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frankling

Dilemma about surveyed boat

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14 hours ago, LadyG said:

 

I would say two forms of heating (not gas) and a bed to lie on are essentials if in a marina.

 

 

Yes two forms of heating and a bed. 🤔 

 

But if you're not in a marina you might get away without the bed. Other items like a kitchen sink and a toilet obviously aren't essential depending on whether or not you're in a marina.🥴

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17 hours ago, Athy said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "arrived at", but it was a standard size, at least at that time. Hallmark's boat, mass-produced in the late '90s and early '00s, had a tank of that capacity.

Point of order m'lud -my Hallmark boat (1998) has the standard water tank - it's 680 litres/150 gallons.

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6 minutes ago, pig said:

Point of order m'lud -my Hallmark boat (1998) has the standard water tank - it's 680 litres/150 gallons.

As did our 1999 Millenium model (40 foot)

 

 

 

A1.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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3 minutes ago, pig said:

Point of order m'lud -my Hallmark boat (1998) has the standard water tank - it's 680 litres/150 gallons.

I don't know what the capacity of mine is, but it's a lot. I can make one tank last 3 weeks.

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27 minutes ago, blackrose said:
15 hours ago, LadyG said:

I would say two forms of heating (not gas) and a bed to lie on are essentials if in a marina.

 

 

Yes two forms of heating

For me the bed is a must have even if in a marina, but as I'm often reminded on this forum I am a bit of a princess!

 

Interesting that you say two forms of heating. Don't the majority of people usually have either a solid fuel stove or a diesel heater?

 

Good advice, I am definitely in the 'lots of redundancy' camp of boaters because things do constantly need attention, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying it's essential. Particularly not to get started. Can always add a second form of heating next summer.

 

(Right now I only have a solid fuel stove but in the process of servicing and reinstalling my eberspacher and also installing a second stove at the other end of the boat.)

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6 minutes ago, pig said:

Point of order m'lud -my Hallmark boat (1998) has the standard water tank - it's 680 litres/150 gallons.

Interesting. When they were blitzing the boatimags with full-page adverts I read them carefully, as Mrs. Athy and I were looking to buy our first boat and they seemed to offer a lot of boat for the money. I distinctly remember their spec. mention a "181 litre water tank". I recall thinking that they had put the capacity in litres to make it sound bigger.

   Of course, that's 20-odd years ago and I may be confusing it with adverts for another make of boat, but I can't think which that would be.

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5 minutes ago, Athy said:

Interesting. When they were blitzing the boatimags with full-page adverts I read them carefully, as Mrs. Athy and I were looking to buy our first boat and they seemed to offer a lot of boat for the money. I distinctly remember their spec. mention a "181 litre water tank". I recall thinking that they had put the capacity in litres to make it sound bigger.

   Of course, that's 20-odd years ago and I may be confusing it with adverts for another make of boat, but I can't think which that would be.

The diesel tank is 180 litres - maybe that was what you read?

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4 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Don't the majority of people usually have either a solid fuel stove or a diesel heater?

 

 

It's hard to put a percentage on it, but I'd think that most people have both - certainly, from what I have read in these pages over a number of years, most liveaboards. If one goes wrong in January, you've got the other one as back-up; also a solid-fuel stove, especially if positioned at the front of the cabin as many are, may not produce heat which permeates along the length of the boat. This was certainly true of our first (second-hand) boat, whose bedroom was always bloody cold in winter. Hence, the two which we have had built since then have had both forms of heating, and have had their stoves part way along the cabin.

Just now, pig said:

The diesel tank is 180 litres - maybe that was what you read?

That's possible. Someone, somewhere, has one of those old adverts tucked away!

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14 hours ago, frankling said:

To everyone questioning the size of the water tank - that was a big concern of mine too. I asked the owners how they had gone on with it, and they said that they would take the boat out for 10 days at a time and not have to refill the tank (and that's with two people on board). That didn't sound too bad to me, as I estimated that at that rate, it would probably last me a fortnight at a time? But perhaps I'm miscalculating?

 

Ug, do you think? Don't think my negotiating skills are that fierce 😕 

 

 

You might politely ask that the price is reduced to cover the cost of the surveyor's recommendation of two part blacking.

If it is refused,then say you will meet halfway and cover half the cost yourslf.

I too find haggling over money a bit distasteful,but you might point out that the boat is top whack for that age.

As for water,I use bottled for drinking and making tea/coffee,I wouldn't trust tank water except for washing.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

 

As for water, I use bottled for drinking and making tea/coffee, I wouldn't trust tank water except for washing.

 

Same here (well, we fill old 4-pint milk bottles with tap water for drinking). It's something which divides members almost as much as pump-out versus cassette toilets.

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21 minutes ago, Athy said:

Same here (well, we fill old 4-pint milk bottles with tap water for drinking). It's something which divides members almost as much as pump-out versus cassette toilets.

Never bought bottled water or filled containers for drinking water.

In 50 years of drinking from integral water tanks, some that had not been opened in decades, we have never had a belly problem nor has anyone staying with us.

T'D

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2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Never bought bottled water or filled containers for drinking water.

In 50 years of drinking from integral water tanks, some that had not been opened in decades, we have never had a belly problem nor has anyone staying with us.

T'D

I rest my case.

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Price may be a little high but boats are selling like hot cakes at the moment. I would not worry about plate thickness as almost nothing has been lost from original spec. I used to build 40 foot yachts in steel and they were 4mm plate. The trick is to keep them painted, prefeably with two pack epoxy, and keep the bilges dry. Remember boats can rust fom the inside as well.. I would buy it and have it gritblasted and two packed as soon as you can and enjoy it. With the inflation which is coming down the line it will soon look like a bargain. (I seem to remember the nearby yard at Tarleton do gritblasting)

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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Never bought bottled water or filled containers for drinking water.

In 50 years of drinking from integral water tanks, some that had not been opened in decades, we have never had a belly problem nor has anyone staying with us.

T'D

do you drink plain water straight from the tank?

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

As did our 1999 Millenium model (40 foot)

 

 

 

A1.jpg

Look at those prices and dream, especially when one bears in mind that this was their more expensive premium model. We did seriously consider one, and at one point we came very close to writing a cheque for a fully-fitted Liverpool Boat, which I guess was Hallmark's main competitor at the time.

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17 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

do you drink plain water straight from the tank?

Yes. Why do you ask please?

6 minutes ago, Athy said:

Look at those prices and dream, especially when one bears in mind that this was their more expensive premium model. We did seriously consider one, and at one point we came very close to writing a cheque for a fully-fitted Liverpool Boat, which I guess was Hallmark's main competitor at the time.

I could never get on with the cabin side shape at the stern or the thinner plate used.

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12 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

In my opinion there are only two viable strategies - this one, buy cheap, consumable LAs and replace them often (highly recyclable items so don't sweat the footprint) or put in a permanent lithium system. Debatable and situational which is the cheaper strategy in the long term, but the quality of life from lithium was worth it for me.

 

12 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Ditto... I tried Trojans and Rolls, and continued in my role of battery killer.

 

Assuming my current set of lithiums are still going strong in 10 years time, it will have been the better strategy.

 

The improvement in quality of life is immense, as you say.

For me LifePo4s have made my life very easy its the speed of charging on solar that matters to me. Previously I had 2 volt tractions which are real deep cycle batteries arnt they Alan? But they never charged as fast as LifePo4s and you are back to charging to 100% at least once a week and that is a chore and costs fuel.

Myself I would if CCing buy leisure batteries until I was sure of what I was doing and then fit some LifePo4s 

1 hour ago, sailor0500 said:

Price may be a little high but boats are selling like hot cakes at the moment. I would not worry about plate thickness as almost nothing has been lost from original spec. I used to build 40 foot yachts in steel and they were 4mm plate. The trick is to keep them painted, prefeably with two pack epoxy, and keep the bilges dry. Remember boats can rust fom the inside as well.. I would buy it and have it gritblasted and two packed as soon as you can and enjoy it. With the inflation which is coming down the line it will soon look like a bargain. (I seem to remember the nearby yard at Tarleton do gritblasting)

I would do the same except it would be Zinga and then 2 pack on top 

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2 hours ago, Murflynn said:

do you drink plain water straight from the tank?

 

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Yes. Why do you ask please?

 

It might explain a lot !!!!

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Nothing wrong with drinking water out of the tank. The trick is to avoid all this obsession with hygiene, food standards etc. Do a load of travelling, eat dodgy street food, drink suspicious water etc. etc. By doing so you will likely contract virtually every disease known to man. This might seem a tad extreme but on returning to blighty you'll be immune to virtually everything and be able to live free, not worrying about what you eat or drink or whether the raw meat is above the cooked meat in the fridge, whether food is in date or not.

 

It's very liberating.   

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

It might explain a lot !!!!

I think that is a very unpleasant comment to make. I took you off ignore last week, thought I would give you another chance to be pleasant. How wrong could I have been?

 I can put up with your posturing, know it all attitude and the obsession you have about showing off your non-canal boat,, but not your bad manners.

So Mr Nasty, off you go again.

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11 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I think that is a very unpleasant comment to make. I took you off ignore last week, thought I would give you another chance to be pleasant. How wrong could I have been?

 I can put up with your posturing, know it all attitude and the obsession you have about showing off your non-canal boat,, but not your bad manners.

So Mr Nasty, off you go again.

Sense of humour failure !!

 

Guess you won't see this tho'

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1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Nothing wrong with drinking water out of the tank. The trick is to avoid all this obsession with hygiene, food standards etc. Do a load of travelling, eat dodgy street food, drink suspicious water etc. etc. By doing so you will likely contract virtually every disease known to man. This might seem a tad extreme but on returning to blighty you'll be immune to virtually everything and be able to live free, not worrying about what you eat or drink or whether the raw meat is above the cooked meat in the fridge, whether food is in date or not.

 

It's very liberating.   

Quite agree. A friend who was a hygienist was horrified to see our wooden chopping boards, until I pointed out that recent studies had shown that they held far less bacteria than plastic boards.  My son spent a couple of his very early years on a dairy farm. We frequently hauled him out of the muck and one day he proudly showed us the 'currants' he had found - he had just walked across the field where the sheep were...  He only had three days sick off school from the age of 4 to 18.

 

My previous boat had an integral tank and in the 12 years we had it we never opened the hatch. Peering in the filler showed a variety of rusticles but nothing actually swimming.  We did have a Springclear filter on the galley tap, which I back-flushed every few months if the flow got a bit slow.

 

Too much is made of over-protection from natural bugs (Covid excluded), so no chance of picking up any immunity.  As the grannies used to say "everybody needs to eat a bit of dirt".

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24 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Myself I would if CCing buy leisure batteries until I was sure of what I was doing and then fit some LifePo4s 

To provide a contrary view, I'd advise if new to batteries then go straight to Lifepos. If you know what you are doing with LAs it's worse than useless with Lifepos. Also if you are going to take the plunge and go with the lithium strategy, the sooner you do it the sooner it will pay off.

 

In my opinion what you DON'T want to do is buy "good quality" expensive LA batteries. This is analogous to buying a really high quality horsecart when the motor car is rising to prominence. I had a single "hybrid" 110Ah LA, cheapest I could find and heavily abused, that lasted 2 years. I've heard enough stories of Trojans and the like dying after two years to be well satisfied with that result.

 

2 hours ago, Athy said:

I'd think that most people have both - certainly, from what I have read in these pages over a number of years, most liveaboards. If one goes wrong in January, you've got the other one as back-up; also a solid-fuel stove, especially if positioned at the front of the cabin as many are, may not produce heat which permeates along the length of the boat. This was certainly true of our first (second-hand) boat, whose bedroom was always bloody cold in winter. Hence, the two which we have had built since then have had both forms of heating, and have had their stoves part way along the cabin.

Yes our stove is positioned right at the bow doors and the heat barely makes it halfway down the length of our 65' boat. With a second stove at the stern doors and a recently serviced Eberspacher driving rads I'll be much more comfortable with the level of redundancy. Almost makes me excited for the winter!

 

1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

The trick is to avoid all this obsession with hygiene, food standards etc. Do a load of travelling, eat dodgy street food, drink suspicious water etc. etc. By doing so you will likely contract virtually every disease known to man. This might seem a tad extreme but on returning to blighty you'll be immune to virtually everything and be able to live free, not worrying about what you eat or drink or whether the raw meat is above the cooked meat in the fridge, whether food is in date or not.

 

It's very liberating.   

To some extent I agree with you but I wouldn't take this as medical advice!! I agree that overconcern about hygiene is sometimes counterproductive but getting protection from one disease doesn't usually give you cross immunity to another. I'd guess that most of the concern about "tank water" is more about the chemicals leaching from the coatings than it is about any bugs. There's no immunity to lead :)

 

@Athy you were spot on with the tank vs bottled debate! Personally I drink the tank water, I do have a stainless steel tank though, which I sterilised with chlorine tablets when I bought the boat, and I have a countertop carbon filter (but that's more because I don't like the taste of the chlorine they put in the tap water than out of any concern for safety).

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1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Nothing wrong with drinking water out of the tank. The trick is to avoid all this obsession with hygiene, food standards etc. Do a load of travelling, eat dodgy street food, drink suspicious water etc. etc. By doing so you will likely contract virtually every disease known to man.    

and, (possibly), die?

It's very liberating?

46 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Sense of humour failure !!

 

Guess you won't see this tho'

:) 

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4 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

and, (possibly), die?

It's very liberating?

:) 

Oh, I did 'cos Richard quoted you.  Your sense of humour is worse than your manners.  If that is possible.

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