Washer dryer

[George and Dragon]

6 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Jeff has a problem with hay fever and asthma and thinks that washing left on a line collects pollen which makes him ill. Not sure I totally believe that but even if it’s psychological, that doesn’t really matter.

I also suffer from hayfever but have never heard that tale before. It doesn't make it untrue but frankly the pollen in the air bothers me far more than any that might have landed on the washing. And, of course, different people suffer differently with hayfever - I find I can mostly bear it so long as I have sodium cromoglycate eye drops to hand...

[Detling]

17 hours ago, IanD said:

All the manufacturers quote kWh and drying time for a full load, which is where my figures came from -- so unless you have a miraculous vented drier which somehow has double the efficiency that manufacturers claim (and I can't believe that they'd be pessimistic, if anything exactly the opposite) you're using a part load ?

 

The objection was to running a tumble dryer on normal batteries/inverter, not a 600Ah lithium bank that will happily supply hundreds of amps.

 

So like I said, buy one which uses half the energy or not, it's your choice, but at least the option is there if you want it ?

The manufacturer's do not quote comparison of alternatives. A vented drier is more efficient at drying than a condenser dryer, because it sucks in air that is drier than the output of the condenser. So currently as all heat pump drier's are condenser they compare to condenser driers. If you compare condenser driers with vented driers you find that vented driers win quite handsomely. 

We have not had a heat pump but have got both condenser and vented, both with 2kW heating elements, vented takes 50 mins to get load dry, condenser takes 80 mins to the same dryness. Also we have the condenser in an understated cupboard, if you have the cupboard door shut it take a about twice as long as with it open, I can only think that is down to recirculation of moist exhaust air, like a condenser versus a vented. 

I think that a vented drier on a boat since it exhausts it's moist air overboard, will not add to the moisture inside but a condenser or heat pump will, thus causing even more wet windows.

[mrsmelly]

22 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Hmmm, any reason why I wouldn’t be domesticated?
 

Anyway we do tend to use the drier at home even when we could put the washing on the line (and Aberdeen is, after all, one of the drier parts of Scotland). 2 reasons, one being that Jeff has a problem with hay fever and asthma and thinks that washing left on a line collects pollen which makes him ill. Not sure I totally believe that but even if it’s psychological, that doesn’t really matter.
 

And secondly, there is a big difference between line dried washing and tumble dried washing. Even with the use of fabric conditioner line dried washing is always rather hard and nasty. Better if it’s then ironed, of course, but ironing is one step of domestication too far now that I am retired and no longer have to go to work looking like a pilot!

 

Tumble dried washing (from a vented drier) comes out all soft and fluffy, and thus is ideally suited to being put next to my very delicate and soft self.

 

And both of us hate damp washing hanging around on a boat - and we don’t have a cratch cover!

Very wise, worst bit of kit on a boat. However we dont tumble anymore we hang in the designated laundry room on the boat, gave the tumble dryer away to one of the kids.

[IanD]

8 hours ago, Detling said:

The manufacturer's do not quote comparison of alternatives. A vented drier is more efficient at drying than a condenser dryer, because it sucks in air that is drier than the output of the condenser. So currently as all heat pump drier's are condenser they compare to condenser driers. If you compare condenser driers with vented driers you find that vented driers win quite handsomely. 

We have not had a heat pump but have got both condenser and vented, both with 2kW heating elements, vented takes 50 mins to get load dry, condenser takes 80 mins to the same dryness. Also we have the condenser in an understated cupboard, if you have the cupboard door shut it take a about twice as long as with it open, I can only think that is down to recirculation of moist exhaust air, like a condenser versus a vented. 

I think that a vented drier on a boat since it exhausts it's moist air overboard, will not add to the moisture inside but a condenser or heat pump will, thus causing even more wet windows.

All the manufacturer figures for energy use and drying time for all types of dryer have to be from tests done to the same standards -- same weight of washing, same amount of water at the start, same moisture content at the end, same room temperature and so on. If you do things differently like putting a condenser drier in a cupboard you'll get different results. The energy usage shows that heat pump dryers are typically twice as energy efficient as both vented and condensing dryers -- if you don't believe me, go and look at the numbers.

 

But they take the longest time to dry, and vented dryers take the shortest. Vented driers also have a hidden energy cost in that (in winter) they take your nice warm dry air from inside the boat and blow it outside as moist air, your heating system has to replace this warm air and there's a cost to doing that. Heat pump driers don't pull in any air from outside or blow it out damp, they just recirculate it round inside the machine with it getting drier all the time.

 

These are all facts, not anecdotes. If you don't like or believe them, take it up with the manufacturers and/or the government who specifies how the tests should be done, don't blame me ?

[nicknorman]

31 minutes ago, IanD said:

All the manufacturer figures for energy use and drying time for all types of dryer have to be from tests done to the same standards -- same weight of washing, same amount of water at the start, same moisture content at the end, same room temperature and so on. If you do things differently like putting a condenser drier in a cupboard you'll get different results. The energy usage shows that heat pump dryers are typically twice as energy efficient as both vented and condensing dryers -- if you don't believe me, go and look at the numbers.

 

But they take the longest time to dry, and vented dryers take the shortest. Vented driers also have a hidden energy cost in that (in winter) they take your nice warm dry air from inside the boat and blow it outside as moist air, your heating system has to replace this warm air and there's a cost to doing that. Heat pump driers don't pull in any air from outside or blow it out damp, they just recirculate it round inside the machine with it getting drier all the time.

 

These are all facts, not anecdotes. If you don't like or believe them, take it up with the manufacturers and/or the government who specifies how the tests should be done, don't blame me ?

The point about venting cabin temperature out of the boat is of course true, but then boats need lots of ventilation anyway so I practice I don’t think there is any significant loss, especially when it’s for less than an hour. But anyway I don’t think it costs any more in energy - the fire doesn’t suddenly burn more coal as a consequence, but possibly the cabin temperature is reduced a bit. When we are tumble drying in winter we do it when cruising and we have the option to switch on the engine-to-central heating heat exchanger to get additional “free heat” (free in that it would otherwise be dumped into the canal). And being a trad, the back hatch is open which gives a lot more ventilation that a tumble drier! No doubt all that helps to keep the windows clear.

 

Anyway I totally agree with you that heat pump driers are much more efficient, but that isn’t the whole picture. I would rather consume more energy and have the clothes come out ready to wear or fold away, vs having them come out with massive creases baked into them that a hot steam iron and lots of elbow grease struggles to fix. Have you ever actually used a condenser or heat pump tumble drier? I have (condenser) and they are awful!

Edited December 1, 2020 by nicknorman

[IanD]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

The point about venting cabin temperature out of the boat is of course true, but then boats need lots of ventilation anyway so I practice I don’t think there is any significant loss, especially when it’s for less than an hour. But anyway I don’t think it costs any more in energy - the fire doesn’t suddenly burn more coal as a consequence, but possibly the cabin temperature is reduced a bit. When we are tumble drying in winter we do it when cruising and we have the option to switch on the engine-to-central heating heat exchanger to get additional “free heat” (free in that it would otherwise be dumped into the canal). And being a trad, the back hatch is open which gives a lot more ventilation that a tumble drier! No doubt all that helps to keep the windows clear.

 

Anyway I totally agree with you that heat pump driers are much more efficient, but that isn’t the whole picture. I would rather consume more energy and have the clothes come out ready to wear or fold away, vs having them come out with massive creases baked into them that a hot steam iron and lots of elbow grease struggles to fix. Have you ever actually used a condenser or heat pump tumble drier? I have (condenser) and they are awful!

I said that -- like you -- I hadn't used a heat pump drier, but I've talked to people who have and they didn't report problems like you, thought they did say they took a long time (which is hardly a secret).

 

If it takes more energy it takes more energy, regardless of whether you notice it ?

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

 

If it takes more energy it takes more energy, regardless of whether you notice it ?

But if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[IanD]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

But if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Perhaps the sound of one hand clapping...

[tizzy]

Hi

I use a heat pump dryer at home and am really impressed.It dries at least as quickly as my old vented one.has a crease reduction button and the clothes come out really soft and ready to put away.It is an Electra and was £300 from a well known online retailer. The only thing is having to empty the water if can be plumbed in just not where we have it