Leaking Canal Wall

[Mukhtar Sanders]

Hi our small commercial unit building sits parallel to the canal in West Drayton, Greater West London. We have a wall that separates the canal and our forecourt. Water has been leaking through the wall since earlier this year due to an Elderflower tree growing out of the side of the bank that has died and the roots have receded causing the problem. I assumed that this was the responsibility of the Canal River Trust since the tree is behind a fence and on the bank of the canal. We have carried out independent reviews of the situation and the reports concluded that it is the Canal River Trust's responsibility not ours. I have spoken to our solicitor whom we arranged the conveyancing and unfortunately the Land Registry does not indicate who's wall it is. After more than 5 months of chasing them up finally they sent us an email telling us that "The 'offside canal wall' belongs to the landowner, who has the responsibility to repair these defects". Confusingly, they want us to make a non refundable application for the works (£456) plus give them a purchase order for £5,000 for future billing purpose. Does anyone have any advice? We are a small business and this is the last thing we need to have to deal with! Thanks

[Iain_S]

From the photo, it looks like the forecourt is below the water level in the canal.

Have you tried reporting it to CaRT as a leak?

[Mukhtar Sanders]

Hi Lain, yes I have reported to them since May but has taken until now to get a reply saying it is my responsibility. Yes that is correct that the forecourt is below the water level of the canal.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Mukhtar Sanders

[BEngo]

That is typical 1950s era concrete piling with railway line waling to hold the piles together.  It was installed by one of CRT's predecessors such as DIWE or British Transport Waterways or even the British Waterways Board.  In my view that makes it the property of CRT, and their responsibility.

  In any event it is CRT's water that is causing a nuisance to you.

Getting them to do anything will be difficult.  You could try responding to their e-mail by noting that it is your wall and giving them notice that you intend to remove it, starting on a specified date  at a specified time.  Give them a  fair warning period. Specifically advise them that they will need to take steps to keep their water in its place on or before this date.

AFAIK there is no general requirement in UK law for a landowner to maintain boundary fences or wall.  Hence the expression good fences good neighbours make.

N

 

[Heartland]

Following on from what BEngo has stated. The work of concrete pilling has the look of British Waterways, but could be earlier.

 

If the leak is because of the piling being damaged by roots, the repair, it seems reasonable to assume, lies with those who installed the piling or their successors. Yet looking at the business premises there was there other premises on this site before these units were made?

 

[Mukhtar Sanders]

Hi Heartland thanks as far as I know these properties were built in 1940s. I have no idea if there were other premises before the units were made. Not sure how to find out.

[dor]

Whilst the piling looks like typical waterways, crt could argue that it is the landowner’s tree that is causing the damage and so is their responsibility.

 I would cut the tree down pretty smartish.

[zenataomm]

That makes sense. ?

Waterways want to own a ransom strip on the off side in case you want to moor a boat against it, however if their thin strip of land needs repairing it's suddenly everybody else's problem.

Tell them you're going to moor boats against that bank, then when they tell you you can't because it's theirs, tell them to come and repair it ..... seeing as it's theirs.

[David Mack]

Alternatively, just do the work yourself without asking for permission. Take down the fence, dig out the tree root, bang in a load of clay compacting it down well, then put the fence back. Just make sure you don't damage the concrete piling or any tie rods which go back into the land and do not allow any material to fall into the canal. No leak onto your property, less cost than getting CRT involved, and you've solved their problem at the same time, so they'll turn a blind eye (if they even notice).

 

[Heartland]

Interesting  advice, I suppose the ball is now in your court. But as to location, can be checked for previous industrial activity, where is your unit?

[alias]

47 minutes ago, Heartland said:

Interesting  advice, I suppose the ball is now in your court. But as to location, can be checked for previous industrial activity, where is your unit?

Just here I think: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5124993,-0.4749856,3a,37.5y,234.45h,91.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAF1QipOczozuHeotsKkCSwnlhXPcn-EUFE6oB0pH5sn4!2e10!7i5376!8i2688

[Iain_S]

58 minutes ago, dor said:

Whilst the piling looks like typical waterways, crt could argue that it is the landowner’s tree that is causing the damage and so is their responsibility.

 I would cut the tree down pretty smartish.

Looking at the photo, the tree looks to be on the canal side of the wall.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mukhtar Sanders said:

Hi Heartland thanks as far as I know these properties were built in 1940s. I have no idea if there were other premises before the units were made. Not sure how to find out.

Have a look at some historical mapping of the area.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=14&lat=54.57480&lon=-1.18760&layers=193&right=BingHyb

[matty40s]

1 minute ago, Iain_S said:

Looking at the photo, the tree looks to be on the canal side of the wall.

Looks to me that lack of offside vegetation maintenance has led to your company being inconvenienced and put at risk.

I would (as Zenatoom says)first inform CRT that you are going to moor a boat there. When they either refuse you permission, or try to charge you an end of garden mooring fee, it is an admission of ownership and responsibility.

Removing the wall may result in more flooding, or a breach if the piling gives way.

[Mad Harold]

Surely it's CRT's water that is leaking.They are responsible for the navigation and are responsible for keeping water in the canal.

You might try Zenatoom's suggestion,you have nothing to lose.It sounds as though CRT are trying it on.

[Heartland]

There were a few canal branches at Yiewsley and it was where William Clayton, father of Thomas, was associated with

I suspect the area has a complicated history and also raises a point as to where the canal water is seeping in from- and if it the tree or another cause.