Thinking about first NB. any thoughts on this ?

[Athy]

18 minutes ago, Ally said:

I certainly have!  I have also recently become the unexpected owner of a tiny boat, just 20ft, that I am currently fitting out as a studio/weekender boat. I've had 4 years + basically away from the water,  whilst caring for my mum, but back now, and, well, I didn't want to get bored!

20 footer? Is it a Springer Water Bug?

Marion (Mrs. Athy) and I recently realised that 'Trojan', which we still think of as "our new boat", was launched 14 years ago. Last I heard, Mel Davis was still creating fine boats in that old stone barn.

[booke23]

12 hours ago, Norm55 said:

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/bluewater-boats-40-semi-trad/650185

 

Thanks for all replies, just found this one too   Similar boat spec but a lot newer. For around same price.

Am confused ?

Newer hull and modern engine. It's 5ft shorter and looks to have no fixed bed. I agree with previous comments......looks like a self fitout, and not a brilliant one in terms of design. Quite a bit of wasted space by the look of it, but you'd have to view it to be sure. Should be easy to replace the porta pottie with a Thetford cassette but will cost you a few quid. 

[Athy]

8 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 Should be easy to replace the porta pottie with a Thetford cassette.

Extremely, as they are the same thing.

[booke23]

11 minutes ago, Athy said:

Extremely, as they are the same thing.

Yes, assuming the bathroom design allows for a hole to be cut for access to the cassette. It's not clear in the photos if this is the case. 

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, Athy said:

Extremely, as they are the same thing.

A porta-Potti is a free standing plastic container with a seat on it, whilst a cassette toilet is an 'installed' toilet system, connected to the water supply (and often the electricity). The toilet and casing are fixed, & there is a 'flap' / door which is opened to remove the cassette.

 

A cassette toilet takes up much more space than a porta-pottina and requires to be mounted against a wall (which has access from the rear to remove the cassette)

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

The differences between the 2:

 

First is longer and has a much better quality professional fit-out, with more spec.  The value is that it's quite a sweet looking, cosy boat.

 

The second is a lot newer, but with a pretty basic home fit-out.  So the value is mostly in the hull condition.

 

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

 

 

[Athy]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A porta-Potti is a free standing plastic container with a seat on it, whilst a cassette toilet is an 'installed' toilet system, connected to the water supply (and often the electricity). The toilet and casing are fixed, & there is a 'flap' / door which is opened to remove the cassette.

 

A cassette toilet takes up much more space than a porta-pottina and requires to be mounted against a wall (which has access from the rear to remove the cassette)

 

 

Not really. They're two types of cassette toilet made by Thetford. Our boat has both! (One, I hasten to add, dismantled and in reserve in case we're unable to use the plumbed-in one for any reason).

[doratheexplorer]

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

Not really. They're two types of cassette toilet made by Thetford. Our boat has both! (One, I hasten to add, dismantled and in reserve in case we're unable to use the plumbed-in one for any reason).

The clue is in the name.  The porta-potti is portable, the cassette toilet isn't.  It's a permanently installed toilet.  Try using a cassette toilet in a tent, you'll see the difference.

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

The clue is in the name.  The porta-potti is portable, the cassette toilet isn't.  It's a permanently installed toilet.  Try using a cassette toilet in a tent, you'll see the difference.

Follicular bisection.

[Mad Harold]

31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A porta-Potti is a free standing plastic container with a seat on it, whilst a cassette toilet is an 'installed' toilet system, connected to the water supply (and often the electricity). The toilet and casing are fixed, & there is a 'flap' / door which is opened to remove the cassette.

 

A cassette toilet takes up much more space than a porta-pottina and requires to be mounted against a wall (which has access from the rear to remove the cassette)

 

 

Very enlightening Alan.

Been boating now for five years and I thought a Porta Potty and a cassette toilet were one and the same thing.

[Athy]

Just now, Mad Harold said:

 

Been boating now for five years and I thought a Porta Potty and a cassette toilet were one and the same thing.

Correctly. Both are cassette toilets.

"Porta Potti" tends to be used as a generic term, like "Hoover".

[doratheexplorer]

6 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Very enlightening Alan.

Been boating now for five years and I thought a Porta Potty and a cassette toilet were one and the same thing.

It was.  Alan helpfully showed how they're fundamentally different.  A porta-potti is basically a glorified bucket.  In fact some of the cheaper generic versions sold for campers really are a bucket with a toilet seat.  In any case, I wouldn't consider living on a boat with only a porta-potti to use.  A cassette toilet is much more like a normal toilet to use, it's actually plumbed in, so you can flush it in a similar way to a normal toilet too.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Athy said:

Correctly. Both are cassette toilets.

"Porta Potti" tends to be used as a generic term, like "Hoover".

 

 

I disagree, put Porta Potty into google and I bet it doesn't bring up any cassette toilets.

 

Maybe on your boat it is incorrectly used as a generic term for all toilets, but in reality it is not.

[Norm55]

Just another thank you to all who have chipped in.  

Insulation was raised by one poster,  on Gemini  it is Rockwool which I believe is preferable as not a fire hazard with electric cables buried within.  Battery count, i think is 3 leisure ones  

Yes 2nd boat does look like poor use of space and good point about RCD which I would not have thought about, thank you garibaldi.  

Gemini has pump out loo which I prefer, but I know this is contentious point too, ( feel free to discuss ) I would not consider basic Porta-potti 

Overall am leaning towards first boat, Gemini, thanks to all above posters, I can now see the difference .   However the engine is older, ( Perkins Perama) should I be worried about that? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Athy]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 put Porta Potty into google and I bet it doesn't bring up any cassette toilets.

 

 

You'll lose. All porta-potties have a cassette, that's the part which holds the "product".

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

 

Maybe on your boat it is incorrectly used as a generic term for all toilets, but in reality it is not.

Correctly used, and Trojan is a real boat. You mean that you don't use the term, that's fair enough. Not everyone calls vacuum cleaners "hoovers" either.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Athy

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

I would not consider basic Porta-potti 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why not? They are perfectly (if you'll pardon the expression) functional. If you find a good boat which has one, don't let it be a deal-breaker.

[noone]

9 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

Just another thank you to all who have chipped in.  

Insulation was raised by one poster,  on Gemini  it is Rockwool which I believe is preferable as not a fire hazard with electric cables buried within.  Battery count, i think is 3 leisure ones  

Yes 2nd boat does look like poor use of space and good point about RCD which I would not have thought about, thank you garibaldi.  

Gemini has pump out loo which I prefer, but I know this is contentious point too, ( feel free to discuss ) I would not consider basic Porta-potti 

Overall am leaning towards first boat, Gemini, thanks to all above posters, I can now see the difference .   However the engine is older, ( Perkins Perama) should I be worried about that? 

 

 

 

 

 

Perkins are quite a good engine,there are lots of boats with them fitted.Spares are easily come by and second hand units are around 2-3k.

Take a look at the bolt heads around the engine,if they are chewed up,it doesn't bode well.Run it til its up to temp and check for leaks.Any paperwork for it?,services etc.

8 minutes ago, Athy said:

Why not? They are perfectly (if you'll pardon the expression) functional. If you find a good boat which has one, don't let it be a deal-breaker.

Should it be number 1 on the deal breaker list...or number 2!?..?

[Athy]

4 minutes ago, Leggers do it lying down said:

 

Should it be number 1 on the deal breaker list...or number 2!?..?

Now you're just taking the.....er.....rise.

[doratheexplorer]

20 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

Just another thank you to all who have chipped in.  

Insulation was raised by one poster,  on Gemini  it is Rockwool which I believe is preferable as not a fire hazard with electric cables buried within.  Battery count, i think is 3 leisure ones  

Yes 2nd boat does look like poor use of space and good point about RCD which I would not have thought about, thank you garibaldi.  

Gemini has pump out loo which I prefer, but I know this is contentious point too, ( feel free to discuss ) I would not consider basic Porta-potti 

Overall am leaning towards first boat, Gemini, thanks to all above posters, I can now see the difference .   However the engine is older, ( Perkins Perama) should I be worried about that? 

 

 

 

 

 

Rockwool is preferred for the reason you gave, but it's harder to install than sprayfoam, so there's more chance it won't have been done well.  Welding on the hull risks melting sprayfoam or polystyrene underneath and causing condensation spots.

[Ally]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

20 footer? Is it a Springer Water Bug?

Marion (Mrs. Athy) and I recently realised that 'Trojan', which we still think of as "our new boat", was launched 14 years ago. Last I heard, Mel Davis was still creating fine boats in that old stone barn.

No! Not a springer fan I'm afraid.  Its just a bog standard tiny narrowboat,  built six years ago locally for someone who had no skills for fitting out, or understanding of requirements.  Faced with a BSS he ended up having to rip out what he'd done, so put it on land and sold it, seemingly to the cheapest bidder! So, newish hull, pretty ugly boat, everything removed (including ballast ?) except some nasty carpet hiding even nastier thin ply to the floor that a good bounce on would break. No line-out, just insulation, no engine, rusty blue outside. It appears to be my way to find newish failed projects and start them over!

Apologies to the OP for taking the thread off subject! 

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Ally said:

 

Apologies to the OP for taking the thread off subject! 

You have been away for a while, haven't you? You must have forgotten that it's the nature of CWDF threads to wander and meander like the South Oxford summit - or like normal conversations, in fact.

[booke23]

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

It was.  Alan helpfully showed how they're fundamentally different.  A porta-potti is basically a glorified bucket.  In fact some of the cheaper generic versions sold for campers really are a bucket with a toilet seat.  In any case, I wouldn't consider living on a boat with only a porta-potti to use.  A cassette toilet is much more like a normal toilet to use, it's actually plumbed in, so you can flush it in a similar way to a normal toilet too.

I can see what @Athy is getting at. They are pretty much the same when you're at the elsan point.......in both cases you take the container in and empty it in much the same way. However the cassette version is easier to handle compared to hauling the bottom of the more awkwardly shaped porta-potti. They are very different from an installation point of view as @Alan de Enfield very nicely illustrated. 

 

I wouldn't live with a porta potti as a main toilet either. I remember reading somewhere they have a limited 'duty cycle', so after 5000 sit downs it's likely to collapse! But they are useful as a reserve, especially if you have a pump out. 

 

[doratheexplorer]

8 minutes ago, booke23 said:

I can see what @Athy is getting at. They are pretty much the same when you're at the elsan point.......in both cases you take the container in and empty it in much the same way. However the cassette version is easier to handle compared to hauling the bottom of the more awkwardly shaped porta-potti. They are very different from an installation point of view as @Alan de Enfield very nicely illustrated. 

 

I wouldn't live with a porta potti as a main toilet either. I remember reading somewhere they have a limited 'duty cycle', so after 5000 sit downs it's likely to collapse! But they are useful as a reserve, especially if you have a pump out. 

 

Emptying them is much the same, but the items themselves are quite different.

[system 4-50]

Buying a old used boat, I would find RCD considerations an irrelevance.  More important would be satisfying myself as to the condition of the boat. 

I would go for a newer hull every time subject to checking for the absence of unusually heavy hull corrosion.

Rockwool installed to an unknown standard? Not my cup of tea.

 

[JamesFrance]

I would much rather a newish modern Japanese diesel than one probably 27 tears old claiming to be rebuilt, as well as the recent good quality shell.   The interior is the easier part to improve and the newer one would probably hold it's value better after a few years.