "condensation-complication".

The reason?

 

 

 

So, clearly inserting it vertically deters accumulation of moisture on the inside.  However it does suggest a suitable boat name is a requirement to counter balance my being too idle to cut off the bars.

 

I think if you installed yours horizontally in the roof with a slight incline either to the stem or stern you'd encourage an automatic drain to the chosen end.  This would be enhanced by wiping the inside of the glass with a little liquid soap every week/fortnight. 

Additionally a small length of the old fashioned foam rubber draught excluder placed at the lowest edge of the frame would act as a wick.  One quick wipe daily of the wick with kitchen towel would set the wick up for the next 24 hours or so.

In the event of a preinstalled Houdini, perhaps re ballasting the boat may provide the incline?

 

You're welcome, and I don't accept cheques. 

Filthy used notes in a brown paper bag, tucked inside the discarded Scooby-Doo child's pack, in the long grass down by the railway tracks is my preferred method.

 

Zenataomm

Good to see there are others with a sense of humour,

Its not an occasional quick wipe down daily, its flood control and one is over the bed! The dehumidifier is currently finding around 5 litres a day! And still the ally frames are dripping.

They are all central in the roof so horizontal, drips all around.

[magnetman]

Have you got wet bilges ?

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

With double sided tape,stick clear (or tlnted) window film the automotive sort,over your window and Houdini hatch frames.

Where the windows open,stick that section of film with blobs of blu tack for easy folding back.

That auto film tint is a water based glue, it falls off in minutes. Besides it has near zero "U" value.

The ally frame is both around the glass and the outer frame, unless I can find a way of insulating both all over it defeats all attempts. The glass is less of a problem, its the damn metal framing and handles which full up with water.

[magnetman]

Air flow

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Have you got wet bilges ?

Cheeky, come and check!

 

No, they are dry and ventilated front to back by the engine which draws combustion air from there.

 

The breathing at night is the worst, I've tried stopping but the hospital told be its not a good idea. Even stopped smoking years ago.

I even get condensation on the flying saucer roof vents which drips through.

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Air flow

Er, Yes open the Houdinis but its raining!

 

There is no denying heating and ventilation will cure the problem, maybe, but to get it to work, it renders the boat un-heatable and uninhabitable. I am burning 50kg plus of anthracite a week now.

 

I hate British winters.

[GUMPY]

I use clear acrylic cut to fit the roof held on with magnetic tape and two screws. I forgot to bring it up to the boat this time so am suffering from the drips. Not to much of a problem as I have a tiled floor

 

[TheBiscuits]

11 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Have you got wet bilges ?

 

That's a good thing to check.   It sounds as if there's a lot of water in the air in this boat, and the OP has already ruled out the only way of stopping condensation on the hatches (insulate them so much that they are no longer the coldest spot in the boat) 

 

TD, do you have (or can borrow) a hygrometer to measure the relative humidity inside your boat?  It varies with air temperature so you'll need it for a few days or weeks to monitor.  if it's too high, there is a serious risk of mould growth that you could really do without ...

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by TheBiscuits
spellink

[Bee]

Double sided foam tape stuff, thin perspex, nice dry day, stick it on somehow with an air gap. I have two pigeon boxes / dog boxes, call them what you will,  both have two leaves and the perspex is on the outside, the wood is always dry, cannot rot or trap water and there is no condensation. Its all about the air gap. Do you want me to send lots of double glazing salesmen round to demonstrate their products?

[Tracy D'arth]

9 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That's a good thing to check.   It sounds as if there's a lot of water in the air in this boat, and the OP has already ruled out the only way of stopping condensation on the hatches (insulate them so much that they are no longer the coldest spot in the boat) 

 

TD, do you have (or can borrow) a hygrometer to measure the relative humidity inside your boat?  It varies with air temperature so you'll need it for a few days or weeks to monitor.  if it's too high, there is a serious risk of mould growth that you could really do without ...

 

 

Never get mould. Hygrometer normally reads around 65%, obviously down to 55% in summer. Dehumidifier is at present holding it down to 62% and still the Houdinis and nothing else on the boat except the area around the weed hatch which is not insulated, are dripping water, They are better dehumidifiers than the real one! Shame they are inside!

 

Does anyone make insulated plastic framed double glazed roof lights that open?  The single glazed plastic framed porthole are fine, not a drip, just a thin film of moisture in a morning.  Its the aluminium that's a beggar.

3 minutes ago, Bee said:

Double sided foam tape stuff, thin perspex, nice dry day, stick it on somehow with an air gap. I have two pigeon boxes / dog boxes, call them what you will,  both have two leaves and the perspex is on the outside, the wood is always dry, cannot rot or trap water and there is no condensation. Its all about the air gap. Do you want me to send lots of double glazing salesmen round to demonstrate their products?

That's fine but it still does nothing for the ally outer frame which shows inside. The glass area is not too bad, its the metalwork.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[Bee]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

!

That's fine but it still does nothing for the ally outer frame which shows inside. The glass area is not too bad, its the metalwork.

Ah, that is difficult. Maybe cork strips cut from tiles might work? stuck with some sort of glue that doesn't stay on the metal for ever? Good luck with it, condensation is horrible.

[Tracy D'arth]

Just now, Bee said:

Ah, that is difficult. Maybe cork strips cut from tiles might work? stuck with some sort of glue that doesn't stay on the metal for ever? Good luck with it, condensation is horrible.

I've emptied the buckets, getting into my wet suit to watch a Lewis free qually at Bahrain then go to bed in my waders, thank for the suggestions, still need a solution though.

 

[Mad Harold]

18 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

That auto film tint is a water based glue, it falls off in minutes. Besides it has near zero "U" value.

The ally frame is both around the glass and the outer frame, unless I can find a way of insulating both all over it defeats all attempts. The glass is less of a problem, its the damn metal framing and handles which full up with water.

On my boat the window film is stuck to the ally window frame with clear double sided tape which sticks like ----  to a blanket.It gives an air gap of about 3/4 of an inch.There is no problem with condensation.

Not trying to be clever with a boater of your experience but,are you sure that your hatch/windows havn't got a leak running behind the trim?

It does sound like rather a lot of moisture for condensation.

[magnetman]

22 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Er, Yes open the Houdinis but its raining!

 

There is no denying heating and ventilation will cure the problem, maybe, but to get it to work, it renders the boat un-heatable and uninhabitable. I am burning 50kg plus of anthracite a week now.

 

I hate British winters.

This is why further up I suggested fixing a large sheet of perspex onto the top of the Houdini hatch. 

 

You can do this by running a bead of PU18 or sikaflex down each bar then dropping the perspex sheet on. 

 

4x4ft would probably be ok. 

 

That way you can open the hatch a bit and not get rain coming in. 

 

 

Good post above about possible leakage around the frame.