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Mystery engine ID?


Ewan123

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22 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Cant remember what the clock goes up to, its the Beta panel but I am not on the boat

Doesn't matter what it "goes up to" DC, if it's a Beta panel with a digital hour meter it won't display a reading anything like the time the engine keeps running! :rolleyes:

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18 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Jogged my memory -

I bought  a Ford Dexta from our local ag: college (wh were glad to get rid of it 'cos they'd bust the steering box - but didn't tell me...). Worked for me mowing our common and a couple of local bridleways.

It was quite gutless and smoked like ***** if you over loaded it.

Three litres and maximum revs (with lorra black smoke) of 1500 rpm.

As suggested that's probably why Ted Spash  moved to the JD engine (which looked nicer anyway - even though it was more expesnive to buy in.

Ah, happy days when everything was a lot less complicated....

 

 

The Dexta used a Perkins engine. This engine (DB3) was in the Ford 3000 which was launched in 1964 as part of the World Series that replaced the Dexta and the Major, offering a choice of four machines, later augmented by the 7000 with a turbo diesel: the first one to be fitted to a tractor engine. Matched to the correct propellor – and few builders did due to the additional expense – the BD3 is a very meaty engine. My experience of 21 years of ownership in a 60ft tug echoes everything said above and (now with the correct prop thanks to input/supply from Crowthers) goes like sh1t off a shovel in deep water, whilst still ticking over happily in shallow canals.

Edited by Up-Side-Down
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14 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

The Dexta used a Perkins engine. This engine (DB3) was in the Ford 3000 which was launched in 1964 as part of the World Series that replaced the Dexta and the Major, offering a choice of four machines, later augmented by the 7000 with a turbo diesel: the first one to be fitted to a tractor engine. Matched to the correct propellor – and few builders did due to the additional expense – the BD3 is a very meaty engine. My experience of 21 years of ownership in a 60ft tug echoes everything said above and (now with the correct prop thanks to input/supply from Crowthers) goes like shit sh1t off a shovel in deep water, whilst still ticking over happily in shallow canals.

Well that was a surprise to me, I always thought it was the Dexta engine and have told may people that was the case. Sadly Crowthers no longer trade I understand.

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4 hours ago, Up-Side-Down said:

The Dexta used a Perkins engine. This engine (DB3) was in the Ford 3000 which was launched in 1964 as part of the World Series that replaced the Dexta and the Major, offering a choice of four machines, later augmented by the 7000 with a turbo diesel: the first one to be fitted to a tractor engine. Matched to the correct propellor – and few builders did due to the additional expense – the BD3 is a very meaty engine. My experience of 21 years of ownership in a 60ft tug echoes everything said above and (now with the correct prop thanks to input/supply from Crowthers) goes like sh1t off a shovel in deep water, whilst still ticking over happily in shallow canals.

A bigger prop than was usually fitted I presume? I take it the previously mentioned relativey low tickover speed suits the larger prop for passing boats etc.

Edited by Ewan123
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My experience, together with conversation with other boaters with BD3s, was that boatbuilders tried to get away with a 20 x 20 prop when, in reality a 22 x 22 should have been specified (or at the very least 22 x 20).

 

I found that with the original 20 x 20 prop the only time when the engine sounded to be under load was when the washing machine (drawing 2 Kva) was operating whilst we were cruising. Having sat behind the engine in its Ford 3000 tractor guise, for many a happy hours on a Cornish farm, I had a very good idea what it sounded like throughout its entire duty cycle!!

 

In the interests of best performance, taking account of the clearance between propellor tip and Uxter plate (which if I remember correctly needs to be greater than 10% of the prop diameter) Crowthers specified one of their 'High Performance' props but weren't keen to elaborate much further. It of course did the business and, bless 'em, they let quietly me trade in my almost new prop (a detail that I can now share as they have indeed ceased trading). A fantastic company to deal with and I've had cause to use their services since. A sad loss to the waterways in general ........... and BTW I know at least one trawler owner was ranked amongst their customers.

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The whole tractor could have been mounted on the boat. Rear axles poked through the sides, of the hull, wheels replaced with paddle wheels.  A lovely seat to perch on, hooter,  PTO, and a cozy cab, all in one package ready to go.

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4 minutes ago, bizzard said:

The whole tractor could have been mounted on the boat. Rear axles poked through the sides, of the hull, wheels replaced with paddle wheels.  A lovely seat to perch on, hooter,  PTO, and a cozy cab, all in one package ready to go.

Duel drive, paddle wheels and prop on PTO

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9 minutes ago, bizzard said:

The whole tractor could have been mounted on the boat. Rear axles poked through the sides, of the hull, wheels replaced with paddle wheels.  A lovely seat to perch on, hooter,  PTO, and a cozy cab, all in one package ready to go.

The use of 'tracks' would be handy for the shallower parts of the cut.

 

The 'little grey Fergy' (TE20) was winterised with a 'nice cab' and is (apparently) still the only tractor to make it to the South Pole.

 

Arrival at the Pole by tractor | NZHistory, New Zealand history online

 

jan-04-1958-hillary-south-pole.jpg

 

Ferguson tractors

The party completed their journey to the Pole in three converted Ferguson tractors with ‘windshields but no roofs’. Hillary’s official biographer, Alexa Johnston, has likened the journey to driving ‘across Antarctica in convertibles’. Two sledges and a caboose - essentially a caravan on skis - containing bunks, cooking and radio facilities, also survived the journey to the Pole.

 

Sir Edmund Hillary leads New Zealand party to the Pole

 

On 4 January 1958 Sir Edmund Hillary and his New Zealand party reached the South Pole. They were the first to do so overland since Scott in 1912, and the first to reach it in motor vehicles. The party set out for the Pole after laying food and fuel depots for the British crossing party of the Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition (TAE). It was an arduous journey – long hours were spent battling through sastrugi (wind-eroded snow ridges), soft snow and dangerous crevasses. But what is often remembered is Hillary's determination to proceed with the journey without the express permission of the TAE, and against the instructions of the committee coordinating New Zealand's contribution.

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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I rebuilt a Preforce 3000 Ford BD3 engine for a farmer some 8 years ago. The BD3 is a noisy but torquey unit, not too smoky if it is in good order and set up properly.  The farmer has left it in a barn ever since, I moved it last year and it started very easily even though it has not been run-in or indeed run at all for 7 years. Its a heavy lump especially when you have to hang a tractor onto its rear end.

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19 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

My experience, together with conversation with other boaters with BD3s, was that boatbuilders tried to get away with a 20 x 20 prop when, in reality a 22 x 22 should have been specified (or at the very least 22 x 20).

 

I found that with the original 20 x 20 prop the only time when the engine sounded to be under load was when the washing machine (drawing 2 Kva) was operating whilst we were cruising. Having sat behind the engine in its Ford 3000 tractor guise, for many a happy hours on a Cornish farm, I had a very good idea what it sounded like throughout its entire duty cycle!!

 

In the interests of best performance, taking account of the clearance between propellor tip and Uxter plate (which if I remember correctly needs to be greater than 10% of the prop diameter) Crowthers specified one of their 'High Performance' props but weren't keen to elaborate much further. It of course did the business and, bless 'em, they let quietly me trade in my almost new prop (a detail that I can now share as they have indeed ceased trading). A fantastic company to deal with and I've had cause to use their services since. A sad loss to the waterways in general ........... and BTW I know at least one trawler owner was ranked amongst their customers.

What is the maximum speed of the BD3 in a boat?  I read somewhere that it had issues at higher speeds (surprising?) so maybe Beta keep the maximum speed low.

Our JD3 has a 21x20 prop and thats just about right, its just starting to get into the black smoke region at about 1300rpm. I suspect the BD3 had a similar torque curve (a few more CC's but an older design?) so 22x22 is a little big unless the max revs is a little lower. The slower tickover would also match the bigger prop a bit better.

 

................Dave

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15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The use of 'tracks' would be handy for the shallower parts of the cut.

 

The 'little grey Fergy' (TE20) was winterised with a 'nice cab' and is (apparently) still the only tractor to make it to the South Pole.

 

Arrival at the Pole by tractor | NZHistory, New Zealand history online

 

jan-04-1958-hillary-south-pole.jpg

 

Ferguson tractors

The party completed their journey to the Pole in three converted Ferguson tractors with ‘windshields but no roofs’. Hillary’s official biographer, Alexa Johnston, has likened the journey to driving ‘across Antarctica in convertibles’. Two sledges and a caboose - essentially a caravan on skis - containing bunks, cooking and radio facilities, also survived the journey to the Pole.

 

Sir Edmund Hillary leads New Zealand party to the Pole

 

On 4 January 1958 Sir Edmund Hillary and his New Zealand party reached the South Pole. They were the first to do so overland since Scott in 1912, and the first to reach it in motor vehicles. The party set out for the Pole after laying food and fuel depots for the British crossing party of the Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition (TAE). It was an arduous journey – long hours were spent battling through sastrugi (wind-eroded snow ridges), soft snow and dangerous crevasses. But what is often remembered is Hillary's determination to proceed with the journey without the express permission of the TAE, and against the instructions of the committee coordinating New Zealand's contribution.

 

An optional extra for Land Rovers was four bogie track units fitted to where each wheel goes, fully flexible.

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20 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I rebuilt a Preforce 3000 Ford BD3 engine for a farmer some 8 years ago. The BD3 is a noisy but torquey unit, not too smoky if it is in good order and set up properly.  The farmer has left it in a barn ever since, I moved it last year and it started very easily even though it has not been run-in or indeed run at all for 7 years. Its a heavy lump especially when you have to hang a tractor onto its rear end.

That sounds like a fascinating exercise. That engine certainly isn't short of torque so the current prop is a happy match and spot on I reckon using the British Standard Ear which I have developed with classic tractors over the past 50 years!

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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I rebuilt a Preforce 3000 Ford BD3 engine for a farmer some 8 years ago. The BD3 is a noisy but torquey unit, not too smoky if it is in good order and set up properly.  The farmer has left it in a barn ever since, I moved it last year and it started very easily even though it has not been run-in or indeed run at all for 7 years. Its a heavy lump especially when you have to hang a tractor onto its rear end.

I have a feeling it come in at about half a ton but it was a long time ago when I had to lift it

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17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have a feeling it come in at about half a ton but it was a long time ago when I had to lift it

One and a half hernias then!  Fortunately we have plenty of fore-end loaders.

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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On 13/11/2020 at 01:53, Tonka said:

If you buy it you cam PM me and i have quite a few manuals for the Beta BD3 Tug Engine. It is a basically a Ford 3 cylinder tractor engine. Lister also marinised the same engine and was the Lister CRK3 although theirs was never as good as the Beta's apparently. The BD3 was superseded by the JD3 because the BD3 didn't meet the eu requirements. I have owned mine for 21 years and has never not started or misses a beat. I have often been asked if it is a Gardner.

Which sounds odd as Beta bought this engine from Listers and then did there own thing with it.

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10 minutes ago, Steve56 said:

Which sounds odd as Beta bought this engine from Listers and then did there own thing with it.

Maybe not, I think Beta are ex Lister people so likely still have Lister links, A big company like Ford might not want to deal directly with a little company like Beta,

Beta get their JD3 engine from Barrus.

 

................Dave

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2 minutes ago, dmr said:

Maybe not, I think Beta are ex Lister people so likely still have Lister links, A big company like Ford might not want to deal directly with a little company like Beta,

Beta get their JD3 engine from Barrus.

 

................Dave

The 4 guys who originally started Beta Marine were ex Listers. There were no links at all. Beta would buy this engine from Lister as would any other customer.

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