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phasing out of fossil fuels - programme

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12 hours ago, Iain_S said:

These days, round our way, quite a large number of street lights have a 16A commando socket attached. Used for Christmas decorations. 

Us to. Until MK Council decreed (in their wisdom) that any structural load on a lamp post would require a mechanical integrity test - at the expense of those wanting to add the load. £80 per lamp post. So this year we will have half the number of Christmas Lights with the saving to pay for a mechanical test of the half that do have Christmas Lights on.

 

BTW - Our Commando's had an internal timer which was dusk to midnight - anyone "borrowing" one to charge a vehicle might find it less than charged in the morning!

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11 hours ago, StephenA said:

I've repeatedly asked that question but there seems to be no answer.  Even if you use lamp posts as distribution points you're still going to have cables all over the place ... and what's to stop the scrotes coming down in the middle of the night and pulling all the plugs out.

 

A typical sodium discharge streetlight has a 150 - 200 watt bulb. The internal cabling will be sized to match this, allowing for volt drop over long runs.

 

Assuming it has been converted to LED, it will have a 20 or 25 watt bulb, leaving 125 - 175 watts for charging of EV's. 

 

A Tesla takes 29 hours to charge up on a 3kw mains socket...

Edited by cuthound
Drop, not drip, bluddy spillchucker
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Lurv it - its amazing how 'leaky' some of those old cables can be.

 

 

 

Damn, and I thought I had spotted it and amended it before anyone noticed. 😣

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6 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

A typical sodium discharge streetlight has a 150 - 200 watt bulb. The internal cabling will be sized to match this, allowing for volt drop over long runs.

 

Assuming it has been converted to LED, it will have a 20 or 25 watt bulb, leaving 125 - 175 watts for charging of EV's. 

 

A Tesla takes 29 hours to charge up on a 3kw mains socket...

 

CAR.jpeg

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7 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

 

A Tesla takes 29 hours to charge up on a 3kw mains socket...

 

So we need what? 6 to 10Kw per socket? So in our street that's going to mean an additional 700Kw load each night  (plus however much is needed to heat the houses and cook once gas is banned) - well I guess it will keep the pavements frost free......

Edited by StephenA

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33 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

So we need what? 6 to 10Kw per socket? So in our street that's going to mean an additional 700Kw load each night  (plus however much is needed to heat the houses and cook once gas is banned) - well I guess it will keep the pavements frost free......

Why will every body charge them nightly? Having done between 100 - 400 miles every day? My partner and I do between 50 an 100 miles in a week each and we live 16 miles apart 

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46 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

So we need what? 6 to 10Kw per socket? So in our street that's going to mean an additional 700Kw load each night  (plus however much is needed to heat the houses and cook once gas is banned) - well I guess it will keep the pavements frost free......

 

Yes, it is the the local distribution network that people forget when saying the grid can cope. The high voltage side (down to 11kV) can, but the local distribution network, (which is much more expensive to replace because most of it is buried) is always sized to meet the load (plus a small percentage for growth, most of which has aleady been taken up because of its age).

 

Tesla Superchargers are rated at 100kW or 150kW.

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1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes, it is the the local distribution network that people forget when saying the grid can cope. The high voltage side (down to 11kV) can, but the local distribution network, (which is much more expensive to replace because most of it is buried) is always sized to meet the load (plus a small percentage for growth, most of which has aleady been taken up because of its age).

 

Tesla Superchargers are rated at 100kW or 150kW.

Yes and should be used sparingly it's designed to give 80% charge in as short a time as possible. Long slow charging is always best for the batteries 

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Another point is that existing distribution systems are normally designed on the basis that they do not need to deliver maximum current continuously, so that items such as step-down transformers can cool down in periods (such as at night) when there is lower demand. Failure to appreciate this on the railways south of the Thames a few years ago led to the introduction of newer, longer trains with a different load profile from the ones they were replacing that were planned to operate a more intensive service.The substations couldn't cope with the higher demand lasting for a longer period. Thus the new services had to be cut back to something that the substations were capable of suppying to prevent their transformers from being damaged by overheating.

Edited by Ronaldo47
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It's going to be fun. On my street everyone has two cars. In some houses people have offspring and therefore four cars. Luckily I think I'll be willing to give up driving by the time it becomes chaotic. 

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13 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

It's going to be fun. On my street everyone has two cars. In some houses people have offspring and therefore four cars. Luckily I think I'll be willing to give up driving by the time it becomes chaotic. 

Dont worry, it will all be seemless. After all all these minor points will be addressed in far less than nine years and charging points will soon be in abundance nation wide 🤣

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18 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Dont worry, it will all be seemless. After all all these minor points will be addressed in far less than nine years and charging points will soon be in abundance nation wide 🤣

I can’t help but think if petrol cars were introduced today everyone would think the idea was a non-starter because of all the refineries, filling stations, pipelines, tankers etc you’d have to build and run.

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5 minutes ago, phantom_iv said:

I can’t help but think if petrol cars were introduced today everyone would think the idea was a non-starter because of all the refineries, filling stations, pipelines, tankers etc you’d have to build and run.

Sort of. However when that infrastructure started off probably 1 person in a thousand had a car as they were only for the megga rich. Over the years ownership grew and the infrastructure with it. The humungous difference today is there are many millions of cars in the UK and many millions of users and to get such a mountainous task into place within nine years is imho cloud cuckoo land. I do hope I am wrong and the many downsides of electric car ownership can be addressed in such a short time frame.

Edited by mrsmelly

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I like how people think the government care if you cant charge or park your car? Look to Japan no parking space no car! In reality their are far to many cars on the road and the virus has proven that maybe a third of the country can work from home, reps can do business by skype, zoom or team so they dont need cars or offices anymore. I reckon half the cars we have now would be enough and small electric ones would be best

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20 minutes ago, peterboat said:

...........the virus has proven that maybe a third of the country can work from home, reps can do business by skype, zoom or team so they dont need cars or offices anymore

Working from home is possible  but its not necessarily a long term solution. I work in a team at that has been possible only because it was  a team established before Covid.  I cant imagine how a new starter such as a school leaver would be introduced into the workplace if everyone is working from home . 

We have found the missing element of working together in  the office has reduced our productivity. I am convinced that a return to office working will be the way forwards but more flexible working hours and allowing working from home when it is appropriate will be allowed where it was previously discouraged.

We had been using Microsoft Teams conference calling before Covid  in the later part of 2019 and it has been and remains a major part of our normal day in the working from home. 

Teams  has certainly saved  me travelling quite a few thousands of miles by car and I hope this will continue. However I do think things will revert to previous practice after  the vaccinations reduce risk to no worse than any other disease or infection.

Edited by MartynG

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10 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Working from home is possible  but its not necessarily a long term solution. I work in a team at that has been possible only because it was  a team established before Covid.  I cant imagine how a new starter such as a school leaver would be introduced into the workplace if everyone is working from home . 

We have found the missing element of working together in  the office has reduced our productivity. I am convinced that a return to office working will be the way forwards but more flexible working hours and allowing working from home when it is appropriate will be allowed where it was previously discouraged.

We had been using Microsoft Teams conference calling before Covid  in the later part of 2019 and it has been and remains a major part of our normal day in the working from home. 

Teams  has certainly saved  me travelling quite a few thousands of miles by car and I hope this will continue. However I do think things will revert to previous practice after  the vaccinations reduce risk to no worse than any other disease or infection.

Exactly the opposite to my partner Jayne and sister louise productivity gone up office leases going! One works for DWP other council, I think that things will ever go back to how the were, it will save companies millions 

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15 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Exactly the opposite to my partner Jayne and sister louise productivity gone up office leases going! One works for DWP other council, I think that things will ever go back to how the were, it will save companies millions 

I am sure it very much depends on the nature of the work.

 

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On 20/11/2020 at 22:43, StephenA said:

I've repeatedly asked that question but there seems to be no answer.  Even if you use lamp posts as distribution points you're still going to have cables all over the place ... and what's to stop the scrotes coming down in the middle of the night and pulling all the plugs out.

Having lived in a country with far more charging points than the UK (albeit, not one per household), the cables do not get in the way of pedestrians. Not even close to being a problem.

 

I believe the plugs are locked, but I might be wrong.

 

That said, I don't believe the solution is for everyone to have a car as they do now. I don't drive, I'm on my thirties, and it's not been too much of a problem (especially compared to the problem of the climate...). However, it is harder for me to get around in the UK compared to the Netherlands, where I lived. There is much to improve to ensure that those who go carless do not sacrifice their social mobility.

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1 hour ago, phantom_iv said:

I can’t help but think if petrol cars were introduced today everyone would think the idea was a non-starter because of all the refineries, filling stations, pipelines, tankers etc you’d have to build and run.

 

Very true, but ICE vehicle ownership started from zero, over a hundred years ago, and so the infrastructure has built up gradually.

 

With BEVs, all extant vehicle owners will be required to have one over a much shorter timescale, hence the concerns over how the power infrastructure can be developed in such short timescales.

 

Politicians are not noted for attention to detail.

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2 hours ago, phantom_iv said:

I can’t help but think if petrol cars were introduced today everyone would think the idea was a non-starter because of all the refineries, filling stations, pipelines, tankers etc you’d have to build and run.

Let alone digging a couple of thousand miles of canals

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I see that parts of Australia are introducing a tax on electric vehicles on a cents per kilometre basis. Hardly helpful to the cause is it :o

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20 hours ago, peterboat said:

 My partner and I do between 50 an 100 miles in a week each and we live 16 miles apart 

Sounds like a recipe for a long and happy relationship.

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8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I see that parts of Australia are introducing a tax on electric vehicles on a cents per kilometre basis. Hardly helpful to the cause is it :o

Only a matter of common sense really. The lost revenue from fuel duty will have to be made up from somewhere. Other states in Oz and countries are sure to follow. At least those Ozzie states doing it now have had the balls to realise it and act.

 

“It is not fair right now that a family in a Mazda or a Kia is paying to use the roads while a millionaire in an electric Tesla, Porsche or Jaguar gets a free ride,” said IPA CEO Adrian Dwyer, who wrote a thesis on road user charges.

“Electric vehicles … don’t levitate, and they should be paying to use the roads like everyone else.”

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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29 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Only a matter of common sense really. The lost revenue from fuel duty will have to be made up from somewhere. Other states in Oz and countries are sure to follow. At least those Ozzie states doing it now have had the balls to realise it and act.

 

“It is not fair right now that a family in a Mazda or a Kia is paying to use the roads while a millionaire in an electric Tesla, Porsche or Jaguar gets a free ride,” said IPA CEO Adrian Dwyer, who wrote a thesis on road user charges.

“Electric vehicles … don’t levitate, and they should be paying to use the roads like everyone else.”

 

One could argue that taxation should include a weight element (like LGVs) as well as an emissions element.

 

 BEVs weigh more than their ICE equivalents.

 

Personally I would likely see the emissions element cover manufacture and end of life recycling emissions as well.

Edited by cuthound
Phat phingers

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