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Liveaboards - which stern, trad, semi or cruiser


Aprilia

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This question/argument comes up regularly, and the result is *always* the same -- trad stern fans say that's the best, cruiser fans say that's the best, and semi-trad fans say that's the best. Different people have different ideas about cratch covers, pram hoods, wide hatches, well deck or tug, and the simple fact is that all three have advantages and disadvantages (which their fans list every time) and you'll never get agreement on which is "best" because there's no such thing...

 

Probably the most important thing is to get a boat that you like overall, regardless of stern type -- I know some people have gone out with a firm idea that they want one type of stern and ended up with another, and been very happy with the result ?

Edited by IanD
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9 minutes ago, IanD said:

This question/argument comes up regularly, and the result is *always* the same -- trad stern fans say that's the best, cruiser fans say that's the best, and semi-trad fans say that's the best. Different people have different ideas about cratch covers, pram hoods, wide hatches, well deck or tug, and the simple fact is that all three have advantages and disadvantages (which their fans list every time) and you'll never get agreement on which is "best" because there's no such thing...

 

Probably the most important thing is to get a boat that you like overall, regardless of stern type -- I know some people have gone out with a firm idea that they want one type of stern and ended up with another, and been very happy with the result ?

I agree with this in the most apart from some of us actualy say what we prefer even if we dont have that kind at present. I always state my preference is cruiser by a country mile but my present boat is a semi trad. What seems daft to me is those that state why their type is best and in reality many of them have only ever owned one type so dont realy have a clue!!

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15 minutes ago, IanD said:

This question/argument comes up regularly, and the result is *always* the same -- trad stern fans say that's the best, cruiser fans say that's the best, and semi-trad fans say that's the best. Different people have different ideas about cratch covers, pram hoods, wide hatches, well deck or tug, and the simple fact is that all three have advantages and disadvantages (which their fans list every time) and you'll never get agreement on which is "best" because there's no such thing...

 

Probably the most important thing is to get a boat that you like overall, regardless of stern type -- I know some people have gone out with a firm idea that they want one type of stern and ended up with another, and been very happy with the result ?

 

I wonder how many on here have actually experienced all stern types?

 

I have, with the exception of the new semi-cruiser stern. My first two experiences were ex-working (camping) boats, followed by several years hiring (mainly cruisers with a couple of semi trads from Teddesley), then 22 years of share boating with semi trads, before finally owning a modern, rear engined trad with an oversized hatch.

 

That said, it is most definately a case of different strokes for different folks. A large group will never be happy with a trad, which is why there are so few hire boats with trad sterns.

 

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On 11/10/2020 at 16:36, cuthound said:

 

I wonder how many on here have actually experienced all stern types?

 

I have, with the exception of the new semi-cruiser stern. My first two experiences were ex-working (camping) boats, followed by several years hiring (mainly cruisers with a couple of semi trads from Teddesley), then 22 years of share boating with semi trads, before finally owning a modern, rear engined trad with an oversized hatch.

 

That said, it is most definately a case of different strokes for different folks. A large group will never be happy with a trad, which is why there are so few hire boats with trad sterns.

 

I have hired cruiser stern, had a share in a semi trad and now own a trad.

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5 hours ago, blackrose said:

This topic has been done to death so many times on this forum but it just keeps coming back around, year after year. I guess narrow boaters love discussing stern types. Perhaps someone should pin a few of these threads up so we don't have to start from scratch every time.

Most topics on CWDF are like this. Occasionally there are new things, like Lithium batteries, or an inland waterways news item, but most things have been done to death multiple times. It is even more so on New to Boating? as newbies don't know that the question they have is a very old question. It's new to them and important. Typically doing a search first doesn't occur. Either cut 'em a little slack, or don't read New to Boating. Sometimes I do one of these, sometimes the other. Today I've looked at the New to Boating? section! ?

Jen

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On 08/10/2020 at 17:51, Aprilia said:

We;ve been looking for many months now & I have convinced myself I DONT want a cruiser since its a lot of 'wasted' space.

But, since the vast majority of boats out there seem to be cruiser stern, am I an idiot ?

Seems to be the 'inside' space on a trad or semi is more useable for the long-term community, but am I missing something?

Cruiser deck looks great with the seating plus G&T pictures, but wouldn't that part of your 60' boat be better utilised in another way, like a couple of foot added to the bathroom, bedroom etc.

I'm thinking if we want to sit out, in the summer months, then we would on the canal side or in the bow but having never had any experience, would welcome the opinion of assembled experts on the subject.

@Aprilia I had the same thought process as you when looking at boats. Trad = more interior space = good for liveaboard. The engine room taking space is one big argument I didn't consider, so do consider that. In the end I went for a longer boat with a cruiser stern, and I'm mostly very pleased with my decision although now I can't cruise the northern canals. The engine is very accessible on my boat, and though rainwater does get into the bilge it's not a problem to pump it overboard. I do think some outside space is great when having friends over, and it can be lonely for the steerer if everyone is sat in the bows, so my vote is cruiser - extra long cruiser, in fact. 

 

Single piece of advice is the same as @mrsmelly - get a full size boat. The extra cost per foot is well worth the interior space IMO - the only reason not to get a full size boat is if you want to do the northern canals or if you're trying to fit into a particular mooring. 

 

On 09/10/2020 at 11:53, Leggers do it lying down said:

I have semi-trad (engine inside) which is ok if your engine is clean and doesn't leak any fuel or oil.If it does,the inside of your boat (and you),will stink of it!.?

Just to throw another hat into the ring,have you considered a "tug" style boat if you want your outside space?,they have a large fore-deck.

 

I absolutely love the look of a tug deck and would be so proud to own one! But I think it isn't really a good practical choice. If I was going to design my dream boat I'd have a reverse layout with a king size bed at the front, and no bow deck, with an extra long cruiser stern. That said if I lived with such a boat for a few months I have no doubt I would swear that my next boat would have bow doors! When you live in a 60' corridor whichever you choose is going to be a compromise. 

 

On 09/10/2020 at 09:29, bill brown said:

If you prefer a cruiser stern you need to decide on rounded vs squared - the latter normally gives you more usable space.

I have rounded. What are the downsides of the squared stern? I should have thought that a square counter makes it quite a bit easier to get cilled. Does it affect the way the boat swims or the wake that it produces at all? Or as long as the counter isn't much submerged it doesn't matter? The extra usable space would only really apply when the boat was stationary I should think, since otherwise occupants would be within the tiller arc. 

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19 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

I have rounded. What are the downsides of the squared stern?

Getting 'off' walls.

A rounded stern allows the bow to move out as the rear 'rolls' around the curvature of the stern without hitting the side.

 

There was a discussion / thread recently that started off being about widebeams but evolved into stern shape (many wide beams try to maximise space, and apparently a new 'square-sterned "Euro" model has been launched with a VERY pronounced square arse.

 

Discussions went on about how difficult it is to move away from the side if your stern is not rounded (unless you can use spring lines and 'spring off'). One poster said he had no problem with his aquare stern and posted pictures to prove it.

 

The pictures showed that the rear corners were quite 'chewed up' and totally devoid of paint (case proven) but he insisted it was no problem - I guess it depends on what you class as a 'problem' or how you like to keep your boat.

 

Having a boat shaped boat with a pronounced 'pointy' bow and a squarish back end I reverse out of my moorings, as the boat 'narrows' we can 'swing the back end out more and more.

In tight moorings we will actually use a ball fender held over the bow, gently 'drive into it', and use that for the bow of the boat to rotate around.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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33 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

 

 

 

 

I absolutely love the look of a tug deck and would be so proud to own one! But I think it isn't really a good practical choice. If I was going to design my dream boat I'd have a reverse layout with a king size bed at the front, and no bow deck, with an extra long cruiser stern. That said if I lived with such a boat for a few months I have no doubt I would swear that my next boat would have bow doors! When you live in a 60' corridor whichever you choose is going to be a compromise. 

 

 

I'd have this too.  It's a shame that so few boats are built like this.  Obviously I'd want some kind of emergency escape hatch at the front bulkhead.

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37 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

I should have thought that a square counter makes it quite a bit easier to get cilled.

A lot of wide locks have a curved cill to exactly take the shape of the stern of the working boats that once used them. Alternatively, the stern of the working boats were shaped to fit the curved cill. I'm not sure which. A squared off stern fatty boat is more likely to get caught by this. Cill markers on the lock side are conservatively placed at the most forwards parts of the curve though.

Jen

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The 'Euro' range of ugly gurt fat-boats.

Apparently the design is taken from the old London 'Night-Soil' (sewage) barges, but with a 'lid' added.

The night soil barges used to collect London's sewage and take it out into the country and sold to farmers for use as fertiliser on the fields growing the crops for consumption by the ever growing city.

 

Re-cycling at its best.

 

 

 

https://www.collingwoodboatbuilders.co.uk/euro-cruiser-range/

 

IMG_3712.jpg

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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17 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I'd have this too.  It's a shame that so few boats are built like this.  Obviously I'd want some kind of emergency escape hatch at the front bulkhead.

I have a reverse layout and wouldn't get rid of my bow doors. In the summer heatwave it was a godsend having bow and rear doors open so air could circulate through the boat. 

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The 'Euro' range of ugly gurt fat-boats.

Apparently the design is taken from the old London 'Night-Soil' (sewage) barges, but with a 'lid' added.

The night soil barges used to collect London's sewage and take it out into the country and sold to farmers for use as fertiliser on the fields growing the crops for consumption by the ever growing city.

 

Re-cycling at its best.

 

image.jpeg.21186c8bbb820b3a60e3e374375fdff7.jpeg

I wonder how many of these Eurocruisers will actually do much cruising? I expect they make stunning floating homes though. 

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Discussions went on about how difficult it is to move away from the side if your stern is not rounded (unless you can use spring lines and 'spring off'). One poster said he had no problem with his aquare stern and posted pictures to prove it.

 

The pictures showed that the rear corners were quite 'chewed up' and totally devoid of paint (case proven) but he insisted it was no problem - I guess it depends on what you class as a 'problem' or how you like to keep your boat.

 

If I'd thought about it, I would have known that AdeE would get excited about the paintwork and I would have posted a different picture.  My paintwork is uniformly bad across the whole boat as a result of family circumstances & Covid and particularly, single-handing, where I choose to let the boat suffer rather than do more work.

There is a slight taper from the end of the cabin to the end of the boat, and the corners are rounded and not as sharp as some I've seen. The tiller arc does not get in the way to a bothersome extent.  There is room to work on the engine on both sides and room for that essential, the Hospital silencer.  I very rarely get rainwater in the bilge but my gutters are bigger than some people's.  In retrospect I would have gone for better shielding around the sides for small children. I see the enthusiam for the rounded stern arising from a sense that, looking at it, it ought to be better for manouvreing. I am happy with my rear end, each to hisher own. I have no interest in selling the idea to others but I do like any discussion to have input from all sides.

IMGP4472.JPG

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