Diesel stove installation

[booke23]

On a previous discussion on this topic, it was suggested that a large day tank could be installed on the swim at the rear of the boat. 

 

You could probably have a tank big enough to meet minimum delivery requirements for cheap Kero. 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, booke23 said:

On a previous discussion on this topic, it was suggested that a large day tank could be installed on the swim at the rear of the boat. 

 

You could probably have a tank big enough to meet minimum delivery requirements for cheap Kero. 

 

Most fuel delivery companies have a minimum order of 500 litres (that is probably more than the majority of NB's main fuel tanks).

 

Adding another 500kgs onto the swim may (would) result in you needing to considerably alter the boat ballasting arrangements

 

 

https://www.wcfnw.co.uk/faq's/

 

• What is the minimum delivery quantity?

Our minimum delivery quantity is 500 litres.

[Mad Harold]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is a BSS requirement and is basically some scrunched up wire mesh inside the air vent.

from the BSS :

 

Is the fuel tank vent outlet fitted with an effective flame arrester or flame‐arresting gauze? (Required)

Check each vent outlet for the presence of a flame arrester or flame arresting gauze.

Vent outlets must be fitted with either a suitable proprietary flame arrester or gauze of at least 11 wires per linear cm (28 wires per inch) mesh.

Where the flame arrester is not of a suitable proprietary type the openings in the arrester’s body must be at least of the same area as the cross‐sectional area of the vent line.

Flame arresters or gauze must be complete and free of damage or restrictions.

 

Thanks Alan.

Presumably two flame arresters will be needed.

One for the tank vent,and one for the overspill pipe.

On my old boat,the fuel tank (petrol) was in a steel box (about half the size of a gas locker) with a vent to overboard close to the top of the locker,and a drain pipe to overboard at the bottom.

It did pass it's BSS examination like this without having flame arresters fitted so I do agree that standards among BSS examiners vary a little.

In the light of your post,my present boat,although it came with a new BSS certificate,in no way  complies with all the rules governing fuel iinstallations.

I will now do some remedial work on my fuel system.

Again,many thanks.

 

 

[booke23]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Most fuel delivery companies have a minimum order of 500 litres (that is probably more than the majority of NB's main fuel tanks).

 

Adding another 500kgs onto the swim may (would) result in you needing to considerably alter the boat ballasting arrangements

 

 

https://www.wcfnw.co.uk/faq's/

 

• What is the minimum delivery quantity?

Our minimum delivery quantity is 500 litres.

 

Very true.

 

Even if you went with 2 x 250 litre tanks (one on each side) I imagine it would cause issues. However on the previous discussion it was suggested some companies minimum delivery might be 200 litres? That might be a more achievable tank size. 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Very true.

 

Even if you went with 2 x 250 litre tanks (one on each side) I imagine it would cause issues. However on the previous discussion it was suggested some companies minimum delivery might be 200 litres? That might be a more achievable tank size. 

 

Not only 'side to side' ballast but fore & aft as well.

 

Putting an additional 1/2 tonne in the stern will affect the height of the bow.

 

It could also affect the free-board to the jalousies (if it has them) it was the extra weight of overplating and three adults (270Kg ?) that resulted in the sinking of a NB on the Thames.

 

https://www.pla.co.uk/assets/sb1of2012-narrowboatsinking-inadequateventsfreeboard1.pdf

Edited October 10, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[koukouvagia]

22 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Don't forget that any diesel tank must have a 'spill deflector' so that when refilling any spillage must go overboard, and also remember that you will need a breather vent with an anti-spark/flash fitting.

 

Without both of those it is a BSS failure.

 

These restrictions don't apply if the diesel tank is less than 27 litres. (see BSS notes on 2.1.1, 2.3.2, 2.4.2 and 2.4.3).  

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, koukouvagia said:

These restrictions don't apply if the diesel tank is less than 27 litres. (see BSS notes on 2.1.1, 2.3.2, 2.4.2 and 2.4.3).  

 

Thankyou, I am aware of that, but the discussion is about putting in a secondary tank sufficient to accept a delivery of 500 litres.

 

I had already suggested using 25 litre cans and mentioned that the price of said 25 litre can is twice the current price of canal side red diesel.

 

There is no economic argument for installing a separate tank to run a heater on Kerosene.

 

My Eberspacher use 1 litre per hour on 'high' and 0.4 litre per hour on 'low'.

There seems little point in having to find somewhere 'virtually every day' to have to go and buy kero at twice the price of diesel when Red Diesel could just be piped straight from the main tank.

[koukouvagia]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Thankyou, I am aware of that, but the discussion is about putting in a secondary tank sufficient to accept a delivery of 500 litres.

 

I had already suggested using 25 litre cans and mentioned that the price of said 25 litre can is twice the current price of canal side red diesel.

 

There is no economic argument for installing a separate tank to run a heater on Kerosene.

 

My Eberspacher use 1 litre per hour on 'high' and 0.4 litre per hour on 'low'.

There seems little point in having to find somewhere 'virtually every day' to have to go and buy kero at twice the price of diesel when Red Diesel could just be piped straight from the main tank.

On a previous boat I had a small tank which was fed by a semi rotary pump from the main 500l diesel l tank.  I was able therefore to top it up when required.  Because the feeder tank was less than 27 litres I had no trouble with the BSS and the exceptions mentioned above.  

I should have explained this in my previous post.  

[Alan de Enfield]

21 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Run it on Kerosene if it will, cheaper and cleaner

 

On a previous boat I had a small tank which was fed by a semi rotary pump from the main 500l diesel l tank.  I was able therefore to top it up when required.  Because the feeder tank was less than 27 litres I had no trouble with the BSS and the exceptions mentioned above.  

I should have explained this in my previous post.  

 

I know it is labouring the point, but this discussion is as a result of a poster suggesting to the OP that it would be cheaper to change the heater over to Kero 

apparently either unaware of the complexity and cost of installing a second tank, and buying Kero in small quantities, or, just ignoring the problems.

 

Your set up would be ideal if the OP wanted to have a 2nd tank from the main diesel tank.

But I'm not sure of the benefits against just running a pipe from the main tank to the heater unit.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

A comprehensive answer for the  OP as aways Alan.

What exactly is an "anti spark/flash fitting"?

 

 

 

What mine would have failed on last time if the examiner hadn't got one which I bought as the mesh had fallen out of mine sometime over the past 4 years

36 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

On a previous boat I had a small tank which was fed by a semi rotary pump from the main 500l diesel l tank.  I was able therefore to top it up when required.  Because the feeder tank was less than 27 litres I had no trouble with the BSS and the exceptions mentioned above.  

I should have explained this in my previous post.  

That is basically how my diesel stove is fed, but with an electric pump

[ditchcrawler]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

On a previous boat I had a small tank which was fed by a semi rotary pump from the main 500l diesel l tank.  I was able therefore to top it up when required.  Because the feeder tank was less than 27 litres I had no trouble with the BSS and the exceptions mentioned above.  

I should have explained this in my previous post.  

 

I know it is labouring the point, but this discussion is as a result of a poster suggesting to the OP that it would be cheaper to change the heater over to Kero 

apparently either unaware of the complexity and cost of installing a second tank, and buying Kero in small quantities, or, just ignoring the problems.

 

Your set up would be ideal if the OP wanted to have a 2nd tank from the main diesel tank.

But I'm not sure of the benefits against just running a pipe from the main tank to the heater unit.

But conversations on here drift Alan

[Lottiespal]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

On a previous boat I had a small tank which was fed by a semi rotary pump from the main 500l diesel l tank.  I was able therefore to top it up when required.  Because the feeder tank was less than 27 litres I had no trouble with the BSS and the exceptions mentioned above.  

I should have explained this in my previous post.  

 

I know it is labouring the point, but this discussion is as a result of a poster suggesting to the OP that it would be cheaper to change the heater over to Kero 

apparently either unaware of the complexity and cost of installing a second tank, and buying Kero in small quantities, or, just ignoring the problems.

 

Your set up would be ideal if the OP wanted to have a 2nd tank from the main diesel tank.

But I'm not sure of the benefits against just running a pipe from the main tank to the heater unit.

We are looking to have a separate tank to supply the Bubble installed in the front well as we thought that this would be much more straightforward than attempting to feed the fuel pipe all the way from the stern.  

The main purpose of my post was to seek recommendations for an engineer in the area competent to carry out the work on our behalf. Any suggestions gratefully received.  Thank you! ?

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Lottiespal said:

We are looking to have a separate tank to supply the Bubble installed in the front well as we thought that this would be much more straightforward than attempting to feed the fuel pipe all the way from the stern.  

The main purpose of my post was to seek recommendations for an engineer in the area competent to carry out the work on our behalf. Any suggestions gratefully received.  Thank you! ?

Jason Green Braunston

[Lottiespal]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Jason Green Braunston

Sorry Brian, I thought I had already responded to your earlier post about Justin Green at Braunston.  He now works at ABNB and no longer carries out this kind of work, mainly boat surveys and inspections unfortunately for us.   

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

What mine would have failed on last time if the examiner hadn't got one which I bought as the mesh had fallen out of mine sometime over the past 4 years

That is basically how my diesel stove is fed, but with an electric pump

 

Mine too.

 

The switch for the pump is in a row of closely packed identical switches, next to the light switch for the engine area modern rear engined trad). When switching that light on it is amazing how often the light fails to work but the pump activates. ?

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Lottiespal said:

Sorry Brian, I thought I had already responded to your earlier post about Justin Green at Braunston.  He now works at ABNB and no longer carries out this kind of work, mainly boat surveys and inspections unfortunately for us.   

OK, I knew he was at ABNB but didn't know he had stopped doing other work, sorry cant help then. I dont know if this work is carried out by Wharf House in Braunston Marina https://braunstonmarina.co.uk/servicing-repairs/  They also have a Facebook Page showing some of the work they have done, Justin worked closely with them at the lock https://www.facebook.com/Wharf-House-Narrowboats-1579734272261394/

 

[Lottiespal]

Thanks Brian, I didn't realise that Wharf House had moved into the marina, I will give them a try.  Much appreciated.

[Mike Tee]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

Your set up would be ideal if the OP wanted to have a 2nd tank from the main diesel tank.

But I'm not sure of the benefits against just running a pipe from the main tank to the heater unit.

Probably gravity - most diesel stoves at the bow would need a pump when the main tank got lowish. Rotary pump to the 'day' tank for the heater would circumvent this. We had a Bubble stove that required this type of pump - bit of a nuisance as its something else to fail but be hard to trace.

[koukouvagia]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But I'm not sure of the benefits against just running a pipe from the main tank to the heater unit.

 . . . because the feed for the heater is gravity fed.  The diesel can either be pumped up from the main tank to a smallish feed tank, as I outlined, or the OP can construct a new tank at the front of the boat to allow for the required eight inch head of diesel.

[Alan de Enfield]

33 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

Probably gravity - most diesel stoves at the bow would need a pump when the main tank got lowish. Rotary pump to the 'day' tank for the heater would circumvent this. We had a Bubble stove that required this type of pump - bit of a nuisance as its something else to fail but be hard to trace.

 

4 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

 . . . because the feed for the heater is gravity fed.  The diesel can either be pumped up from the main tank to a smallish feed tank, as I outlined, or the OP can construct a new tank at the front of the boat to allow for the required eight inch head of diesel.

 I guess I am spoilt as my Diesel heater (Eberspacher) has a built in pump.

My diesel tank is about 3-4 feet below the heater and it just 'sorts itself out'.

[Mike Tee]

We had a Mikuni ( similar to Eber) and using that as the sole purpose of overnight heating was quite power hungry - if the batteries were not in good shape, it could lead to power failure during the night. The pump feeding the Bubble was some kind of very low powered pulse pump that used very little power. Comfort wise, the Bubble was superb - during the very cold winter of, I think, December 2000 through to the following February, the Bubble was on 24/7 on its lowest setting, and the boat was perfect.