Zanussi Washing machine with Victron Inverter problem

[Monkeybox]

Hi,

 

I have come across / rediscovered this forum while googling about a problem I am having running a Zannusi ZWC1301 washing machine from a Victron Inverter. 
 

I istalled the machine a while ago and only ever used it while plugged in to shore power. 
I have a Victron 12/1200 inverter that predates the installation. 
 

Having recently refreshed my leisure batteries (8pzb520 about 600 ah at C20) and invested in a reasonable amount of solar I thought I should be able to run it from the inverter on the cold wash without problem. However, it keeps clicking in and out, won’t spin properly, doesn’t complete the cycle etc. which I now know many have experienced from reading various posts here. It doesn’t overload the inverter, it just seems confused by the power source. 
 

I have read about the sudden switching on/off it does causing harmonics (?) in the wave form and that a work around is to plug a 100w bulb into the 240v side. Trying to do everything as energy efficiently as possible that is not a very desirable solution...

 

Switching other heavy loads on at key points in the cycle does seem to coax it into working better. Not very practical though!

 

I have been planning to upgrade to a Multiplus 12/3000. Not specifically to run the washing machine but I am wondering if anyone can tell me if the machine is more likely to be happy with the larger inverter?
 

If not I am now considering going to the expense and hassle of changing the washing machine to something that will accept the inverter. 
 

I am very happy with the Zannusi’s performance on shore power. I had no idea this was a potential issue when I got it as I understood the inverter power to be similar if not better than shore power.  
 

Trouble is, all my system is Victron. I really like them in general and am not likely to change all that side of things.

 

Can anyone tell me if they have experience of the other popular small washing machine Candi working with a Victron inverter?

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

44 minutes ago, Monkeybox said:

Can anyone tell me if they have experience of the other popular small washing machine Candi working with a Victron inverter?

There have been examples of folks running identical washing machines and identical inverters, one works fine and the other doesn't, so there is obvioulsy some very slight 'manufacturing tolerance' between either machines or inverters.

 

It may be worth asking anyone with the same machine of yours and see if there is any commonality in inverters that 'work'.

However there will be no guarantee that your machine will work.

 

Have you considered a quality sine wave generator ?

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, Monkeybox said:

Can anyone tell me if they have experience of the other popular small washing machine Candi working with a Victron inverter?

My candy is temperamental on my victron.  Washes fine, then I have to restart it to get it to rinse and again for spin.

Is all the power saving turned of on the victron, this can cause problems with WM. 

I am looking to try a dummy load (60w light bulb) with mine to see if it helps, if I ever get back to the boat.

[Tractor]

The machine load appears to be 1600 Watts, which will be including the heater. Too high for the Victron I guess.

[rustynewbery]

Not entirely the same as your problem but similar. Modern washing machines are somewhat intolerant.  I have a Mastervolt 6000Ultra generator on board but I had no end of problems with a Candy front loader which replaced a Servis which went phut.  We had to have a fan heater on to get the thing to spin and in the end it went to the mother in law and we got another Servis. It was frequency related and if not exactly 50Hz would cause problems.  I know of another boat with a Whisper 3600 and Zanussi which didn't work properly.

 

I think a 1200W inverter is not up to the job.

[Kendorr]

I have the same washing machine on a Victron Multi 3000, it works absolutely fine.

[GUMPY]

Something just triggered in my memory bank.

Even on a cold wash the Zanussi switches on the heater for a nanno second 

Bad programming! Rather than checking temperature required then turning on the heater if required, the heater comes on and then the temperature is checked and the heater switched off if not needed.

It took me ages to suss this out when I had a Zanussi, swopped it for a Candy which worked on my old 1kW inverter but doesn't like the Victron  for other reasons as said earlier.

 

Bigger inverter may well sort it.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Loddon

[pearley]

Our original Zanussi ZWC 1300 worked fine off inverter provided power save mode was switched off.

 

It's replacement ZWC 1301 refused to work.

 

The drum bearing on that failed a year ago and was replaced under warranty. The new one works fine.

 

Victron told me there was circuitry in the washer called grid detection.

[Monkeybox]

Thanks, yes it is rated at 1600w. The element is 1400w. I realise 1200w is too small if the element is being used. I have a BMV Battey Monitor and am watching the current draw. It doesn’t trip the inverter which I know will provide a bit more than that for a short time.

I was always intending to get the Multi 12/3000 when I’ve saved up for it, but was interested to see if the 1200 could power the cold wash in the meantime. 
 
Cutting out because of too high a draw I could understand, but this erratic behaviour was not expected.  After then reading lots about problems with Victron Zanussi combinations I became concerned that even after I install a decent big inverter we still won’t be able to use the washing machine away from shore power. Not keen to also have to replace an otherwise good machine. 
 

I am not using the power save mode, though I have tried both to see if it makes any difference. 
 

Interesting what you say re. it turning the element on for a short period. I wonder if it is doing that. It does make a click before starting a spin and I put the 1000w kettle on briefly which encourages it to spin. If I don’t it does a half turn then stops and tries again. You’d think that would trip the inverter but it handles it no problem in brief bursts. 

 

Encouraging to hear at least one person using the combination I plan to have soon with no problems.
 

Hoping maybe the bigger inverter won’t feel the “shocks” of the sudden stop starts like a smaller one does.
 

Fingers crossed it isn’t just a fact that Victron / Zanussi aren’t compatible. 
 

Interesting that you spoke to Victron about this problem. I wonder what Grid Detect is actually checking. The frequency maybe?

[canal66]

I have the same problems with  a Zanussi washer on a 3000 multi victron Running a load ie a Miele vacuum on lowest setting 25 amps everry think is good no clicking  Does the Inverter need setting up ??

[Tracy D'arth]

I have had 5 Zanussi 1300 machines on boats that would fail to complete the cycle when on inverters. The problem seems to be that in the pauses between cycles the machine draws very little power and the inverters go to sleep. Running with a 40w lamp on at the same time cures this in my experience.

 

But your inverter is too small as well, I think you are expecting too much. You could try disconnecting the heater element but that may send the machine into a fault mode, I don't know.

[canal66]

No its not to small it is  the big 3000 inverter but i will try it with a 40watt lamp thanks 

[blackrose]

I have the Zanussi 1300ZWC which I bought in 2006. I can run it from my Honda EU30 generator but it always hesitates. Sometimes I have to wait for 20 mins before the washing machine decides to accept mains from the generator. Once it's going it always completes the full wash.

Edited June 30, 2021 by blackrose

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, canal66 said:

No its not to small it is  the big 3000 inverter but i will try it with a 40watt lamp thanks 

Sorry, trying to answer 2 posts at the same time, I can no longer multitask.

[pearley]

Putting a small load on at the same time as the washer didn't work with ours.

[Sea Dog]

4 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Sorry, trying to answer 2 posts at the same time, I can no longer multitask.

You answered a new post that popped up on an old thread Tracy - the OP had a 1200kva inverter, so you were right with that in mind. 

[George and Dragon]

On 30/06/2021 at 21:15, Sea Dog said:

the OP had a 1200kva inverter

On a boat? Must have been quite a large boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

41 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

On a boat? Must have been quite a large boat.

 

 

I think its called a 'power station'.

[Monkeybox]

Thought I’d post a follow up. 

I got a 3000/12 multiplus and… exactly the same problem. 
Got a washing machine engineer in who went all over it without finding any problems. 
Plugged in to shore power (which I have managed to avoid for over 2 years) and… it worked perfectly. 

 

So I have a nice powerful inverter that can’t run the main thing I got it for, and a washing machine with no faults that I can’t use. 😠

 

Oh well, I will try playing with the Hz and Voltage output, but it is already set as specified on the washing machine so I don’t hold out much hope. 

 

what to do. Different washing machine?

[blackrose]

4 minutes ago, Monkeybox said:

 

what to do. Different washing machine?

 

That might be your only solution I'm afraid. The Zanussi compact is a good little washing machine but there's something in there that doesn't like even pure sinewaves unless it's from the mains. 

 

Fortunately there are now other washing machines on the market with larger load capacity that draw about the same 1600w max as the Zanussi. 

[Tracy D'arth]

25 minutes ago, Monkeybox said:

Thought I’d post a follow up. 

I got a 3000/12 multiplus and… exactly the same problem. 
Got a washing machine engineer in who went all over it without finding any problems. 
Plugged in to shore power (which I have managed to avoid for over 2 years) and… it worked perfectly. 

 

So I have a nice powerful inverter that can’t run the main thing I got it for, and a washing machine with no faults that I can’t use. 😠

 

Oh well, I will try playing with the Hz and Voltage output, but it is already set as specified on the washing machine so I don’t hold out much hope. 

 

what to do. Different washing machine?

The Zanussi washer goes into a low energy state between some of the stages in a wash. Mine does before the last spin and the inverter thinks that there is nothing needing power. If I leave an incandecent  light on with the washer it goes through the cycle completely without a hitch.   Won't work with LEDs.  Try it.  It has worked for several posters on here before.

[pearley]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The Zanussi washer goes into a low energy state between some of the stages in a wash. Mine does before the last spin and the inverter thinks that there is nothing needing power. If I leave an incandecent  light on with the washer it goes through the cycle completely without a hitch.   Won't work with LEDs.  Try it.  It has worked for several posters on here before.

Never worked with ours.

[Tracy D'arth]

4 minutes ago, pearley said:

Never worked with ours.

Well tough, can't win them all.     I know of 4 friends with this washer and it worked for them. Not sure which inverters they were using though.

 

I have changed inverters and it works with both of these, one a 20 year old pure sine 1500w and the other a new Chinese cheapy pure sine 2500w

Edited June 4, 2022 by Tracy D'arth

[pearley]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Well tough, can't win them all.     I know of 4 friends with this washer and it worked for them. Not sure which inverters they were using though.

 

I have changed inverters and it works with both of these, one a 20 year old pure sine 1500w and the other a new Chinese cheapy pure sine 2500w

We had 3 of the Zanussi compacts. First one no trouble, second one would only work with gennie or shoreline, that failed under warranty and was replaced. That replacement worked perfectly! So you can win sometimes.

[blackrose]

I run mine from a Honda generator rather than an inverter. As I mentioned previously in this thread, it doesn't like the pure sinewave from the generator and it hesitates to start, but eventually it always does. Once it starts it keeps going through the full cycle and I've never had problem during the cycle with low energy states.