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Mike Adams

Can I visit my boat to winterise it?

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According to the Basingstoke Canal Authority it is not possible to visit a powered boat to winterise it! This is DEFRA advice but I can pay someone to do it because that would be going to work which is essential travel.

 

 Powered boats

Privately owned boatsYou should not be using the water with a powered boat at this timeas in the previous lockdown powered boating is not considered a permitted recreational activity. You must not stay on your boat overnight,unless it is your primary residence. We have sought guidance from DEFRA on whether you can travel to winterize or maintain a privately owned boat and have been informed this is not permitted, as it is considered non-essential travel.

The small number of live-aboard boaters visiting the waterway during lockdown may move from a mooring agreed with the BCA to access boater’s welfare, grocery shops or boatyard facilities and return, but they should not cruise the waterway for other purposes.

Commercial powered boats

Owners of commercial (self-drive hire /passenger boats) may move their boats for work purposes (e.g.; to carryout maintenance).No passenger trips or self-drive hires are permitted

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Simples you are now a professional boat repairer going to winterise a boat. Obviously you don't charge yourself but it's still your job. 

Edited by mrsmelly

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I see quite a few boaters doing things today, and cars on the road, and now fireworks.

If you want to winterise yor boat, make it an essential journey.

Edited by LadyG

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Most of these things involve an element of discretion - "is it permitted..."? The answer is usually "it depends..."

 

Case 1 - You have a call that you boat is listing and taking on water - the consequences (and not just to you) of it sinking make a visit essential

 

Case 2- The bathroom could do with a lick of paint - the consequences of this not being done are trivial - suck it up and wait till it's over

 

Somewhere between these lines is the boundary between essential and non-essential. 

 

Ireland haven't allowed such discretion, which has resulted in boats sinking and one report (on facebook) of the Lough Derg life boat stopping a moored boat sinking.   

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In 2010, the ice and frost set in on 25th November onwards, people had boats a long way from where they should have been and were unable to move them for months. A lot of damage was done as severe cold that early is very unexpected.

If your insurance company would expect you to winterise your boat to avoid claims, then you should do it as essential maintenance regardless of what DEFRA say, they probably dont know what it is, or appreciate the importance.

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It seems it is a travel thing so I assume if I cycle that is exercise and a drain down is essential.

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42 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

This is DEFRA advice

What counts is the legislation, the law, says, not what someone from the Basingstoke Canal Authority says that DEFRA advise. As @matty40s suggests above, why would they know about winterising boats?  The legislation is available on the gov.uk web pages.

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50 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

What counts is the legislation, the law, says, not what someone from the Basingstoke Canal Authority says that DEFRA advise. As @matty40s suggests above, why would they know about winterising boats?  The legislation is available on the gov.uk web pages.

That is true, forget all the interpretation is just look at the statutory instrument.  However  I could not see how I could justify visiting the boat if the weather turned bad. If anyone has a thought on what section of the legislation you could use to justify that as essential travel then please post it, as I am sure many would be interested.

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EA say this in their letter to boaters:

 

From Thursday 5 November Government therefore advises our boating customers to avoid non-essential travel on the waterways and not stay overnight aboard your boat unless it is your primary residence.

 

Note the word advises means its non mandatory.

However the actual law may say different .

Edited by Loddon

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The regulations are not entirely logical but I think having to travel to visit the boat isn’t within them, even though there are other activities of arguably greater risk that are.

 

I shall take advantage of the fact that my boat is moored in a park near my home through which I routinely walk the dog and during which I often call in to the boat anyway.

 

JP

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The marina I use is closed for leisure use, but boaters are 'allowed' to visit for "essential winterisation maintenance". 

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1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

The regulations are not entirely logical but I think having to travel to visit the boat isn’t within them, even though there are other activities of arguably greater risk that are.

 

I shall take advantage of the fact that my boat is moored in a park near my home through which I routinely walk the dog and during which I often call in to the boat anyway.

 

JP

I just looked at the SI and I have to agree, there doesn’t seem to be any viable exception for essential maintenance. Which is odd, because in aviation world, DfT (dept for transport) have just issued guidance which DOES allow pilot owners to operate their leisure light aircraft for the purposes of essential maintenance - some makes of engine require a run or flight every so often to prevent engine corrosion. The DfT guidance seems totally at odds with the SI - but since they both represent the government you’d think they would agree! DfT guidance here if you are interested, para 6:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-general-aviation/coronavirus-covid-19-general-aviation

 

 

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As per the topic title, I’d say Yes - anyway, it’s better to seek forgiveness than ask permission- common sense and care is what needs to be applied 

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It will depend also where it is moored and what the marina/land owner etc has put in place, however, I suspect if you don't winterise, your insurance would have a happy smiley day if you needed to claim, while you would not. I would personally view it as an essential task, but perhaps ring the boatyard (or whatever)and ask their policy . If they say no, ask if they will stand by that responsibility in the event of a claim.

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Surly this all depends on where you put your boat on the ladder of essential. If you wife was dying would you go to the boat and winterise it? If your mother in Law was coming to stay would you go and winterize it? If you could spread the virus and some could die would you go and winterize it.?

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33 minutes ago, Col_T said:

The marina I use is closed for leisure use, but boaters are 'allowed' to visit for "essential winterisation maintenance". 

That is fine for the marina to say that, but in that case what is your reasonable excuse for leaving the place where you live.  I can’t creativity come up with something that would work for the purpose of checking the boat.

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Surly this all depends on where you put your boat on the ladder of essential. If you wife was dying would you go to the boat and winterise it? If your mother in Law was coming to stay would you go and winterize it? If you could spread the virus and some could die would you go and winterize it.?

But the legislation in not that logical.  As far as I can see it can phone a company at the other end of the country and buy any random product, and then drive to pick it up as long as I don’t go inside their premises.  None of that is essential but this time round it is allowed.  That random place could of course be the marina, but it still does not allow me to check the boat while I am there, or somehow does it?

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It very much depends on marina if you're in one. Yelvertoft would probably pick you up from the searchlights and set the dogs on you but others might be a bit more open minded..  actually to be fair Yelvertoft are allowing trips to winterise...

Edited by robtheplod

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Frankly, I'd just do it but be careful not to interact with anybody. When we visited our marina to winterise the boat last weekend, I don't think we came within 50 metres of anybody else and touched nothing that others are likely to touch. 

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Little evidence of lockdown where we are. A45 like a motorway in weedon at 1430 yesterday.

say you are picking up essential supplies.

This morning tiny road through our village is like a racetrack.

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30 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Little evidence of lockdown where we are. A45 like a motorway in weedon at 1430 yesterday.

say you are picking up essential supplies.

This morning tiny road through our village is like a racetrack.

The A5 was sounding very normal yesterday, lots of small planes overhead testing engines, and the canal ended fairly normal (although busy for November).

On the other hand, Loughborough was reported as being very quiet.

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1 hour ago, Proper Charlie said:

Frankly, I'd just do it but be careful not to interact with anybody. When we visited our marina to winterise the boat last weekend, I don't think we came within 50 metres of anybody else and touched nothing that others are likely to touch. 

No, my name is Frank not Frankly. 😀

I too visited my marina just before lockdown. Drove into the marina, parked up, boarded and finished winterising , got back into the car and drove home. I saw 2 or 3 people in the distance (a good 50 metres) , spoke to no one and touched nothing. 

To clarify, it was on Monday 

Edited by Slim

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Apparently it's OK if you've got a boat with a sail on it to drive to it and go sailing, as it's exercise. Wrestling with covers on my boat is also exercising, the guy who owns the land where it's moored wants me to keep checking on it, so I reckon that's permissable. There's no one close to infect or to infect me.

Rules or laws imposed have to cover general areas, they can't be tailored to every tiny eventuality, so it comes down to common sense in the end on everyone's part - ours, and those enforcing them. Mostly, it works OK, and it's only a month (for now).

  • Greenie 1

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14 hours ago, Loddon said:

EA say this in their letter to boaters:

 

From Thursday 5 November Government therefore advises our boating customers to avoid non-essential travel on the waterways and not stay overnight aboard your boat unless it is your primary residence.

 

Note the word advises means its non mandatory.

However the actual law may say different .

 

CRT says pretty much the same thing. 

 

My boat is moored about 45 minutes away from home, but if I were to visit it I need not come into contact with anyone at all.

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Maybe this will help focus the mind :

 

 

People in England now face £200 on-the-spot fines for leaving their house without a ‘reasonable excuse’.

New laws to enforce the month-long lockdown include the power for police to impose the penalties across the land.

Under the law, in force until December 2, no person may “leave or be outside” the place they are living without an excuse set out in law.

The place where you are living includes your home, garden, passages, stairways, garages and outhouses.

But it doesn’t include second homes or holiday homes, and the law has an exemption for people who are homeless. Protests are also not allowed.

 

If the fine is paid within 14 days, it halves to £100. For repeat offenders it doubles each time, up to £6,400.

Police don’t need to prove you broke the law to give you a fine - only to suspect you did so. That means you could find yourself fighting a fine in court.

 

If you do go down this route, you’d have to prove you had one of the following reasonable excuses.

And if you lose a fight in court, you’d get not just a higher fine, but also a criminal record.

So it’s important you know the law. Here’s the list of reasonable excuses in full:

  • If it is ‘reasonable necessary’ to “buy goods or obtain services from” businesses that remain open - either for yourself, household members, or a “vulnerable person” or their household member.
  • To withdraw or deposit money in a bank or building society or similar business.
  • To “take exercise outside”, either alone, with members of your household or support/childcare bubble, or with one person from another household. Under this exemption, there must just be two of you in total - though kids under 5 don’t count towards the limit.
  • To attend a place of worship (though they’re only staying open for private prayer).
  • To attend a Remembrance Sunday event.
  • To visit estate or letting agents or show homes; view properties to buy or rent; prepare a property to move, buy, rent or sell; or move house.
  • To visit someone in your support bubble or childcare bubble. A childcare bubble is when two households join together for informal childcare for a child under 13.
  • To pick up takeaway food or drink.
  • To visit a waste disposal or recycling centre.
  • To attend work, education or training, or provide voluntary or charitable series, if it’s not reasonable to do so from home.
  • To provide care or assistance to a vulnerable person.
  • To provide emergency assistance to any person.
  • To fulfil a legal obligation, including attending court or satisfying bail conditions.
  • To access social services, DWP services, victim of crime services, and asylum and immigration services and interviews.
  • If you’re an elite athlete, to continue training or competition.
  • To seek medical assistance, including to donate blood, attend medical trials or take Covid tests or a vaccine.
  • To avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm.
  • To be with a mother giving birth, at her request.
  • To visit a household, close family member or friend who is being treated in hospital, a hospice or care home (local rules on visits permitting).
  • To attend a support group, including for domestic abuse victims, addicts and LGBT people, or provide or receive respite care.
  • To visit a household, close family member or friend you reasonably believe is dying.
  • To attend a funeral or wake, or burial ground or garden of remembrance, though there are limits on the numbers who can attend.
  • To attend a marriage or civil partnership, but again there are strict limits on numbers.
  • To allow children with separated parents to move between those two parents’ homes.
  • There are also certain exemptions for children in care and those preparing to be adopted.
  • To visit a vet.
  • To walk or otherwise exercise your pet.
  • To return home if you were on holiday before the lockdown came into force.
  • To visit a close family or friend in prison.

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12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe this will help focus the mind :

 

 

People in England now face £200 on-the-spot fines for leaving their house without a ‘reasonable excuse’.

New laws to enforce the month-long lockdown include the power for police to impose the penalties across the land.

Under the law, in force until December 2, no person may “leave or be outside” the place they are living without an excuse set out in law.

The place where you are living includes your home, garden, passages, stairways, garages and outhouses.

But it doesn’t include second homes or holiday homes, and the law has an exemption for people who are homeless. Protests are also not allowed.

 

If the fine is paid within 14 days, it halves to £100. For repeat offenders it doubles each time, up to £6,400.

Police don’t need to prove you broke the law to give you a fine - only to suspect you did so. That means you could find yourself fighting a fine in court.

 

If you do go down this route, you’d have to prove you had one of the following reasonable excuses.

And if you lose a fight in court, you’d get not just a higher fine, but also a criminal record.

So it’s important you know the law. Here’s the list of reasonable excuses in full:

  • If it is ‘reasonable necessary’ to “buy goods or obtain services from” businesses that remain open - either for yourself, household members, or a “vulnerable person” or their household member.
  • To withdraw or deposit money in a bank or building society or similar business.
  • To “take exercise outside”, either alone, with members of your household or support/childcare bubble, or with one person from another household. Under this exemption, there must just be two of you in total - though kids under 5 don’t count towards the limit.
  • To attend a place of worship (though they’re only staying open for private prayer).
  • To attend a Remembrance Sunday event.
  • To visit estate or letting agents or show homes; view properties to buy or rent; prepare a property to move, buy, rent or sell; or move house.
  • To visit someone in your support bubble or childcare bubble. A childcare bubble is when two households join together for informal childcare for a child under 13.
  • To pick up takeaway food or drink.
  • To visit a waste disposal or recycling centre.
  • To attend work, education or training, or provide voluntary or charitable series, if it’s not reasonable to do so from home.
  • To provide care or assistance to a vulnerable person.
  • To provide emergency assistance to any person.
  • To fulfil a legal obligation, including attending court or satisfying bail conditions.
  • To access social services, DWP services, victim of crime services, and asylum and immigration services and interviews.
  • If you’re an elite athlete, to continue training or competition.
  • To seek medical assistance, including to donate blood, attend medical trials or take Covid tests or a vaccine.
  • To avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm.
  • To be with a mother giving birth, at her request.
  • To visit a household, close family member or friend who is being treated in hospital, a hospice or care home (local rules on visits permitting).
  • To attend a support group, including for domestic abuse victims, addicts and LGBT people, or provide or receive respite care.
  • To visit a household, close family member or friend you reasonably believe is dying.
  • To attend a funeral or wake, or burial ground or garden of remembrance, though there are limits on the numbers who can attend.
  • To attend a marriage or civil partnership, but again there are strict limits on numbers.
  • To allow children with separated parents to move between those two parents’ homes.
  • There are also certain exemptions for children in care and those preparing to be adopted.
  • To visit a vet.
  • To walk or otherwise exercise your pet.
  • To return home if you were on holiday before the lockdown came into force.
  • To visit a close family or friend in prison.

Thanks for that, where did you find it as I would like to pass it on

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