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Dilemma about surveyed boat


frankling

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15 minutes ago, frankling said:

...which will be many years in the future, I hope!

I just don't want to ever have to overplate, and want to be able to resell if this liveaboard plan turns out to be disastrous... 

The thickness you posted are just fine, it looks a nice boat, if things don't work out,  which I am sure they will, you will get most of your money back.

I had never been on a boat when I bought mine , I am now six years in and still loving it.

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41 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Better than not telling you until you get there!

This is very true and I have heard of this happening. I am grateful that they at least had the decency to tell me. 

 

41 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Why is it sharp practice to save you a wasted journey?

Of course it's not sharp practice to save a wasted journey. I was referring to the practice of booking to view a boat, only for them to sell it to someone who phones after you, and pays the deposit without viewing it. I said it was slightly sharp practice, but that's brokers......I don't blame them. They are running a business and it's in their interest to get their 6% commission for the least amount of work possible. 

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I think you should ask your surveyor for his opinion on the suitabilty of the boat for a liveaboard, I am assuming you told vendor that was your requirement.

I would say two forms of heating (not gas) and a bed to lie on are essentials if in a marina.

If you are working Mon to Fri and constant cruising, that is a whole different ball game.

We don't know exactly how committed you are in terms of having made an offer subject to survey, did you sign anything?

Is there a broker involved, does the vendor have proof of ownership, see the RYA site for a Bill of Sale. You must ensure any boat you buy is sold "free of encumbrances", read the Bill of Sale proformer. Is there a history with this boat, ownership, Bill of Sale, recent receipts etc.

 

I met up with the surveyor just as he finished his survey, and he walked me round the boat pointing out the main things needing attention. Think I mentioned that the plan was to live on it and constant cruise for the first year at least, but perhaps not - there are a few things I wanted to check with him, so will mention it again.

It's with a broker (the marina owners), and I've put down a 10% deposit, with the boat off the market for 7 days post-survey, during which time I need to decide whether to go ahead with the sale, or back out because of concerns raised by the survey. If the sale goes ahead, I was going to do some research into what paperwork the broker should provide, and maybe come back here to doublecheck. Is it the broker's job to check the paperwork (eg ensuring that the boat is "free of encumbrances", getting receipts etc from the owners), or should I do this independently anyway?

Also I was going to ask if the current owners could do a handover and show me how everything works - guess this is a fairly standard request?

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4 minutes ago, booke23 said:

This is very true and I have heard of this happening. I am grateful that they at least had the decency to tell me. 

 

Of course it's not sharp practice to save a wasted journey. I was referring to the practice of booking to view a boat, only for them to sell it to someone who phones after you, and pays the deposit without viewing it. I said it was slightly sharp practice, but that's brokers......I don't blame them. They are running a business and it's in their interest to get their 6% commission for the least amount of work possible. 

If somebody pays a deposit, thats it end of.

 

Its not sharp practice. The broker is doing the best for the seller which is what they are obliged to do.

 

What happens if you turned up, didn't like the boat and the original buyer has bought another  boat elsewhere.

 

I'd be well peed off with the broker if I was the seller.

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In your opinion, what are the differences between 'leisure batteries' and 'starter batteries' ?

What is the definition of 'Deep cycle batteries', ?

just the label I would imagine and a hefty price hike.

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Just now, booke23 said:

Correct, It's slightly sharp practice.  

Its nothing even close to sharp practice.

 

The broker's job is to sell the boat,

 

boat gets sold, job done.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, frankling said:

It's with a broker (the marina owners), and I've put down a 10% deposit, with the boat off the market for 7 days post-survey, during which time I need to decide whether to go ahead with the sale, or back out because of concerns raised by the survey

 

I'd check your sale agreement very carefully.  

 

Backing out due to problems or defects (usually over 5% or 10% of the agreed price) found by the survey is one thing, changing your mind because you hadn't asked the right questions might cost you your 10% deposit.

 

That said, I think you are now less concerned about the hull thickness than you were. 

 

Who did you get to do the survey?

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Just now, booke23 said:

I don't agree. 

Well yes.

 

But you are still wrong.

 

The broker is contractually obliged to the seller to accept the best offer made for their boat.

 

An obligation to a potential buyer to hold off a deposit being paid pending a later viewing simply doesnt exist.

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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

I don't believe that about the tank, its tiny. Land based domestic consumption is reckoned to be 50 GALLONS per person per day. Mine is 1020 litres, last 2 of us 3 weeks showering, drinking and washing, loo flushes with grey water. What does the loo flush with on this boat - fresh air?

 

You only find out by trying. So they don't like a big reduction?  You can go up!  How long has it been on sale? Remember that the broker is taking his percentage, so the more you knock off the less the seller gives the broker.

I have bought boats and cars with 30% off by turning up with a Tesco bag of cash, what the seller and broker do with it is up to them.

Yes, I checked the figures for average household water consumption after seeing that the tank was 40 gallons, since most of the boats I'd previously looked at were around 120. But the answer to, "Roughly how long can the boat go before refuelling/refilling the water tank?", was "diesel on these [10-day] journeys would use a third of the tank and water wouldn’t need filling" - are you thinking that they may have misremembered the water situation? Or perhaps they never showered and only drank beer...

 

Ahhhh, you are clearly a tough negotiator! I like the image of you stomping down the street with banknotes overflowing from your Tesco bags. The boat went on sale Thursday morning, I drove over there straight away, really liked it, and put in an offer that afternoon. There had been one viewing before me.

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1 hour ago, frankling said:

To everyone questioning the size of the water tank - that was a big concern of mine too. I asked the owners how they had gone on with it, and they said that they would take the boat out for 10 days at a time and not have to refill the tank (and that's with two people on board). That didn't sound too bad to me, as I estimated that at that rate, it would probably last me a fortnight at a time? But perhaps I'm miscalculating?

I dont know how big my water tank is, but it last me about 3 weeks. You will never be too far from a water point so, once you know how fast you use it, you can plan your route. Might make life interesting. You have a lot of space under your freestanding bed, so you could always add a second tank in the future.

 

My tank almost certainly needs scraping and painting, but I wont be doing it any time soon. water looks OK, and I've not suffered.

1 hour ago, frankling said:

 

Ug, do you think? Don't think my negotiating skills are that fierce ? 

 

 

Tracy isn't:

 

1) homeless on Monday

2) Buying a boat in a hot market, where the answer to a negotiation can easily be.... "We'll leave it thanks - Good luck finding another!"

3) Buying a lovely looking boat, with a good survey, as a home for the foreseeable future

4) Going to have to find another boat, just as nice, and in as good condition, and pay for another survey.

 

What do you lose if you pay what you've offered?

 

What could you lose if you negotiate too hard, and lose the boat?

 

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1 hour ago, booke23 said:

Very badly!

Twice recently I've phoned a broker to make an appointment the next day to view a boat that has just come on the market, and both times the broker phoned back an hour or so later to say someone had put a deposit down over the phone. It's very frustrating and IMO slightly sharp practice......but that's brokers for you. 

 

Exactly my thoughts. I'm really not comfortable with committing to purchase just from photos/video no matter how good the boat seems, but at the moment that is how the market is and I may have to bite the bullet. 

 

Oh and something else I've learnt is that knackered batteries are pretty much standard on used boats being sold!

Shucks, sorry to hear that! It is hugely frustrating. The only ones that seem to hang around for any length of time are the ones at Venetian and Whilton marinas, but having read the posts about Whilton on here, it would make me wary to buy from them. Now I'm really curious to know if we have been to look at any of the same boats, and whether your impressions were the same as mine!

I suppose at least the broker let you know that a deposit had been taken, so you didn't make a wasted journey; but it is so disappointing when you see one that you like the look of, and then it goes in a blink.

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Just now, booke23 said:

Nope. You cannot argue with someone's perception. 

You can when they are factually wrong.

 

Its not sharp practice. It's an obligation to the seller.

 

The broker has no contractual obligation to you as a potential buyer.

 

I can repeat this as many times as required until it sinks in.

 

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44 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Re replacing leisure batteries, I would be very wary, you need deep cycle / leisure / batteries, the auto shop starter batteries arecheaper, but no use for anything other than staritng the engine. 

It is very common for vendors to sell boat with end of life batteries, especially if they are marina based, using shoreline 230 volts.

It was the surveyor who told me to get the sellers to replace them before finalising the sale. How would you approach the situation? Would you just eat the cost and buy them yourself? There are four leisure + one starter, so quite costly to replace all five...

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1 hour ago, booke23 said:

Oh and something else I've learnt is that knackered batteries are pretty much standard on used boats being sold!

You might have learned that surveyors saying batteries are knackered on used boats being sold is pretty much standard.

 

How do they know, in a survey that lasts a few hours, where they almost certainly only put a meter on them?

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2 hours ago, frankling said:

Yes, I agree it's not ideal! But I'm sure I can learn how to do some stuff - I have a book about boat maintenance, and there is so much information available on the internet these days, and I can maybe pay people in the beginning and watch closely how they do things before having a go myself. No doubt it will be a very steep learning curve, but everyone has to start somewhere, and I don't think that boat ownership should be limited only to people who are already amazing joiners/mechanics/sparkies etc ?

Start here http://www.tb-training.co.uk/

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8 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Martin can start an argument with himself in a phonebox.  It's one of the reasons why he got a lifetime ban from this site.

 

Setting up a new account seems to have fooled the mods though, so he's back and back at his old tricks.

 

He assures us it's not the drinking though, so we can only conclude he's just nasty.

There is no one much nastier than you on this site with comments such as this.

 

You are actually the one who posts under the influence as Ive pointed out previously.

 

Looking in the mirror again?

 

But as you have chipped in, obviously in support of the suggestion there is sharp practice in play do you care to explain why you think this? (Assuming you can comprehend).

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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8 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Martin can start an argument with himself in a phonebox.  It's one of the reasons why he got a lifetime ban from this site.

 

Setting up a new account seems to have fooled the mods though, so he's back and back at his old tricks.

 

He assures us it's not the drinking though, so we can only conclude he's just nasty.

Oh I see! 

 

Thank you for that insight. I will say no more!

Edited by booke23
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3 minutes ago, frankling said:

It was the surveyor who told me to get the sellers to replace them before finalising the sale. How would you approach the situation? Would you just eat the cost and buy them yourself? There are four leisure + one starter, so quite costly to replace all five...

 

Standard 110Ah lesiure batteries are about £90 each delivered, depending on where you buy them from.  I'd ask for £500 back to cover the cost of getting the batteries installed as per your surveyor's comments, then see how bad they really are ...

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Rickent said:

just the label I would imagine and a hefty price hike.

Good brands which, if described as "deep cycle", are "deep cycle", are Rolls and Trojan...there will be others.

 

If a battery is advertised with a CCA, it isnt a deep cycle battery, it's a starter battery.

 

If a battery is cheap, it's cheap for a reason.

 

If you are like Smelly, (God Forbid), you can treat them as consumables, buy cheap, and keep replacing them every couple of years, when they no longer do what you need. Not a bad strategy.

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