Thinking about first NB. any thoughts on this ?

[cuthound]

5 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Rockwool is preferred for the reason you gave, but it's harder to install than sprayfoam, so there's more chance it won't have been done well.  Welding on the hull risks melting sprayfoam or polystyrene underneath and causing condensation spots.

 

The Thinsulate insulation on my boat was erroneously described as Rockwool  by the seller.

 

Being unfamiliar with it, I asked my preferred surveyor in advance of making an offer.

 

He said that if Rockwool is installed correctly it is OK, but it should end a few inches above the base plate so that a wet bilge doesn't wick upwards and damage the wooden labelling.

 

It was when he removed the skirting to check this that he found my insulation is 3M Thinsulate which doesn't wick moisture.

[LadyG]

I have Thetford Excellence, free standing but it's more of a porta porti than the C series which one can leave on the roof!!!!! 

[Norm55]

Info overload here but keep it coming, am learning by the minute!

 

Would a surveyor remove skirting board as part of survey or are there different levels of survey as in house purchase, i.e. structural survey and valuation type.

 

As regards a certain function, and its options we have not yet discussed the merits of a pump out system..  I understand the holding tank is under the bed, the thought of that could kill the moment.  ??

 

Am stuck in lockdown so unable to get out and view anymore boats, so could be a long search,   

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

Would a surveyor remove skirting board as part of survey

In the small print of the survey will be something similar to :

 

The survey is based on things that can be seen, I have not lifted carpets, opened cupboard doors or accessed anything that need tools to operate. The survey is valid for 5 minutes after completion and am not responsible for missing anything.

 

Some years ago I tried to take a surveyor to court, for missing some very obvious failures, I not only had a 'FULL' survey but also included 'machinery' (engine and gear box). The survey cost in excess of £1000.

My solicitor said I had absolutely no hope of winning in court as the 'small print' excluded everything and basically it was all down to the surveyors 'opinion' of the boat. And you cannot take someone to court for having an opinion.

It cost me over £20,000 to correct the problems.

 

I have subsequently bought 17 boats and never had another survey.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

Info overload here but keep it coming, am learning by the minute!

 

Would a surveyor remove skirting board as part of survey or are there different levels of survey as in house purchase, i.e. structural survey and valuation type.

 

As regards a certain function, and its options we have not yet discussed the merits of a pump out system..  I understand the holding tank is under the bed, the thought of that could kill the moment.  ??

 

Am stuck in lockdown so unable to get out and view anymore boats, so could be a long search,   

 

 

If the surveyor who surveyed our boat had done the simplest amount of dismantling ie lift the bed matress he would possibly have spotted the fact the pipe to the under bed plastic poo tank was flexing and leaking when the macerator pump was operated.

 

He is a well known surveyor often recommended on here, but I wont name them as they all pretty much operate to the same modus operandi.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Norm55 said:

Info overload here but keep it coming, am learning by the minute!

 

Would a surveyor remove skirting board as part of survey or are there different levels of survey as in house purchase, i.e. structural survey and valuation type.

 

As regards a certain function, and its options we have not yet discussed the merits of a pump out system..  I understand the holding tank is under the bed, the thought of that could kill the moment.  ??

 

Am stuck in lockdown so unable to get out and view anymore boats, so could be a long search,   

 

 

Mine isn't under the bed

 

[peterboat]

My preference is for sprayfoam insulation over Rockwell, my present boat has both sprayfoam and thinsulite I think that the sprayfoam is marginally better, where it really wins is with condensation which is where Rockwool really falls down as it doesn't stop it at all

[system 4-50]

2 hours ago, Norm55 said:

As regards a certain function, and its options we have not yet discussed the merits of a pump out system..  I understand the holding tank is under the bed, the thought of that could kill the moment.  ??

Remember, at the critical moment, that each of us is a small pump-out system, with a small holding tank...

[booke23]

2 hours ago, Norm55 said:

As regards a certain function, and its options we have not yet discussed the merits of a pump out system..  I understand the holding tank is under the bed, the thought of that could kill the moment.  ?

 

I think a pump out system has merit, especially as you will be using the boat for leisure. You don't have to lug a container of poo and wee to the (sometimes disgusting) elsan point and potentially splash yourself with its contents as you pour it away. It costs £15-£20 to pump out, but you might go many weeks between pump outs if you are only using the boat at weekends. 

 

I would expect a 1993 boat to have a dump through toilet with an integral tank, so you might not be sleeping on the tank. However I see in the description it has had a new toilet fitted at some point,  so it could be a more modern macerator toilet with under bed tank. If it really bothers you, it could be replaced with a cassette toilet.

[doratheexplorer]

14 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

The Thinsulate insulation on my boat was erroneously described as Rockwool  by the seller.

 

Being unfamiliar with it, I asked my preferred surveyor in advance of making an offer.

 

He said that if Rockwool is installed correctly it is OK, but it should end a few inches above the base plate so that a wet bilge doesn't wick upwards and damage the wooden labelling.

 

It was when he removed the skirting to check this that he found my insulation is 3M Thinsulate which doesn't wick moisture.

I bet insulation is misdescribed by sellers all the time.  Also, the thickness and care taken in installing is more important than the material used.  On most boats, thats gonna be hard to check directly.  Better to look for evidence of excessive condensation and persistant damp in the cabin.

11 hours ago, peterboat said:

My preference is for sprayfoam insulation over Rockwell, my present boat has both sprayfoam and thinsulite I think that the sprayfoam is marginally better, where it really wins is with condensation which is where Rockwool really falls down as it doesn't stop it at all

The whole point of insulation is to stop condensation.  Rockwool does this just as well as sprayfoam, when installed properly.

[cuthound]

14 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

The Thinsulate insulation on my boat was erroneously described as Rockwool  by the seller.

 

Being unfamiliar with it, I asked my preferred surveyor in advance of making an offer.

 

He said that if Rockwool is installed correctly it is OK, but it should end a few inches above the base plate so that a wet bilge doesn't wick upwards and damage the wooden labelling.

 

It was when he removed the skirting to check this that he found my insulation is 3M Thinsulate which doesn't wick moisture.

 

Labelling, not labelling. Bloody autowrong.

 

Too late to edit now, hence this post.

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

The whole point of insulation is to stop condensation.  Rockwool does this just as well as sprayfoam, when installed properly.

But rockwool is vapour permeable, meaning that water vapour from inside the boat can permeate through to the inside face of the shell, where it will condense, regardless of how much insulation you have. To stop that you need either an impermeable vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation, or to use impermeable insulation e.g. sprayfoam.

[cuthound]

13 hours ago, Norm55 said:

Info overload here but keep it coming, am learning by the minute!

 

Would a surveyor remove skirting board as part of survey or are there different levels of survey as in house purchase, i.e. structural survey and valuation type.

 

As regards a certain function, and its options we have not yet discussed the merits of a pump out system..  I understand the holding tank is under the bed, the thought of that could kill the moment.  ??

 

Am stuck in lockdown so unable to get out and view anymore boats, so could be a long search,   

 

 

 

Depends on whether you ask him to look at something specifically, as I did because I had no experience of Rockwool insulation.

 

Normally not.

 

Best to tell your chosen surveyor that you are a newbie and how you intend to use your boat(leisure or liveabord). He will then provide guidance.

 

Also ask if you can be present during the survey. If he agrees you will learn a lot and he will tell you about things that wouldn't necessarily go into the survey.

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

But rockwool is vapour permeable, meaning that water vapour from inside the boat can permeate through to the inside face of the shell, where it will condense, regardless of how much insulation you have. To stop that you need either an impermeable vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation, or to use impermeable insulation e.g. sprayfoam.

Hence my use of the word properly.  Installed correctly, it's probably the best choice for insulating a boat.  I wish my boat had it.

Edited October 27, 2020 by doratheexplorer

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I bet insulation is misdescribed by sellers all the time.  Also, the thickness and care taken in installing is more important than the material used.  On most boats, thats gonna be hard to check directly.  Better to look for evidence of excessive condensation and persistant damp in the cabin.

The whole point of insulation is to stop condensation.  Rockwool does this just as well as sprayfoam, when installed properly.

I have seen soggy mess rockwool to many times in the yard on profits, you are right its the installation that causes it, but because people think you just bung it in that the issue happens.  Sprayfoam is normally done in our area by Webster's and have been doing it for years on boats, so generally its done to a high standard with no damp or corrosion issues.  My thinsulite is on the hull and the boards making up the ceiling and sides with an air gap between and is well glued into place, I also have it on the boards where the sprayfoam is on the hull, it seemed a shame to waste it when the boat was stretched 

[Athy]

44 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Labelling, not labelling. Bloody autowrong.

 

.

Perhaps still not quite what you meant to write?

[cuthound]

36 minutes ago, Athy said:

Perhaps still not quite what you meant to write?

 

It's done it again. ?

 

I wonder why it automatically changes panelling to labelling? (And yes, I had to manually change it back in this sentance).

[LadyG]

On 26/10/2020 at 19:35, Norm55 said:

Info overload here but keep it coming, am learning by the minute!

 

Would a surveyor remove skirting board as part of survey or are there different levels of survey as in house purchase, i.e. structural survey and valuation type.

 

As regards a certain function, and its options we have not yet discussed the merits of a pump out system..  I understand the holding tank is under the bed, the thought of that could kill the moment.  ??

 

Am stuck in lockdown so unable to get out and view anymore boats, so could be a long search,   

 

 

I have a cassette, simples.

The boat has a tank but it does not work, no throne, I believe a vacuum type will break sooner than a mechanical thingy, I threw out the owner's cassette, plus the previous owners mattress, but I have done nothing with the tank except adding a pint of water plus blue Thetford. I smell nothing, and I have a sensitive nose!

My tanks are s/steel, I would not have mild steel or plastic, one rots, one stinks.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by LadyG

[Norm55]

Thanks again for all advice given.    Under lockdown so no chance to get out and look at any, but have drawn up short list and rung around. A few things have come to mind.

If you are selling something, then why not clean it up for pictures, in particular make the bed before you photograph the room.

When ringing vendor and asking questions , most kindly suggested by you folks i am met with " don't know,...... think it is...why dont you just come down and have a look " 

If I am selling something I have all info to hand

And then when questioned about my intended method of purchase - deposit then balance pending survey  " nah, she doesn't need a survey save your money " 

 

Is it just me?

[LadyG]

14 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

Thanks again for all advice given.    Under lockdown so no chance to get out and look at any, but have drawn up short list and rung around. A few things have come to mind.

If you are selling something, then why not clean it up for pictures, in particular make the bed before you photograph the room.

When ringing vendor and asking questions , most kindly suggested by you folks i am met with " don't know,...... think it is...why dont you just come down and have a look " 

If I am selling something I have all info to hand

And then when questioned about my intended method of purchase - deposit then balance pending survey  " nah, she doesn't need a survey save your money " 

 

Is it just me?

I would think from those responses that you are looking at the wrong boats, ie people who thought a boat would provide a roof over their head, that's not the kind of boat you want to buy.

[booke23]

11 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

And then when questioned about my intended method of purchase - deposit then balance pending survey  " nah, she doesn't need a survey save your money " 

Is this a private owner or broker telling you that? 

 

A boat owner has nothing to fear from a survey if the boat is in reasonable condition. If they are trying to dissuade you from having a survey, I’d be suspicious. Personally, I’d never buy a boat without some kind of input from someone very knowledgeable.....if not a survey then at least taking someone along who has a lot of technical experience with narrowboats. 

[Athy]

24 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

 

If you are selling something, then why not clean it up for pictures, in particular make the bed before you photograph the room?

 

 

 

Abso-blooming-lutely.....and throw away that half-eaten sandwich, do the washing-up, put discarded dirty clothes in the linen basket (or equivalent) etc. etc. I even saw one (unoccupied) boat for sale whose porta-potti was almost brim-full. Who would wish to buy a boat from such porcines?

Edited October 29, 2020 by Athy

[Norm55]

Not a broker, no its when i ring a private seller.  Am thinking this is worth a look

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-semi-traditional/646876

 

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Norm55 said:

Not a broker, no its when i ring a private seller.  Am thinking this is worth a look

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-semi-traditional/646876

 

Its sold mate according to my screen 

[Norm55]

Doh!!!  I meant this one 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-semi-traditional/646561