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Jasonbw

Permanent water hook-up?

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Hello, I'm a clueless newbie and have jumped in with both feet, I have a beautiful 70 foot widebeam that I couldn't be happier with and I'm just spending my third week onboard. I have a particular question which relates to water supply - I'm in a marina and have a water supply from the pedestal where I'm moored and I wonder if there is a hygienic way of making a permanent hookup (well ,until we cruise) from the tap to my water tank, not so that the tap is always on but just so that I can leave the hose in place (with the nozzle I assume sealed/screwed into the tank inlet) without having to clamber along the 4 centimetre wide gunwales when I need a new tankfull! Any wisdom much appreciated, Jason

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36 minutes ago, Jasonbw said:

Hello, I'm a clueless newbie and have jumped in with both feet, I have a beautiful 70 foot widebeam that I couldn't be happier with and I'm just spending my third week onboard. I have a particular question which relates to water supply - I'm in a marina and have a water supply from the pedestal where I'm moored and I wonder if there is a hygienic way of making a permanent hookup (well ,until we cruise) from the tap to my water tank, not so that the tap is always on but just so that I can leave the hose in place (with the nozzle I assume sealed/screwed into the tank inlet) without having to clamber along the 4 centimetre wide gunwales when I need a new tankfull! Any wisdom much appreciated, Jason

This has been discussed previoulsy and I'm sure I remember that it is actually illegal (against the water regulations)

 

I have the WRAS (Water Regulations Advisory Service) documents for water supply to boats, but, it is a Pdf document and the forum does not allow the posting of Pdf's.

Happy to send it to you on receipt of your email address.

 

Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999

Under Section 74 of the Water Industry Act 1991, the Government confers powers and duties to local water undertakers to enforce the Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999. This places a statutory obligation upon water undertakers to make routine inspections on premises within its area of supply. Owners and occupiers of premises and anyone who installs plumbing systems or water fittings have a legal duty to ensure their systems satisfy the Regulations. Failure to comply will result in enforcement notices being served, with the possibility of legal action.

 

Edit to add screen shot :

There is a way to do it with a hose and double check-valves but the permission of the water authority is required.

 

 

 

A couple of extracts  which reference Boats and marinas.

 

Guidelines for the use of hoses to fill boat tanks

 

There are no circumstances in which a hose can be used as a permanent water connection to a mains drinking water standpipe. Mains water delivery systems may be used to fill water bottles and other small storage containers which can then be stored on the boat.

 

At no time shall a hose be left as a permanent connection due to its permeable nature. Such action can lead to a potential contamination risk and may result in legal action and/or possible criminal prosecution by the local water undertaker

Screenshot (51).png

Screenshot (52).png

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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There are garden hose kits that have a nozzle that locks ie toggles , but , well, it's winter, so any hose is best removed and kept in a clean place. Minimise water usage eg marins showers and laundry perhaps?

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Just now, LadyG said:

There are garden hose kits that have a nozzle that locks ie toggles , but , well, it's winter, so any hose is best removed and kept in a clean place. Minimise water usage eg marins showers and laundry perhaps?

 

All you need say is "it is illegal"

 

Nothing to do with garden hose kits.

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And apart from it being illegal, one needs to bear in mind that it has the potential to sink the boat if things go horribly wrong.

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Interesting subject.

 

Permanent water connections on touring caravan sites are very common.

 

But they work via. a float/ballcock arrangement inside an outside water container.

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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In our marina we are surrounded by liveaboards and their water hoses lie along between the slats of the pontoons but not connected at either end. When they need to fill their tank they presumably just connect the hose and disconnect it when they are finished. It is neat as with the hoses being between the slats there s no danger of anyone tripping on them . Possible lifted when there is risk of frost.

 

haggis

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17 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

And apart from it being illegal, one needs to bear in mind that it has the potential to sink the boat if things go horribly wrong.

Which has happened on the Thames

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If your gunwales are only 4cms, rather you than me when out cruising - shows a marked lack of forethought when built.

How often do you need to fill the tank - once a week, once a fortnight? Hardly an onerous task to run a hose from tap to tank, and as has been pointed out, firstly it is winter with the likelihood of frost, secondly there is the danger of the boat accidentally filling completely with water, and thirdly it is, apparently, illegal.

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25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This has been discussed previoulsy and I'm sure I remember that it is actually illegal (against the water regulations)

 

I have the WRAS (Water Regulations Advisory Service) documents for water supply to boats, but, it is a Pdf document and the forum does not allow the posting of Pdf's.

Happy to send it to you on receipt of your email address.

 

Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999

Under Section 74 of the Water Industry Act 1991, the Government confers powers and duties to local water undertakers to enforce the Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999. This places a statutory obligation upon water undertakers to make routine inspections on premises within its area of supply. Owners and occupiers of premises and anyone who installs plumbing systems or water fittings have a legal duty to ensure their systems satisfy the Regulations. Failure to comply will result in enforcement notices being served, with the possibility of legal action.

 

Edit to add screen shot :

There is a way to do it with a hose and double check-valves but the permission of the water authority is required.

 

 

 

A couple of extracts  which reference Boats and marinas.

 

Guidelines for the use of hoses to fill boat tanks

 

There are no circumstances in which a hose can be used as a permanent water connection to a mains drinking water standpipe. Mains water delivery systems may be used to fill water bottles and other small storage containers which can then be stored on the boat.

 

At no time shall a hose be left as a permanent connection due to its permeable nature. Such action can lead to a potential contamination risk and may result in legal action and/or possible criminal prosecution by the local water undertaker

Screenshot (51).png

Screenshot (52).png

Which makes me wonder about legality of these  

image.png.1e1e19e57cb7ec998bf9535ed10512fa.png

4 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

If your gunwales are only 4cms, rather you than me when out cruising - shows a marked lack of forethought when built.

How often do you need to fill the tank - once a week, once a fortnight? Hardly an onerous task to run a hose from tap to tank, and as has been pointed out, firstly it is winter with the likelihood of frost, secondly there is the danger of the boat accidentally filling completely with water, and thirdly it is, apparently, illegal.

Maybe its to get in the VAT regs

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Forget the rules, if you connect your boat to the main water supply and have a pipe on board split or a joint come apart whilst you are away you will come home to a sunken boat.

Bloody stupid idea.

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1 hour ago, Jasonbw said:

Hello, I'm a clueless newbie and have jumped in with both feet, I have a beautiful 70 foot widebeam that I couldn't be happier with and I'm just spending my third week onboard. I have a particular question which relates to water supply - I'm in a marina and have a water supply from the pedestal where I'm moored and I wonder if there is a hygienic way of making a permanent hookup (well ,until we cruise) from the tap to my water tank, not so that the tap is always on but just so that I can leave the hose in place (with the nozzle I assume sealed/screwed into the tank inlet) without having to clamber along the 4 centimetre wide gunwales when I need a new tankfull! Any wisdom much appreciated, Jason

Hi and welcome

Living on a boat is NOT living on land. Connecting water and emptying sewage is a piffling easy minutes each time job and part of boating. Whilst it is possible to leave boat connected to tap there is absolutely no need. After 31 years living aboard I find its so far down the line of problems as to be un noticed.

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1 hour ago, Jasonbw said:

Hello, I'm a clueless newbie and have jumped in with both feet, I have a beautiful 70 foot widebeam that I couldn't be happier with and I'm just spending my third week onboard. I have a particular question which relates to water supply - I'm in a marina and have a water supply from the pedestal where I'm moored and I wonder if there is a hygienic way of making a permanent hookup (well ,until we cruise) from the tap to my water tank, not so that the tap is always on but just so that I can leave the hose in place (with the nozzle I assume sealed/screwed into the tank inlet) without having to clamber along the 4 centimetre wide gunwales when I need a new tankfull! Any wisdom much appreciated, Jason

Won't the pedestal tap be shared by others or have you got your own dedicated one ?

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To save tip toeing along the gunnel why not fit one of those Redshawe fittings to the filler orifice, connect permanently a length of hose to that, the length required to reach your jetty and Stick a hose lock fitting on the end of it, and ues another removeable hose from the pedestal tap to the permanent hose on the boat with a matching hose lock fitting, Or simpler still one long hose from the tank orifice fitting to the stand pipe tap, unplugging it rolling it up and storing it on the boat by the jetty. Either without tip toeing along the boat. When hose is not in use I plug both ends up with conical bits of silicone which collects inside the nozzles of tubes of silicone, stops wee beasties setting up home in there. You can poke the cone out from the small end of the nozzle with a small rod or something.  I have a collection of these poked out silicone cones, Ideal for many things. Temporary bunging up pipe ends, hoses of course, ear plugs. nose plugs for visiting stinky places ect.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This has been discussed previoulsy and I'm sure I remember that it is actually illegal (against the water regulations)

 

I have the WRAS (Water Regulations Advisory Service) documents for water supply to boats, but, it is a Pdf document and the forum does not allow the posting of Pdf's.

Happy to send it to you on receipt of your email address.

 

Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999

Under Section 74 of the Water Industry Act 1991, the Government confers powers and duties to local water undertakers to enforce the Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999. This places a statutory obligation upon water undertakers to make routine inspections on premises within its area of supply. Owners and occupiers of premises and anyone who installs plumbing systems or water fittings have a legal duty to ensure their systems satisfy the Regulations. Failure to comply will result in enforcement notices being served, with the possibility of legal action.

 

Edit to add screen shot :

There is a way to do it with a hose and double check-valves but the permission of the water authority is required.

 

 

 

A couple of extracts  which reference Boats and marinas.

 

Guidelines for the use of hoses to fill boat tanks

 

There are no circumstances in which a hose can be used as a permanent water connection to a mains drinking water standpipe. Mains water delivery systems may be used to fill water bottles and other small storage containers which can then be stored on the boat.

 

At no time shall a hose be left as a permanent connection due to its permeable nature. Such action can lead to a potential contamination risk and may result in legal action and/or possible criminal prosecution by the local water undertaker

Screenshot (51).png

Screenshot (52).png

 

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Thank you all so much for your replies to this, it is genuinely much appreciated.  Less thanks to the few who were a wee bit more negative.  Blizzard, your reply seems to give me the best solution, silicone bungs it is! I had not planned to leave an open tap connected to my boat, just a connected link, so I think the sinking issue is unlikely (and indeed the tank has an overflow that goes overboard).  Cheers everybody! 

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7 minutes ago, Jasonbw said:

Thank you all so much for your replies to this, it is genuinely much appreciated.  Less thanks to the few who were a wee bit more negative.  Blizzard, your reply seems to give me the best solution, silicone bungs it is! I had not planned to leave an open tap connected to my boat, just a connected link, so I think the sinking issue is unlikely (and indeed the tank has an overflow that goes overboard).  Cheers everybody! 

The tank might have an overflow that goes overboard, but the concern is for a leak BEYOND the tank, and that could easily result in a flooded or sunk boat. It has happened!!
That is why this is a stupid idea.

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1 minute ago, Graham Davis said:

The tank might have an overflow that goes overboard, but the concern is for a leak BEYOND the tank, and that could easily result in a flooded or sunk boat. It has happened!!
That is why this is a stupid idea.

I'm normally one for going easy on newbies but we seem to have here somebody who has no interest what so ever in listening to much more experienced boaters.

 

Being blunt, leave him to it.

 

If he sinks his boat. So be it.

 

He was warned.

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Surly its not an bad idea though if you just treat it like you normally would i.e. only turn it on when you need to top it up, and keep an eye on it?  If I leave the hose running too long at the moment I risk a flood, I just want to avoid having to run it out and connect it each time.  I can't see why the risk would be any greater or am I missing something? I would happily disconnect it and plug it at the standpipe end, so no risk  when not connected

 

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18 minutes ago, Jasonbw said:

Thank you all so much for your replies to this, it is genuinely much appreciated.  Less thanks to the few who were a wee bit more negative.  Blizzard, your reply seems to give me the best solution, silicone bungs it is! I had not planned to leave an open tap connected to my boat, just a connected link, so I think the sinking issue is unlikely (and indeed the tank has an overflow that goes overboard).  Cheers everybody! 

Always remove your hose from the stand pipe tap old bean. Someone like children could come along and turn it on.  Also ALWAYS switch off your boats fresh water pump when leaving your boat unattended. For fear of a big plumbing leak suddenly happening especially if you have plastic piping. If it should happen your fresh on demand water pump will start up and flood the boat out.

  • Greenie 1

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Just now, Jasonbw said:

Surly its not an bad idea though if you just treat it like you normally would i.e. only turn it on when you need to top it up, and keep an eye on it?  If I leave the hose running too long at the moment I risk a flood, I just want to avoid having to run it out and connect it each time.  I can't see why the risk would be any greater or am I missing something? I would happily disconnect it and plug it at the standpipe end, so no risk  when not connected

 

Then you have defeated the object of a permanently connected supply.

 

Just leave it hanging on the tap at the pedastel, push it on the tap, turn the tap on.

 

Job done.

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3 minutes ago, Jasonbw said:

Surly its not an bad idea though if you just treat it like you normally would i.e. only turn it on when you need to top it up, and keep an eye on it?  If I leave the hose running too long at the moment I risk a flood, I just want to avoid having to run it out and connect it each time.  I can't see why the risk would be any greater or am I missing something? I would happily disconnect it and plug it at the standpipe end, so no risk  when not connected

 

The problem is very unlikely but really does happen, you have a pipe burst of some kind (within the boats plumbing system) so the water pump runs continuously, normally it only empties the water tank (which is still very bad) but with a permanent hose connection it sinks the boat. I suspect you might get some skepticism here because you have a 70 foot widebeam ( which is too big for most waterways) and are looking to convert it to a "plumbed in house" rather than a boat. Filling the water tank is a normal part of boating. There is increasing bad feeling towards lots of people now wanting to own "houses on the canal" but not to be boaters.

 

..................Dave

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10 minutes ago, Jasonbw said:

Surly its not an bad idea though if you just treat it like you normally would i.e. only turn it on when you need to top it up, and keep an eye on it?  If I leave the hose running too long at the moment I risk a flood, I just want to avoid having to run it out and connect it each time.  I can't see why the risk would be any greater or am I missing something? I would happily disconnect it and plug it at the standpipe end, so no risk  when not connected

 

That's fine, but then it's not a permanent water hook up as stated in your title, it's just an empty hose hanging from the pedestal to your boat.

 

By the way, if your boat is properly designed you shouldn't risk a flood by leaving the tap running too long. It should just overflow through the bow well deck scuppers or over the side if your water tank filler is on the gunwale.

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

The problem is very unlikely but really does happen, you have a pipe burst of some kind (within the boats plumbing system) so the water pump runs continuously, normally it only empties the water tank (which is still very bad) but with a permanent hose connection it sinks the boat. I suspect you might get some skepticism here because you have a 70 foot widebeam ( which is too big for most waterways) and are looking to convert it to a "plumbed in house" rather than a boat. Filling the water tank is a normal part of boating. There is increasing bad feeling towards lots of people now wanting to own "houses on the canal" but not to be boaters.

 

..................Dave

Hes now saying he would only turn it on when needed, and 'will keep an eye on it'.

 

So a bit like what everybody does when filling the tank.

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