Can anybody help me with what Water pump i need?

[Dolly P.]

I am in the process of converting my boat to a live aboard... She was almost there, but had an old gas heater which warmed up around a mug full of water before going cold again... So in order to install a shower, iv had to get a calorifier, accumulator & connect it all up. I haven't tested it yet with the pump i already have, because i haven't finished setting it all up. But the water from the kitchen sink is a bit dire, so i believe i will need a new one. It is currently fitted with a 'SHURflo Trail King 7' 30psi, 7LPM. And the water from the sink is.... Slow to say the least. Would this pump be powerful enough to pump the water all through the pipes to the calorifier and then back up again? I plan to buy a 5L accumulator to run alongside the pump as i've read they help keep a constant flow. The Calorifier is 40L, so please don't laugh at me if i'm wrong... But if i got a 10lpm pump... does that mean my shower will be 4 minutes long?  

[Tracy D'arth]

Your existing pump should be adequate, 7 litres a minute is a good shower.

 

Is the tank outlet rusted inside and blocked? Is there a filter before the pump that is blocked? See if the delivery next to the pump is OK and if there is a bad kink in a pipe after that.

[Dolly P.]

Thank you so much, I have no clue, ? it didn't even occur to me that there could be a blockage making it worse than it should be. Is there a way of knowing how rusty it could be in the bottom of the tank? I don't believe there is a filter, but I haven't dismantled that end of the system yet, I've been focusing on getting the calorifier in and working my way up from there. I will check that before I run out and get a new pump. ?? Thank you x

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

Thank you so much, I have no clue, ? it didn't even occur to me that there could be a blockage making it worse than it should be. Is there a way of knowing how rusty it could be in the bottom of the tank? I don't believe there is a filter, but I haven't dismantled that end of the system yet, I've been focusing on getting the calorifier in and working my way up from there. I will check that before I run out and get a new pump. ?? Thank you x

There should be a strainer on the inlet to the pump it may be clear plastic with a screw cover 

 

There are some here to give you an idea https://www.asap-supplies.com/fittings-valves-strainers/strainers-spares/water-pump-inlet-strainers

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by ditchcrawler

[Dolly P.]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

There should be a strainer on the inlet to the pump it may be clear plastic with a screw cover 

 

There are some here to give you an idea https://www.asap-supplies.com/fittings-valves-strainers/strainers-spares/water-pump-inlet-strainers

 

Amazing, ill have a look tomorrow and see what i can find, fingers crossed it is just blocked and i don't need a new one. could do without the expense to be honest ?

[Chewbacka]

Time how long it takes to pump say 5l or 10l into a bucket or similar in your sink  - 7l per min is 85  seconds for 10 litres.  If it is significantly slower something is wrong.  If one is about right, then you want a bigger pump.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Chewbacka

[Dolly P.]

1 minute ago, Chewbacka said:

Time how long it takes to pump say 5l or 10l into a bucket or similar in your sink.  If the time is excessive (7l per min is 85  seconds for 10 litres).  If it is significantly slower something is wrong.

Thank you, I was thinking of doing that, but i wasn't sure if my maths was right.... or how accurate that number really is? Like if i was to pump exactly 7l into a bucket, should it take exactly 1minute to do so? or is there a general bit of leeway? 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

The 7l/min is under ideal conditions, so if the outlet from the pump goes straight in to a bucket and there are no restrictions, or crud slowing it down in the pipe from the tank you should get something like that. To the shower, or sinks, then long pipe runs and sharp bends and angles will slow the flow rate down. However, 7l/min should be perfectly adequate for a shower on a boat. Lots have pumps of similar specification. It won't be as prolific as a domestic power shower, if that is what you are used to, but it will do the job.

Jen

[WotEver]

Also be sure to check the galley tap itself. Many taps have a little filter on the spout which can become clogged, consequently slowing the flow considerably. The filter usually simply unscrews out of the tap. It could be that the pump flow is fine and it’s only the tap that’s clogged. 

[Dolly P.]

Hey Pals, so i've finally connected up the calorifier from the water tank - pump - calorifier and then back from the calorifier to the hot tap. I haven't yet connected the calorifier to the engine, that's a job for tomorrow. 

But for some reason, the pressure from the tap now is 100X better than before? I haven't done anything to the pump yet, haven't even moved it to its "forever" destination or fitted an accumulator. I can only assume the calorifier is acting as a sort of accumulator and that's whats upped the pressure? Or i don't know really haha. But i'ma hold off on buying a new pump and accumulator for now and once the shower is installed see what its like? Sound like a plan? i didn't check for blockages as i didn't go near the pump today and figured its best to only destroy one half of the boat at a time while i'm still living on it. 

 

Thank you for all of your help! you've saved me some good Moneys and taught me lots of things. 

Fingers crossed all will be okay once the bathroom and shower is all in   Any recommendations on showers/shower trays/waste water pumps/tanks would be much appreciated!!! 

 

P.s. I'm so so excited to potentially have hot water in the kitchen sink tomorrow is that sad? Its been about a year without.  

[Jen-in-Wellies]

15 hours ago, Dolly P. said:

ny recommendations on showers/shower trays/waste water pumps/tanks would be much appreciated!!! 

Don't know about showers, but for waste water pumps get a Whale Gulper. Never gets blocked with long hair. Almost impossible to kill. Will run dry. Have a switch for it. Turn it on, have a shower, turn it off. Vastly superior to all other common options.

Something that no one has mentioned is an expansion tank for the calorifier. The accumulator you have already is on the cold side and evens out the pump running. Do you have, or are you planning to have a one way valve in the cold watre feed to the cauliflower? If you do, then an expansion tank for the calorifier is a very good idea and greatly reduces the risk of the expensive calorifier failing. Been there, done that!

Jen

Edited October 9, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Jen-in-Wellies]

This is a thread on expansion tanks. There are plenty of others a search wll reveal.

 

[Dolly P.]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

This is a thread on expansion tanks. There are plenty of others a search wll reveal.

 

I hadn't considered it until now, not sure where I would put one, I may have got my levels of importance confused with acculunatir/expansions... I know that one was highly reccomended. Thanks for this! Xx 

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Don't know about showers, but for waste water pumps get a Whale Gulper. Never gets blocked with long hair. Almost impossible to kill. Will run dry. Have a switch for it. Turn it on, have a shower, turn it off. Vastly superior to all other common options.

Something that no one has mentioned is an expansion tank for the calorifier. The accumulator you have already is on the cold side and evens out the pump running. Do you have, or are you planning to have a one way valve in the cold watre feed to the cauliflower? If you do, then an expansion tank for the calorifier is a very good idea and greatly reduces the risk of the expensive calorifier failing. Been there, done that!

Jen

The one I was looking at was this... Because I can get my head round the water going into a box and then being pumped out. 

 

But there are ones which aren't inside a box, and I don't understand how they work...? 

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

The one I was looking at was this... Because I can get my head round the water going into a box and then being pumped out. 

 

Guaranteed to fail as soon as it gets blocked with hair etc.  Which it will, being a shower pump.

 

Fit a Gulper and forget about it for the next 20 years or so ...

 

https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/product.aspx?Category_ID=10021&Product_ID=10037&FriendlyID=Gulper-220

 

Add: and Foxs have them on sale at ninety quid at the moment:

 

https://www.foxschandlery.com/whale-gulper-220-electric-shower-waste-water-pump-bp1552-12v

[noone]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Don't know about showers, but for waste water pumps get a Whale Gulper. Never gets blocked with long hair. Almost impossible to kill. Will run dry. Have a switch for it. Turn it on, have a shower, turn it off. Vastly superior to all other common options.

Something that no one has mentioned is an expansion tank for the calorifier. The accumulator you have already is on the cold side and evens out the pump running. Do you have, or are you planning to have a one way valve in the cold watre feed to the cauliflower? If you do, then an expansion tank for the calorifier is a very good idea and greatly reduces the risk of the expensive calorifier failing. Been there, done that!

Jen

Surely a cauliflower in the system would cause the water to run slower!?..?

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

But there are ones which aren't inside a box, and I don't understand how they work...? 

No No No No No

 

That is the way to fill the bottom of your boat with soapy, dirty water. The second time you have a shower the little box will overflow and fill your bilges.

There is only one way to dispose of 'shower water' and it is not by using one of those.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

43 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

I hadn't considered it until now, not sure where I would put one, I may have got my levels of importance confused with acculunatir/expansions... I know that one was highly reccomended. Thanks for this! Xx 

A good explanation and snazzy diagrams of where accumulators and expansion tanks go and what they do here.

Jen

[noone]

Have you considered fitting a grey water tank and draining or pumping your shower waste into that.You can pump it out from the tank into the hedge,instead of putting your grey water directly into the waterway.I have one fitted and I use it for all of my grey water (sinks/shower/washing machine),pumping it into drains at water points,or the hedges!...The land deals with it far better than the water.

It is still legal to discharge grey water overboard on inland waterways,but that could change.

I will also endorse the whale gulper as a first class pump.

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

36 minutes ago, Leggers do it lying down said:

Surely a cauliflower in the system would cause the water to run slower!?..?

A forum standing joke to substitute cauliflower for calorifier. For some reason most spill chuckers don't accept calorifier as a real word, but are perfectly happy with cauliflower.

Others long running things include the dangerous high energies that can be released by the incautious use of an Ecofan and the almost infinite uses of an infrequent red thermometer.

[David Mack]

18 hours ago, Dolly P. said:

 

But for some reason, the pressure from the tap now is 100X better than before? I haven't done anything to the pump yet, haven't even moved it to its "forever" destination or fitted an accumulator. 

Well that proves that the pump is OK, and that you tank connection and main filter (if you have one) aren't blocked. My guess is that something in the old heater / pipework you have bypassed was the cause of the problem.

[David Mack]

18 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A good explanation and snazzy diagrams of where accumulators and expansion tanks go and what they do here.

Jen

That shows the expansion tank on the inlet to the calorifier. But if your calorifier comes pre fitted with a non return valve on the inlet, as many do, then it is better to fit the expansion tank on the hot water outlet pipe.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Just now, David Mack said:

That shows the expansion tank on the inlet to the calorifier. But if your calorifier comes pre fitted with a non return valve on the inlet, as many do, then it is better to fit the expansion tank on the hot water outlet pipe.

That is so. We don't know what type the OP has. As long as the expansion tank is after the non return valve, then it will do its job either on the cauliflower inlet, or outlet.

[noone]

19 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A forum standing joke to substitute cauliflower for calorifier. For some reason most spill chuckers don't accept calorifier as a real word, but are perfectly happy with cauliflower.

Others long running things include the dangerous high energies that can be released by the incautious use of an Ecofan and the almost infinite uses of an infrequent red thermometer.

So i've just logged into the boating equivalent of Narnia!...?

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, Dolly P. said:

I hadn't considered it until now, not sure where I would put one, I may have got my levels of importance confused with acculunatir/expansions... I know that one was highly reccomended. Thanks for this! Xx 

The one I was looking at was this... Because I can get my head round the water going into a box and then being pumped out. 

 

But there are ones which aren't inside a box, and I don't understand how they work...? 

No No NO a thousand time s NO. They are useless, Satanic design. Seen more flooded boats with these than any other pump.. Whale Gulper is the way to go.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Leggers do it lying down said:

Have you considered fitting a grey water tank

 

We have a grey water (as well as a Black water) tank as it is a legal requirement in some Mediterranean countries.

They actually keep a record of the number of times you 'pump-out' and if it not sufficient  for the number of people on board, and the duration since the last pump-out you get HUGE fines (From memory £1000 for the 1st offence = 10,000TL)

 

Extract from Turkey's rules :

 

Have a Blue Card

Collect all black AND grey water in a holding tank

Have holding tanks pumped out at shore facilities or pump-out boats and pay for this

Get each pump out or container of oil or bilgewater recorded on the Blue Card

Pump no bilgewater into the sea

Edited October 9, 2020 by Alan de Enfield