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Victron Phoenix Inverter AC In...from Shoreline


Lumisid

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Hi all

ive got a Victron Inverter compact 2000v which has 240v running through it (AC in and AC out). I recently had the opportunity to plug the boat in (via the shoreline) but Inverter doesn't seem to have a bypass while it's switched off. So no power was coming through.

there is no A/B selector to choose from to distribute power (shoreline or Inverter). The line goes: Shoreline-galvanic isolator-Inverter in-inverter out-rcd fuses- sockets etc. cant find anything in the manual regarding this but as I've said, on shoreline if the Inverter is off, there is no power. Unsure to switch it on with 240v going through it in case i cause some damage. Any ideas? 

 

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The inverter self-selects the correct power source (if it is the same as my Multiplus of the same size). With the Multiplus you can switch off, on, or charger only. When on and connected to shore power, it will source 230V from the incoming shore power and charge the batteries. When on with no 230V, it will invert. Charger only charges the batteries but doesn't supply 230V to the domestic side. Off obviously means exactly that — no 230V supplied to the domestic side even with the shore power plugged in.

 

It's a much neater solution, in my humble opinion, than having a manual changeover switch. Plug and play — just remember to unplug your [immersion heater/kettle/fan heaters] if you wander off your mooring ?

Edited by tehmarks
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50 minutes ago, tehmarks said:

The inverter self-selects the correct power source (if it is the same as my Multiplus of the same size). With the Multiplus you can switch off, on, or charger only. When on and connected to shore power, it will source 230V from the incoming shore power and charge the batteries. When on with no 230V, it will invert. Charger only charges the batteries but doesn't supply 230V to the domestic side. Off obviously means exactly that — no 230V supplied to the domestic side even with the shore power plugged in.

 

It's a much neater solution, in my humble opinion, than having a manual changeover switch. Plug and play — just remember to unplug your [immersion heater/kettle/fan heaters] if you wander off your mooring ?

Thanks. I only have an inverter not inverter/charger so unsure if it will source the incoming power (as you suggest) 

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16 minutes ago, Lumisid said:

Thanks. I only have an inverter not inverter/charger so unsure if it will source the incoming power (as you suggest) 

The Phoenix and Multiplus are very similar product lines. There's no reason for an inverter to take AC in unless it has a changeover feature, so I'd imagine it almost certainly has. I'm not sure even the most determined moron would miswire one so egregiously (and not notice).

 

That said, I can't see any obvious reference in the manual to such a feature. Stanby. Is it definitely this particular model?

 

Edit: The manual and datasheet imply that there is not such a feature. Is there any chance you can take a few photos of the inverter and the installation?

Edited by tehmarks
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1 hour ago, tehmarks said:

The Phoenix and Multiplus are very similar product lines. There's no reason for an inverter to take AC in unless it has a changeover feature, so I'd imagine it almost certainly has. I'm not sure even the most determined moron would miswire one so egregiously (and not notice).

 

That said, I can't see any obvious reference in the manual to such a feature. Stanby. Is it definitely this particular model?

 

Edit: The manual and datasheet imply that there is not such a feature. Is there any chance you can take a few photos of the inverter and the installation?

Definately this model. If you follw the line 240 comes in the boat goes through the galvanic isolator then inverter then to Rcd then sockets and immersion

D2ECF05D-931B-41B7-B286-105C59BEBDDE.jpeg

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It’s a bit confusing! The manual implies no changeover and yet the photo shows mains wires in and out. Is it possible that someone has somehow installed a changeover relay inside the inverter? Maybe you should take the bottom cover over the connection area off and have a look (post a photo).

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1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

It’s a bit confusing! The manual implies no changeover and yet the photo shows mains wires in and out. Is it possible that someone has somehow installed a changeover relay inside the inverter? Maybe you should take the bottom cover over the connection area off and have a look (post a photo).

Yes... the manual refers to a desire for an automatic changeover switch, and suggests that "you" buy a Multiplus or a Quattro, if that is the case.

 

There must be something "extra" for that second cable to connect to and, as you suggest, it needs a photo, plus a close up.

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

It’s a bit confusing! The manual implies no changeover and yet the photo shows mains wires in and out. Is it possible that someone has somehow installed a changeover relay inside the inverter? Maybe you should take the bottom cover over the connection area off and have a look (post a photo).

Got a close up, def an ac in going on...somehow...

03354BE4-5082-4D42-BB65-1BC1621BD5C1.jpeg

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Yes... the manual refers to a desire for an automatic changeover switch, and suggests that "you" buy a Multiplus or a Quattro, if that is the case.

 

There must be something "extra" for that second cable to connect to and, as you suggest, it needs a photo, plus a close up.

 

52 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I have one of those, but it doesn't have a transfer relay. I think, as @Richard10002 says above, you need a Multiplus or Quattro for that feature. Are you sure you have AC in? 

 

(I hope I'm wrong - it would be a lovely surprise!) 

I put a pic up, there is an AC in you can see at the bottom of pic 

Edited by Lumisid
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Hmm, I'm not at the boat at the moment  so I can't check my own invetter, but are there connections by those "AC In" markings or is that an unused legacy on the board?

 

Is this a fit out you've inherited? Two reds as the DC supply to the inverter is an interesting move. Perhaps it's not the only unusual departure by the previous owner?

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1 hour ago, Lumisid said:

Got a close up, def an ac in going on...somehow...

03354BE4-5082-4D42-BB65-1BC1621BD5C1.jpeg

 

I put a pic up, there is an AC in you can see at the bottom of pic 

I’m struggling to see what’s going on there, any chance of a few more pics from different angles and distances?

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In the close up, it is obvious that one of the AC cables connects to the white box thing with 3 inputs for wires, Live, Neutral and Earth.

 

There is no sign of where the other cable ends up. There is no doubt that 2 cables go in - I wonder if you can take a photo showing where the second one is routed, and what it is connected to?

 

Does the bottom blue front panel come off? There is a screw visible which suggests it does. If you remove that, it should reveal more.

Edited by Richard10002
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57 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Hmm, I'm not at the boat at the moment  so I can't check my own invetter, but are there connections by those "AC In" markings or is that an unused legacy on the board?

 

Is this a fit out you've inherited? Two reds as the DC supply to the inverter is an interesting move. Perhaps it's not the only unusual departure by the previous owner?

Colecraft did the electrics...it was a sailaway

49 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I’m struggling to see what’s going on there, any chance of a few more pics from different angles and distances?

 

74C4B453-232F-4576-B66A-582F4608BF81.jpeg

49 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

In the close up, it is obvious that one of the AC cables connects to the white box thing with 3 inputs for wires, Live, Neutral and Earth.

 

There is no sign of where the other cable ends up. There is no doubt that 2 cables go in - I wonder if you can take a photo showing where the second one is routed, and what it is connected to?

 

Does the bottom blue front panel come off? There is a screw visible which suggests it does. If you remove that, it should reveal more.

I’ve included a pic won’t let me load anymore. 

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You can see where it says “ac in” there are just holes in the pcb, there is no connector. There do seem to be 2 sets of mains cable connected, one will be to the mains out but can you see where the other is connected? The earth wire is in the way! Is it direct to the holes in the PCB? If so, maybe someone was hopeful that it would work, but of course it won’t since this is not a Combi. Probably never worked from new! There are plenty of numpties in boatyards who don’t know what they are doing with fancy electronics!

 

I think you will need to extract the shore power in cable and install a separate changeover switch. This needs to be double pole break before make. Or you can get automatic ones that automatically change over to shore power when it is present.

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

If so, maybe someone was hopeful that it would work, but of course it won’t since this is not a Combi. Probably never worked from new! There are plenty of numpties in boatyards who don’t know what they are doing with fancy electronics!

It seems I may have been wrong when I said:

9 hours ago, tehmarks said:

I'm not sure even the most determined moron would miswire one so egregiously (and not notice).

?

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A bad possibility is that someone wired their mains incoming wires to the same terminals as the mains out. This would be terminal (sorry) for the inverter if the mains in were ever connected to a shore line, or generator as it would likely destroy the inverter unless the mains were exactly in phase to stop the magic smoke escaping.

Jen

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11 hours ago, PaulJ said:

You dont think maybe your boat had a combi in originally and someone has changed to an inverter? 

Just the board is identical to my Multiplus except you are missing the 'In' terminal. 

Where does the other live/neutral actually attach to?

Inverter installed from new

9 hours ago, nicknorman said:

You can see where it says “ac in” there are just holes in the pcb, there is no connector. There do seem to be 2 sets of mains cable connected, one will be to the mains out but can you see where the other is connected? The earth wire is in the way! Is it direct to the holes in the PCB? If so, maybe someone was hopeful that it would work, but of course it won’t since this is not a Combi. Probably never worked from new! There are plenty of numpties in boatyards who don’t know what they are doing with fancy electronics!

 

I think you will need to extract the shore power in cable and install a separate changeover switch. This needs to be double pole break before make. Or you can get automatic ones that automatically change over to shore power when it is present.

I’m thinking along those lines. Installing a change over switch seems the simplest way to go, thanks 

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A bad possibility is that someone wired their mains incoming wires to the same terminals as the mains out. This would be terminal (sorry) for the inverter if the mains in were ever connected to a shore line, or generator as it would likely destroy the inverter unless the mains were exactly in phase to stop the magic smoke escaping.

Jen

Sure, definately not wired to the same terminals though 

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6 hours ago, Lumisid said:

Inverter installed from new

I’m thinking along those lines. Installing a change over switch seems the simplest way to go, thanks 

Sure, definately not wired to the same terminals though 

Looks like the cable is wired to the PCB at the AC IN point, but then goes nowhere - hence the lack of shorepower at the first time of asking.

 

At least you've found the issue. Automatic changeover would be best - but my guess is that they are probably 10 times the price of a manual changeover?

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1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Looks like the cable is wired to the PCB at the AC IN point, but then goes nowhere - hence the lack of shorepower at the first time of asking.

 

At least you've found the issue. Automatic changeover would be best - but my guess is that they are probably 10 times the price of a manual changeover?

I use shoreline so seldomly, I think a manual will be fine

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I will be on Shoreline for 3 days later this month...I've got 670ah battery bank that I would like to put a charger on while I'm plugged in. I'll be arriving fully charged so presumably the batts will just need to be maintained throughout the stay....Can I getaway with strapping a little Ctek 5a on ? Only real load on the 12v is a very economical Inlander fridge, LEDS, pumps and device charging. Any tips? 

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