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Preparing for winter


RickS

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Just a quickie, hopefully ?

I live (at the moment) about three hours away from the boat and go there about once a week, whilst trying to sort out the various little (?) things that need doing.

My question is, with that sort of time interval, should I go the whole hog for winter - draining the water etc (actually not 100% sure what the etc is) - or would visiting once a week or so be OK? I don't want to have to fill up a container of water every time I go, but nor do I want burst pipes!

Advice gratefully received

  

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18 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

Just a quickie, hopefully ?

I live (at the moment) about three hours away from the boat and go there about once a week, whilst trying to sort out the various little (?) things that need doing.

My question is, with that sort of time interval, should I go the whole hog for winter - draining the water etc (actually not 100% sure what the etc is) - or would visiting once a week or so be OK? I don't want to have to fill up a container of water every time I go, but nor do I want burst pipes!

Advice gratefully received

  

Turn the pump off and open the taps.  Job done.

  • Greenie 1
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12 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Turn the pump off and open the taps.  Job done.

As above!

For years I used to drain down - well empty the main water tank a bit, until a frined on another forum published the results of his measurements over quite a cold winter, which showed that below the water line the temperature never fell below 4 degrees Centigrade.

 

Now all I do is to open all taps- don't forget the filtered supply if you have one and possibly the loo if you have a water seal on it.

I'm Darn Sarf, thus if you're in the blizzards of the north above Hatfield, you may care to do something more extreme....

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I did use the water pump to drain the tank but then just left the taps open. Remember the shower mixer may not drain so I took it off and caped the connections. Also its vital to drain any instant gas water heaters.

 

Having the tank emptyish is ready for sterilising next spring if that is what you do,

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Thanks Tony B OldGoat and doratheexplorer, that's encouraging. So, just so I am 100% sure of what you mean (my understanding , not your explanation!) every time i leave the boat to come home (the boat is near Daventry), I should turn the water pump off (by turning the battery isolator off, which I do every time I leave) and open all the taps? That sounds so simple, thank you.

Presumably this is in case of possible expansion due to freezing?

 

The central heating is diesel fired - someone has told me I should put some anti-freeze in the header tank - now all I have to do is identify the header tank and figure out how much to put in ?

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If you have a paloma type gas water heater ENSURE you drain it down or the core will split if it gets below freezing. Dont ask me how I know this to be a fact. If you are on lectric hook up leave some small heaters on low setting it will cost you 10 quid a week or a bit more and well worth it to keep damp at bay.

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2 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

I should turn the water pump off (by turning the battery isolator off, which I do every time I leave) and open all the taps? That sounds so simple, thank you.

Turn the water ';stop-cock' off, open the taps allowing the water to be pumped out by the pump, when the pump continues to run and no water comes out switch off the pump.

 

Remove any shower head, lay shower hose on the floor. Open ALL taps (including shower)

Close all the hot taps, 

Put your mouth around one of the cold taps and blow for as hard and as long as you can to get as much of the remaing water out of the pipes.

Close the cold taps, open all of the hot taps, blow ....................

Open cold taps.

 

Go home.

 

The only split pipes I have had have actually been where joints have 'blown' apart due to water collecting where the pipes change angle or height.

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1 minute ago, Rick Savery said:

Thanks Tony B OldGoat and doratheexplorer, that's encouraging. So, just so I am 100% sure of what you mean (my understanding , not your explanation!) every time i leave the boat to come home (the boat is near Daventry), I should turn the water pump off (by turning the battery isolator off, which I do every time I leave) and open all the taps? That sounds so simple, thank you. Yes.  I have a switch for my pump, but a battery isolator is 'belt&braces'.  If you have a shower, turn that on too, and drop the shower head into the trap, to let it drip.

Presumably this is in case of possible expansion due to freezing? Yes.

 

The central heating is diesel fired - someone has told me I should put some anti-freeze in the header tank - now all I have to do is identify the header tank and figure out how much to put in ?

 

You might want to turn the gas off at the bottle, in case of leaks.

 

Other than that, it's up to you really.  Some people drain the whole system.  Some take all soft furnishings out.  Some leave a dehumidfier on.  Some leave a small electric heater on.  All have their upsides and downsides.

 

I liveaboard but one time I left my boat for a week in a really cold snap (even daytime temps remained well below freezing)  but hadn't planned for it (went away for the night and became seriously ill).  I had done no winterising at all.  When i returned, the only problem was that my radiators has ice sticking out of them through pinholes in repair putty that the previous owner had put in.  Presumably he had radiator problems!  When the boat warmed back up, the putty reclosed the pinholes by magic!!!  After that, I put a bit of anti freeze in my central heating.

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I always drain the calorifier on our boat. lt does have two insulating jackets over it but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I forgot about the water filtre one year and yes the ice forced the top off. 

 

Old water filtre. Picture from when we first bought the boat.

The top screwed on. The ice broke the threads on the main unit

random 064.jpg

 

New tap with filtre unit in cupboard below.

latest additions 03.10 006.jpg

Edited by Ray T
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Thanks all. I'm certainly not taking the mattress out considering how difficult it was getting it in in the first place.

 

Again, just so I'm clear, Alan de Enfield - isn't what you are suggesting a complete drain down rather than just turning off the pump and opeing the taps?

 

I have an oil-filled radiator - would leaving that on low be safe whilst I'm away? It does make me nervous!

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1 minute ago, Ray T said:

We have been using a little electric oil filled radiator ever since we got the boat, 10 years ago now, never had any problems.

This is our experience, others may differ.:)

When we holiday and leave the boat over winter for periods we always leave 3 oil filled rads on low settings. Also never had a problem.

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17 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

Thanks all. I'm certainly not taking the mattress out considering how difficult it was getting it in in the first place.

 

Again, just so I'm clear, Alan de Enfield - isn't what you are suggesting a complete drain down rather than just turning off the pump and opeing the taps?

 

I have an oil-filled radiator - would leaving that on low be safe whilst I'm away? It does make me nervous!

No its not a full drain down - it only takes a couple of continuous days of zero degrees for the small amounts of water 'above canal water level' to freeze and 'pop joints'.

It takes no more that 5 minutes to 'drain down' and when you return to the boat you simply close the taps and switch the pump back on (1 minute job ?)

 

I now have 6 foot long greenhouse heaters running down each side of the engine room which I have on timers so the come on 3 x a day for about 4 hours each time (Evening, middle of the night/early into the morning and again mid day) this keeps all the pipework, calorifier filter, engines etc from freezing and costs roughtly £1 per day in 'leccy. Obvioulsy only practical if you are on a shore-line.

I'm planning on trying a 2kw oil filled radiator this year switched by a 'frost' thermostat, as the problem with the 'timers' is that they come on even if the temperature is 'in the teens'.

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My mistake Alan - just re-read your post 'turn the stop-cock off' was the big clue I failed to grasp ?

So I'm only draining the pipes of existing water rather than the tank? 

I think that is the way i shall proceed plus the oil-filled radiator left on low - that really makes me uneasy, the thought of leaving an appliance on when Im not there. I suspect that is a hang-up from living in houses

 

7 minutes ago, Tonka said:

and with lockdowns coming in when will you be able to return to the boat ?

That is a good point - I don;t want to fly under the radar as it were, but neither do i want to break rules just because they may be inconvenient 

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1 minute ago, Rick Savery said:

My mistake Alan - just re-read your post 'turn the stop-cock off' was the big clue I failed to grasp ?

So I'm only draining the pipes of existing water rather than the tank? 

I think that is the way i shall proceed plus the oil-filled radiator left on low - that really makes me uneasy, the thought of leaving an appliance on when Im not there. I suspect that is a hang-up from living in houses

 

check your insurance covers you. I have heard of cases  where the radiator falls over and then sets the boat alight and no insurance will cover it.

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I bought a little temperature data logger on eBay, it records the temp every 15 mins.  Left it on the boat floor by the toilet over a couple winters and the temperature never went below freezing.  - Gloucester area.  So now I don’t bother to drain down the water system, but if it turned very cold I am an hour away and would go and do something.

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Complete water drain down, main tank, all pipework, leaving taps open.

We are lucky the builder put the water drain pipe direct to the bilge pump, open drain tap, let it do it's thing, followed by blowing down the shower pipe(Clears the lower pipe work) Flushes out the bilge pump as well!

Radiators, get an anti-freeze tester,( from any car shop), check the radiator water, as well as the engine coolant, if either are below 30% mix, then either top  up the antifreeze level whilst the pumps/engine is running, to ensure proper mixing. (You may have to remove a bucket full first.) OR drain down either or both systems.  Both systems will be damaged expensively by freezing.

Our boat is at Crick, having seen the ice thick enough to walk on, then a few hours work to get several months peace of mind is worth it.

 

Bod

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I have a mains electricity supply on my EoG mooring.

 

To winterise I:

 

1. Turn off the isolator valve at the water tank and open the taps until no more water comes out. Then turn pump off at breaker.

 

2. Shake the shower hose and drop the head as low as it will go.

 

3. Plug 2 x 700 watt heaters into a "plug through" thermostat set to 5°C. Place on by the airing cupboard where the calorifier lives and one part way between the bathroom and galley.

 

4. Plug in a Meaco DD8L dehumidifier in and block vents (folded bathroom sponges in mushrooms, blutac cardboard over louvres). Prior to getting the dehumidifier I used to get tne occasional cupboard door swelling slightly and jamming.

 

The entire process takes abput 5 minutes, so when I want to go out for a winter cruise it doesnt take long to reverse the winterisation.

Edited by cuthound
Phat phingers
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4 hours ago, OldGoat said:

For years I used to drain down - well empty the main water tank a bit, until a frined on another forum published the results of his measurements over quite a cold winter, which showed that below the water line the temperature never fell below 4 degrees Centigrade.

He didn't need to measure this. Water reaches its maximum density at 4C, colder than this it gets less dense again and rises to the surface -- which is why ice forms there instead of at the bottom.

 

It's been said that this unique property of water is responsible for life on earth surviving ice ages, because it stops deep water (and its inhabitants) from freezing solid in subzero air temperatures -- as the ice gets thicker it becomes a better insulator so the rate of freezing underneath drops.

 

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1736

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Just to add to the suggestions.

 

If you have a shower drain pump it's worth giving it a quick run to expel any remaining water from within it. It likely wont freeze where it is but  few seconds blast will do no harm.

 

Ditto on the loo as well if you have a cassette loo with an electric flush. Isolate it and give it a quick blast to expel any water.

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4 hours ago, Rick Savery said:

The central heating is diesel fired - someone has told me I should put some anti-freeze in the header tank - now all I have to do is identify the header tank and figure out how much to put in ?

Your diesel fired central heating should have antifreeze in it all year round anyway as it has an inhibitor to protect it against corrosion. 

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42 minutes ago, Bod said:

Complete water drain down, main tank, all pipework, leaving taps open.

We are lucky the builder put the water drain pipe direct to the bilge pump, open drain tap, let it do it's thing, followed by blowing down the shower pipe(Clears the lower pipe work) Flushes out the bilge pump as well!

Radiators, get an anti-freeze tester,( from any car shop), check the radiator water, as well as the engine coolant, if either are below 30% mix, then either top  up the antifreeze level whilst the pumps/engine is running, to ensure proper mixing. (You may have to remove a bucket full first.) OR drain down either or both systems.  Both systems will be damaged expensively by freezing.

Our boat is at Crick, having seen the ice thick enough to walk on, then a few hours work to get several months peace of mind is worth it.

 

Bod

Engine is coming out in the next few weeks so no problem there I think. Not sure how to check the radiator water - this header tank that I've mentioned before but have yet to find?

The boat is not that far from Crick so slightly worrying - but, not planning to leave it for months unvisited, hopefully this will make a difference

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2 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Your diesel fired central heating should have antifreeze in it all year round anyway as it has an inhibitor to protect it against corrosion. 

Good to know, thanks.

 

6 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Just to add to the suggestions.

 

If you have a shower drain pump it's worth giving it a quick run to expel any remaining water from within it. It likely wont freeze where it is but  few seconds blast will do no harm.

 

Ditto on the loo as well if you have a cassette loo with an electric flush. Isolate it and give it a quick blast to expel any water.

Shower is broken at the mixer (one of the (little) jobs to do) so that shouldn't be a problem. No loo at the moment - use marina when I come up - not the actual marina you undertsand ?

 

I will have to find the tank stop cock I think

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Just a little modification to Alan's procedure: upon reversing the process, turn on the pump, then close all the taps when water starts to come out of them. If you close the taps and then turn on the pump, you will get lots of spray when you open a tap.

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