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billybobbooth

Lister ha2 industrial to marine.

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On 13/10/2020 at 20:04, Steve56 said:

If it has been built as a generator engine it will probably be fixed speed. If this is the case it will need the governor weights and a couple of other parts changing to make it variable speed. Should be quite a simple job if you can get hold of the correct parts.

Right ive looked and its got a variable electric solenoid that then has a pin on the end of the governor, the pin pops out onto a switch this switch makes the solenoid drop the rpm when it pops back in the solenoid speeds the engine up, you can also lock it in full 1500rpm im guessing for starting but as soon as you touch it or move the speed its on a spring load and it automatically runs back on the solenoid, ive now removed all the electrics and will run again, im guessing by the way I saw it work its got fully variable speed but is set to hold at the given rpm for the engine load on the power unit. It can also self start and self stop (although this dosnt work due to the alternator unit being dead) but will manually run.

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13 hours ago, billybobbooth said:

 

I've also going to have to get a diffrent crankcase door as there dosnt seam to be a way to fill the engine with oil, unless you just poor the oil strait in threw the heads?

If by that you mean into the oil fillers on the rocker covers you need another filler why? its the standard way on the vast majority of engines and on a Lister its fine as long as you don't pour so fast t fills the rocker cover up and in some  way manages to enter the breather pipes that are in there. just pour slowly. The oil just runs down through the pushrod housing and through holes in the crankcase into the sump.

  • Greenie 1

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

If by that you mean into the oil fillers on the rocker covers you need another filler why? its the standard way on the vast majority of engines and on a Lister its fine as long as you don't pour so fast t fills the rocker cover up and in some  way manages to enter the breather pipes that are in there. just pour slowly. The oil just runs down through the pushrod housing and through holes in the crankcase into the sump.

Thanks, I wasn't 100% sure as alot of older engine you have to fill the sump direct and on some ha ive seen it had fillers on the head and on the crank case.

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20 minutes ago, billybobbooth said:

Thanks, I wasn't 100% sure as alot of older engine you have to fill the sump direct and on some ha ive seen it had fillers on the head and on the crank case.

That is because the manufacturer thinks that in some applications the top/side fillers may not be easily accessible so they provide both. Think about a generator in an acoustic enclosure. It will probably have an access panel on tech side for changing the oil and fuel filters but the top is likely to be too close to the rocker cover for top filling where a son some boats the side filler might be a pig to get to.

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34 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

That is because the manufacturer thinks that in some applications the top/side fillers may not be easily accessible so they provide both. Think about a generator in an acoustic enclosure. It will probably have an access panel on tech side for changing the oil and fuel filters but the top is likely to be too close to the rocker cover for top filling where a son some boats the side filler might be a pig to get to.

True thanks tony

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Well all electronics removed bodged fuel bottle and line connected bleed and pop fired straight up.

 

Only run for a min but It def had a variable throttle, and will tickover nicely with my finger between the lever and the stop bolt.

 

Its abit smoky but im not sure if its just build up of crud or if the rings leak as ive noticed a fair bit of oil in the exhaust but that's OK as will be rebuilt.

 

I'm guessing the max it will run is 1500rpm rather than 1800rpm as the side has a pin hole and the lever won't go past the pin lining up with the hole. (This is fine as if so not bothered about changing unless easy to do but it also allows me that little extra leway of not putting the engine at full stress)

 

The nice tick over is just under 1/2 the full movement of the lever so guessing tickover is around 500-600rpm??

 

Sorry I've no idea on ha engines as to what does what, but I know there good reliable easy running engines.

Fr2, national, bolinders, jp2 I can get my head around,

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As its on the same engine, anyone know the part number I need for the crankshaft seal flywheel end?

As I'm converting to marine with 2g box I don't need a seal on the other end as this is an open end

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11 minutes ago, OptedOut said:

You could measure up the housing and shaft and bore out for a modern double lip seal.

Seal.jpg

Good shout, I'll be getting a full gasket kit but didn't think it had seals in, I should have thought of that given that's what I did on the national.

 

The ha isn't leaking but if its apart its better to replace

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3 hours ago, billybobbooth said:

As its on the same engine, anyone know the part number I need for the crankshaft seal flywheel end?

As I'm converting to marine with 2g box I don't need a seal on the other end as this is an open end

The Lister HA engine was fitted with a oil retaining ring, pt no 351-11520,and a felt washer, pt no 351-11530. Normally the ring will be fine, and you just replace the felt washer. From memory I think this washer may come in the joint set, but not 100% sure.

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Thanks for above have new seal now.

 

I've stripped a bit more off all timing gears removed, fuel housing and fuel pumps removed, looked at camshaft and looks really good, I've looked at the gears and there is minimal ware on the gears.

 

One thing I did find was the shaft from the governor lever control levers to the fuel pumps  has a slight bend in just at the end of the thread (not sure if this should be there or not but will get a new one)

 

Also found the governor weights had been welded didn't look normal I've got a new set of 1800rpm governor weights. Is there anything I need to change to go from 1500 to 1800 rpm? The governor tensioner spring and adjuster bar look ok again is it worth changing too? Its already got variable throttle rather than fixed.

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This may help. A couple of tables showing governor weights. Note that fixed speed weights are linked by springs. Variable speed weights are not.20201111_032822.jpg.8913e1fceed8f3f74eb21a8a8105a3f9.jpg

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Ooooo that's an interesting list!

 

Given mine over had a fixed 1500 speed but had a variable speed lever on it. Be it was electric controlled. But did have 2 yellow springs on the original weights.

 

I did order some 1800 weights but would pos appear they maybe fixed weights not variable.

 

But from that list it has now confused me as to how the weights work without a spring, oh well,

 

I'll have too try and find a photo of one thats not fixed speed. As the list above also show no speeder adjuster screw and assume the speeder lever only has one hole (not that that should need replacing as looks like the high rpm need it in outer hole.)

 

Looks like I can get the spring

Edited by billybobbooth

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16 minutes ago, Steve56 said:

A little more info on governors which may help.20201111_040057.jpg.7086e3764e1da6282fcbd03d387954c2.jpg20201111_040220.jpg.b1397538692838725cf17d9a1715ecf8.jpg20201111_040138.jpg.7741d839d9c12964c42092b7f1e6a257.jpg

This is what mine is like 2 springs on the governor weights but your first says no governor spring if variable speed.

 

The bit I don't get is the fixed rpm vs variable, I get the weights ov limit the speed by only allowing the fuel arm to go so far and different weights alow different speed but if they have fixed speed surly it would only have a kill switch. Or do variable use 2 controls one for throttle control off the adjuster screw and then the stop lever?

 

Just confused as mine had an electronic controller on what would seem the stop lever.

 

I think the confusion comes in as every pic or info is for fixed speed not variable

Edited by billybobbooth

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Fixed speed engines have the springs to give a much more stable speed and allow generators to maintain the speed within 4% between full and no load. The problem with this set up is getting the steady low idle speed. In fact more often than not the engine will not run at a low speed. That is the reason for fitting the correct weights without springs. This can be seen looking at the speed ranges in the governor weight chart.

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Yes I'm semi with you, as I do have a downloaded manual so with your lists above and this manual (has a close up of the governor weights) its how the speed is controlled and the governor adjusting screw work on variable.

 

Do you set the governor adjusting screw on variable to the desired tick over. Then use the (stop lever in the above pics) to then control the speed?

 

My manual just shows a control lever but dosnt show how its connected

 

I can prob get hold of the correct weights I did find what would now seam like variable weights and the spring I can get.

 

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Its ok I've now found a video showing speed control on a marine engine, its controlled speed wise from the governor adjusting screw,

 

I don't know why but mine would control the speed for the load on the generator, so no load it slowed the engine but put load on it sped it up. So I assumed this was how to control the speed was from this lever! This was wrong. It had fixed speed but just slowed the speed by cutting fuel with no load. I'll now set about making a speed lever off the governor screw but use the correct spring a weights.

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A couple more bits of info. Rod no 32 comes from inside the engine and through a hole in the casing. The rest of the diagram shows the variable speed items.20201111_045313.jpg.c9bde08d227caa0793c26e98b719431c.jpg20201111_045348.jpg.51d2f9adcffa2417387f5020f318bf1b.jpg

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Yes thats the one, on the fixed no 32 just has a nut on the end! On variable it has a joiner then a screw, by looks you set screw to idle speed then if you accelerate it pulls that lever out,

 

I'm guessing if I keep the stop lever you would just push this down to kill the engine.

 

Thank you you diagrams have helped.

I'll build my own version  of a marine lever so it works off the stock governor screw I have.

 

Thank you!!!!!

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By pulling this rod in and out the speed will be altered. The maximum and minimum positions of the rod needs to be locked to give maximum speed and idle speed. It has nothing to do with stopping the engine. The separate stop lever is shown in the diagram in post 39, and is number 35.

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