phasing out of fossil fuels - programme

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Similarly a little over thirty years ago. If you had a rare car with a cataclysmic converter that would only run on unleaded petrol, finding a filling station that stocked it was tricky. Suddenly, it reached a critical density and you were OK. Shortly afterwards, 2 star and 3 star petrol disappeared from the pumps and the offerings were unleaded, 4 star and diesel. A few years later, 4 star went. A little more tricky with electric charging, but it will be a similar S shaped curve. That's the way these things go.

and 5 star for high compression

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Similarly a little over thirty years ago. If you had a rare car with a cataclysmic converter that would only run on unleaded petrol, finding a filling station that stocked it was tricky. Suddenly, it reached a critical density and you were OK. Shortly afterwards, 2 star and 3 star petrol disappeared from the pumps and the offerings were unleaded, 4 star and diesel. A few years later, 4 star went. A little more tricky with electric charging, but it will be a similar S shaped curve. That's the way these things go.

 

In the mid 60's we ran our Zephyr-6 and Zodiac on "5 star" From memory it was 4 gallon for £1 at our local Jet station. 5-Star was phased out in the mid 70's

2-Stroke was a separate pump at the side of the fuel pump, dial in what mixture you wanted and 2-squirts per gallon. Needed it for the 'Ransomes' lawn mower.

 

In the 60's very few phone lines were available and we had a 'party-line' with our neighbour, before you could use it you had to pick up and listen if they were talking and then 'rattle' the hand 'rest' to get a line. Telephone number : Gotham 262

 

Oh, the good old days !!

Edited December 6, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In the 60's very few phone lines were available and we had a 'party-line' with our neighbour, before you could use it you had to pick up and listen if they were talking and then 'rattle' the hand 'rest' to get a line. Telephone number : Gotham 262

This is why Bruce Wayne had the bat signal. How else would he get the call from the mayor of Gotham if the de Enfield's were hogging the party line?

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

This is why Bruce Wayne had the bat signal. How else would he get the call from the mayor of Gotham if the de Enfield's were hogging the party line?

An oft made comparison.

'Ours' was a very small village South of Nottingham and not far from where Tony Dunkly was to keep his boat - we had sheep in a field in Thrumpton ( NO NOT Trumpton !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

An oft made comparison.

'Ours' was a very small village South of Nottingham and not far from where Tony Dunkly was to keep his boat - we had sheep in a field in Thrumpton ( NO NOT Trumpton !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

I know it well. A good friend used to live in Barton in Fabis.

[mrsmelly]

58 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Similarly a little over thirty years ago. If you had a rare car with a cataclysmic converter that would only run on unleaded petrol, finding a filling station that stocked it was tricky. Suddenly, it reached a critical density and you were OK. Shortly afterwards, 2 star and 3 star petrol disappeared from the pumps and the offerings were unleaded, 4 star and diesel. A few years later, 4 star went. A little more tricky with electric charging, but it will be a similar S shaped curve. That's the way these things go.

Not quite the same though. The change to a different fuel just meant a different delivery but utilised the same dispensing equipment. Going from near zero as it is today to a fully working system to cope with millions of cars charging is a much bigger challenge without even considering cost implications of leccy cars. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Not quite the same though. The change to a different fuel just meant a different delivery but utilised the same dispensing equipment. Going from near zero as it is today to a fully working system to cope with millions of cars charging is a much bigger challenge without even considering cost implications of leccy cars. 

Of course not. It is an analogy, to illustrate the effect of tipping points, S shaped curves and how seemingly unlikely transitions tend to look in retrospect. Another, perhaps more comparable one would be the transition from the majority of houses in towns being heated with coal open fires to mostly heating them with natural gas fuelled central heating. Took place over several decades, but something that would have seemed impossible in say the '60's. It needed the replacement of local town gas networks, with the gas made from coal to a national gas grid infrastructure being built, fed from huge rigs in the North Sea. Many millions of pounds in investment to do.

Yes I know gas mains don't serve isolated houses and small villages. Similar to the electric car thing. Some situations just won't work, but for the majority they will. Now we are likely to see home heating transition again in only another few decades.

[nb Innisfree]

ICE diehards will have to decide when, not if, is the best time to make the jump to EV use, no amount of arguing whether it can work or not,  they will have no choice but to accept and fit in or go without. 

[ditchcrawler]

53 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

In the 60's very few phone lines were available and we had a 'party-line' with our neighbour, before you could use it you had to pick up and listen if they were talking and then 'rattle' the hand 'rest' to get a line. Telephone number : Gotham 262

 

Oh, the good old days !!

Scored there, my Father in Law worked for the GPO remember them

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Scored there, my Father in Law worked for the GPO remember them

Indeed I do, all my original cable testing equipment was 'marked' GPO

[George and Dragon]

On 04/12/2020 at 08:39, IanD said:

If we want to drastically reduce the number of cars we need credible alternatives, which could be where CAAS might come in if it's cheap enough, quick and convenient. However much you hate Uber you have to admit that they're convenient and easy to use, but we need something a lot better  -- and that pays taxes, and its drivers properly assuming they're not replaced by robots...

Uber? What's that? Out (not very far) in the sticks Uber might as well not exist. If you want to get around you need a car and a driving licence or be prepared for taxis that might arrive when they say they will.

[nb Innisfree]

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-12-06/uks-first-electric-vehicle-charging-forecourt-to-open-in-essex

[mrsmelly]

5 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-12-06/uks-first-electric-vehicle-charging-forecourt-to-open-in-essex

Thats more like it, will the manufacturers ever get their act together re a single charging method/plug? at present it seems there are different types? After all, the pedals on the floor were standardised many years ago so surely differnt charging point types is easily changed to one type. Im just pleased though that it wont effect me as I will have stopped driving before proper cars have completely been removed, I just hope the second hand costs of good older vehicles like I drive dont go through the roof as the end gets nearer.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

12 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

will the manufacturers ever get their act together re a single charging method/plug? at present it seems there are different types?

Sounds like a job for the EU! ?

[mrsmelly]

28 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Sounds like a job for the EU! ?

They cant even keep their members in line so thankfuly not!! 

[1st ade]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Sounds like a job for the EU! ?

We had an EU directive regarding charge connectors for mobile phones. Apple (paraphrased) said "F*** You, Lightning is the way". Everyone else fell into line,

 

Do Apple make BEV yet?

 

As an aside I was offered a drive (and declined) of a 1930's car with the accelerator in the middle, brake on the right... The owner said he had no problem switching from that to his Morris Traveller which had the conventional arrangement.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

We had an EU directive regarding charge connectors for mobile phones. Apple (paraphrased) said "F*** You, Lightning is the way". Everyone else fell into line,

 

Do Apple make BEV yet?

 

As an aside I was offered a drive (and declined) of a 1930's car with the accelerator in the middle, brake on the right... The owner said he had no problem switching from that to his Morris Traveller which had the conventional arrangement.

 

The EU does seem to have an inflated sense of self-importance.

[magpie patrick]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The EU does seem to have an inflated sense of self-importance.

But also the sense to see that some standardisation is necessary

 

With FF cars there is a standard size of nozzle (two in fact, to restrict options for putting the wrong fuel in) - if one car manufacturer decided that a smaller triangular filler was better, and another wanted one that physically fastened to the car before it would dispense fuel (which is not a bad idea) there would have to be significant duplication of pumps or a brisk trade in jerry cans

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by magpie patrick

[phantom_iv]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Thats more like it, will the manufacturers ever get their act together re a single charging method/plug? at present it seems there are different types

In practice this is less of a problem than it first sounds.

 

For low speed charging pretty much every car sold in the UK/rest of Europe has a “type 2” port.
 

For higher-speed charging there are two main types, CCS (which is just two large extra pins tacked on to the bottom of the type 2 port), and chademo, which is a separate port.

 

CCS seems to be winning the race to become the “de facto” standard in Europe, I suspect chademo ports will pretty much die out on new cars over the next few years.

 

Most rapid chargers tend to just have two cables attached to cater for everyone.

 

Much like apple and the phone chargers, having just two options is manageable, rather than every device having something different.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

31 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

Do Apple make BEV yet?

Funny you should ask. As usual with anything Apple, there is intense secrecy around it. No doubt if it ever does get released, it will be charge through a lightning cable and cost 50% more than any other BEV of similar range/size/performance. It will have pleasingly rounded corners. They will update the software to steadily slow it down so you have to buy the new model, even though it should still work fine. Repairs will be extortionate and can only be done by Apple garages with Apple spares. There will be exclusive Apple lanes on roads and it won't work on regular streets. People will still buy it as it just works and doesn't need regularly turning off and on again. ?

Edited December 7, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Thats more like it, will the manufacturers ever get their act together re a single charging method/plug? at present it seems there are different types? After all, the pedals on the floor were standardised many years ago so surely differnt charging point types is easily changed to one type. Im just pleased though that it wont effect me as I will have stopped driving before proper cars have completely been removed, I just hope the second hand costs of good older vehicles like I drive dont go through the roof as the end gets nearer.

You have to take care with standardisation or things don't improver. Before its standardized you have to decide which is the best, but your right, imagine with brand A car you could only fill with petrol at Tesco, but with brand C diesel you had to go to morrisons.

[Phoenix_V]

I havent had time to read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted before but here is some more info on the (embryonic) plans for hydrogen or ammoinia powered freighters https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201127-how-hydrogen-fuel-could-decarbonise-shipping?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

[Sea Dog]

Yeah, let's show these EU common standards folk how to do it the British way -  soon we'll be able to carry a UK 3 pin plug to each of Micro USB, USB C, IOS lightning connector and whatever else comes next and we'll be able to meet all our mobile phone charging needs right from our personal union flagged wheelbarrow full of adapters!

 

 

[magpie patrick]

1 hour ago, 1st ade said:

Apple (paraphrased) said "F*** You, Lightning is the way". Everyone else fell into line,

 

Would I be right in thinking that if the EU had decided that Apple's Lightning was the way to go, Apple would have waited for them to adopt it and then changed their own? 

Far be it for me to suggest that Apple are deliberately non-conformist!

[Alan de Enfield]

33 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Yeah, let's show these EU common standards folk how to do it the British way -  soon we'll be able to carry a UK 3 pin plug to each of Micro USB, USB C, IOS lightning connector and whatever else comes next and we'll be able to meet all our mobile phone charging needs right from our personal union flagged wheelbarrow full of adapters!

 

 

 

One of these

 

Allows the use of electrical equipment from around the world including :

EU twin round with earth

EU twin round without earth

EU twin 'flat' blades

EU 3pin round pin (in a line)

US twin blades

UK Round pin

UK 3-pin 'Square'

 

And some others I haven't found a use for.

 

The EU could well do putting their own house in order before telling Multinational companies what they must do.

 

I bought an 'extension lead' with 4 of these universal sockets and put a UK 3-pin plug on the end so can now plug in equipment from anywhere (?)

 

Yes - a worldwide standard would be nice, but using a single universal adapter (no need for a barrow full) is not the end of the world.

 

 

Similarly, Multi-pin plugs are available just select the ones you need for the country you are in.

 

There are far more difficulties in international travel, that getting a plug to fit.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Alan de Enfield