Electronic pod propulsion

[peterboat]

16 hours ago, magnetman said:

Give it another ten years and narrow boats with electric pod motors in the rudders will be commonplace. 

 

Modern ones, old ones, it's the way to go. 

 

Current manufacturers are all German, Austrian or czech it seems.. 

 

Torqeedo, Aquamot, Krautler, Marvin, Piktronik to name a few. 

 

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a UK company making these things...

 

 

 

You forgot the Chinese onesie golden motor?

[magnetman]

8 minutes ago, peterboat said:

You forgot the Chinese onesie golden motor?

Golden motor don't do pods do they? I thought their drive units were on top ie outboard motor configuration. 

 

 

ETA I see they do these 

 

Which looking at the specs could probably push a narrow boat but I doubt they are rated for heavy boats. 

 

Interesting though I had not noticed them before. 

 

 

EP Barrus are now branding the other Golden motor outboards but I think they have motor at the top. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by magnetman

[peterboat]

28 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Golden motor don't do pods do they? I thought their drive units were on top ie outboard motor configuration. 

 

 

ETA I see they do these 

 

Which looking at the specs could probably push a narrow boat but I doubt they are rated for heavy boats. 

 

Interesting though I had not noticed them before. 

 

 

EP Barrus are now branding the other Golden motor outboards but I think they have motor at the top. 

They do they also have a range of motors that are very nice

[magnetman]

20 hours ago, mickvw said:

Has anyone else attempted to fit a electric pod propulsion in the rudder of a butty or something similar. I'm thinking this would be a good way to add propulsion to an historical butty ?

Another option might be to do something clever with a motor mounted higher up and a belt drive arrangement of some sort to a prop shaft built into the rudder. 

 

That would probably be cheaper and give a better choice of power unit. 

 

Friend of mine got a G Wiz car for about £300 and stripped the motor and controller out. It's actually a very nice motor good for about 10kw. I could see that built into the main part of the elum itself with a belt drive. Could be a good project. I'd get the elum made in steel and keep the original one in case it doesn't work or look right. 

 

 

Also worth considering thrust issues. It could get a bit awkward if the thrust bearings were just the pots and pintles of the existing rudder. I think you might want oilite or nylon bushings or it might be terribly rattly. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by magnetman

[blackrose]

17 hours ago, mickvw said:

The idear is to power a butty with minimal modification

In that case why not just use a diesel outboard with some sort of mounting bracket on the butty and an extension to the control arm? I knew a guy who used to move a 72ft joey with a 25hp petrol outboard. It was fine in forward on the canal, but difficult to stop in reverse because the prop was too small.

 

I've never really understood the move to electric or hydraulic drive if the power has to come from a diesel generator. I appreciate that in some cases it's done because you can locate the generator in a different place as in the example of a butty, but I've seen traditional looking narrowboats with a generator and hydraulic drive where they could have just installed a diesel engine. I don't really see the benefit and surely any time you convert one form or power to another you lose a bit. Plus it's just more equipment to service and go wrong. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by blackrose

[roland elsdon]

We used to move our converted woolwich butty with a 10 hp petrol outboard, on a bracket on the side. Due to it being on one side it used to turn much faster one way than the other, as the rudder interupted the flow.

it was successful and we went many miles with it.

However that was in the quiet days of the early 80s, when slow progress and boats that could not stop quickly were tolerated.

It was hard and slow with great care having to be taken particularly in wide locks - being not parallel with the walls was a risk, and hopeless in the wind.

Abuse from unsympathetic canal users in the 1990s made us give up and sell the butty.

We considered building the outboard into a steel helum and made up the plans for it, but ended up with a motor to tow her instead.

[mrsmelly]

How long does it take the electric pod to heat the calorifier full of water? 

Edited November 28, 2020 by mrsmelly

[Jen-in-Wellies]

15 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

How long does it take the electric pod to heat the corifier full of water? 

The same length of time it would take in a butty without a motor. Put the kettle on the stove instead. ?

[bizzard]

Moth ball propulsion works well too, it's the camphor or naptha that does it. I used to play boats in the sink, put a chip of moth ball onto the back of a trolley bus ticket and watch it motor around the sink.  A net bag full of moth balls hung on the back of the boat should work well.

       To vary your speed add or subtract balls. To reverse sling the bag of balls over the bows.

Edited November 28, 2020 by bizzard

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The same length of time it would take in a butty without a motor. Put the kettle on the stove instead. ?

Quite so but I c no point in retrograde moves on boats. The beauty of one dose of diesel on my boat is propulsion, oodles of hot water and 3.5 kW of mains lectric. Electric propulsion needs some way of charging it and no way can sun do that today and no hot water produced, a truly backward move innitt. 

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Quite so but I c no point in retrograde moves on boats. The beauty of one dose of diesel on my boat is propulsion, oodles of hot water and 3.5 kW of mains lectric. Electric propulsion needs some way of charging it and no way can sun do that today and no hot water produced, a truly backward move innitt. 

But like it or lump it things are going to change and cleaner methods of propulsion are going to happen which is a great move forward for children breathing clean air 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

13 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Moth ball propulsion works well too, it's the camphor or naptha that does it. I used to play boats in the sink, put a chip of moth ball onto the back of a trolley bus ticket and watch it motor around the sink.  A net bag full of moth balls hung on the back of the boat should work well.

Big elastic band running the length of the boat. Anchored to the stem at one end and to the prop shaft at the other. After breakfast, persuade someone to jump in the canal and turn the prop to wind it up ready for a days cruising. Stopping is a bit of a problem though. The skilled boater is the one who can work out the number of turns needed to get to the next lock without crashing in to the gates, or coming to a stop 200 yards too soon.

There is some hysterisis in loading and unloading elastic, the heat from which I'm sure can be harnessed to heat a calorifier for @mrsmelly. Camphor, or Naptha is probably exothermic, so again a cauliflower full of hot water available.

Jen

Edited November 28, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, peterboat said:

But like it or lump it things are going to change and cleaner methods of propulsion are going to happen which is a great move forward for children breathing clean air 

Completely agree. where we disagree is how it will be achieved and electric is no where near good enough so we need some boffin to come up with something else. 

[bizzard]

7 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Big elastic band running the length of the boat. Anchored to the stem at one end and to the prop shaft at the other. After breakfast, persuade someone to jump in the canal and turn the prop to wind it up ready for a days cruising. Stopping is a bit of a problem though. The skilled boater is the one who can work out the number of turns needed to get to the next lock without crashing in to the gates, or coming to a stop 200 yards too soon.

 Yes, that's good. I did it on here years ago. Also the phut phut tube driven boat with Trixie the gymnast and her incontinent dad.

Edited November 28, 2020 by bizzard

[Jen-in-Wellies]

17 minutes ago, bizzard said:

 Yes, that's good. I did it on here years ago. Also the phut phut tube driven boat with Trixie the gymnast and her incontinent dad.

Lots of RCR call outs from people trying to do the whole length of the Ashby Canal to Snarestone in one go and breaking their elastic by winding it too tight.

[bizzard]

I''l describe the workings of the Phut, phut tube method.  You re-position your boats coal stove into the middle of the boat with the door facing the stern. You bash holes through any bulheads in the way to install a long cast iron drainpipe with one end blank welded up. The blanked of end goes into the stove over the red hot coals. The rear end of the pipe sloping slightly downwards pokes out through the stern with about half of its diameter submerged in the water. It works by water running up the pipe into the red hot blanked off end in the stove where it flashes into flash steam Phut!! and forced back out like a jet to shove the boat along. Once the reaction has started it will keep repeating automatically, Phut, phut, phut, phut, phut, and so on.  This was where Trixie the gymnast came in in my story, to perform up and down on the tube to maintain its most efficient angle.

[magnetman]

40 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Completely agree. where we disagree is how it will be achieved and electric is no where near good enough so we need some boffin to come up with something else. 

The canals are getting busier and life is better by water so perhaps a return to the original design of canals would make sense. Do away with engines and just have horses. 

 

I'm sure there are countless people who are walking down the towing paths thinking "blimey if I could make a living out of towing people's boats from one lock to the next with my mare" 

 

And others of a more advanced mindset must be thinking "brushless motor powered towpath tractors what a hoot!" 

 

Forget water propellers. 

 

Land based haulage is the answer. 

 

And a big wheel in the middle of the boat with teeth sticking out into the canal bed must be an option too. 

 

If you psychologically remove yourself from the problem the possibilities are end less. 

 

 

ETA and solar or go back home to the house if you want hot water. 

 

Living on boats to be banned unless you can demonstrate a non reliance on planet destroying hot water production systems. 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by magnetman

[bizzard]

12 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Lots of RCR call outs from people trying to do the whole length of the Ashby Canal to Snarestone in one go and breaking their elastic by winding it too tight.

Probably used elastic bands that postmen scatter all over the shop they degrade quickly and snap when exposed to daylight., Catapult elastic is best. Underpants elastic snaps easly to. I know because when it happens to me it impedes my forward progess when they end up around my knees, folk wonder what I'm doing when trying to pull em up again when it happens in public.

[sparrowcycles]

7 hours ago, magnetman said:

Golden motor don't do pods do they? I thought their drive units were on top ie outboard motor configuration. 

 

 

ETA I see they do these 

 

Which looking at the specs could probably push a narrow boat but I doubt they are rated for heavy boats. 

 

Interesting though I had not noticed them before. 

 

 

EP Barrus are now branding the other Golden motor outboards but I think they have motor at the top. 

I guess someone could buy two and mount them either side of the elum, perhaps with a fish plate or tunnel over each. 

Might be a cheap way to try it. 

[magnetman]

Bicycle inner tubes are good and often to be found hanging in bushes  disposed of by cyclists who are saving the planet.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The canals are getting busier and life is better by water so perhaps a return to the original design of canals would make sense. Do away with engines and just have horses. 

 

I'm sure there are countless people who are walking down the towing paths thinking "blimey if I could make a living out of towing people's boats from one lock to the next with my mare" 

 

And others of a more advanced mindset must be thinking "brushless motor powered towpath tractors what a hoot!" 

 

Forget water propellers. 

 

Land based haulage is the answer. 

At long last! Someone else on CWDF who actually thinks this is a good idea. ?

 

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Living on boats to be banned unless you can demonstrate a non reliance on planet destroying hot water production systems. 

I'm OK in the summer. Not in the winter, unless I burn wood in the stove for the back boiler.

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[system 4-50]

What are there a lot of on the canals today? Dogs.  The obvious solution is dog-hauled boats.  It would help with the cyclists too.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

What are there a lot of on the canals today? Dogs.    It would help with the cyclists too.

 

 

[dor]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Quite so but I c no point in retrograde moves on boats. The beauty of one dose of diesel on my boat is propulsion, oodles of hot water and 3.5 kW of mains lectric. Electric propulsion needs some way of charging it and no way can sun do that today and no hot water produced, a truly backward move innitt. 

One possible reason is to be able to have a small, modern, efficient, low emission engine somewhere to run a modern efficient generator.  EUR6-type engines seem to be impractical in a narrowboats, but something to drive a generator might be a better option.  And can still give you hot water and auxiliary electrical power.

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, dor said:

One possible reason is to be able to have a small, modern, efficient, low emission engine somewhere to run a modern efficient generator.  EUR6-type engines seem to be impractical in a narrowboats, but something to drive a generator might be a better option.  And can still give you hot water and auxiliary electrical power.

In Fitnesses case 1 hour genny to 5 hours cruising less if the sun is shining on the solar