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Canal & River Trust seeks boaters' views on licence T&Cs


Ray T

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11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Ok.  I thought you were specifically referring to the 70ft length limit for the BCN, and had missed the significance of the extra half inch on the width.

 

 

Having looked through the published dimensions most old working boats will not be allowed on narrow waterways because of the boats width generally being over 7'.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Having looked through the published dimensions most old working boats will not be allowed on narrow waterways because of the boats width generally being over 7'.

 

 

Makes no sense. Our 7’ plus  Grand Union boat boat can go pretty much anywhere. We have never failed to get anywhere we have wanted to since 1987. Including places we couldnt get in 1987, with the same class of boat.

 

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27 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Having looked through the published dimensions most old working boats will not be allowed on narrow waterways because of the boats width generally being over 7'.

 

 

Strange, as BW's legal definition of a Narrowboats is 7' 6"

 

 

 

“master” means the person having for the time being the command, charge or management of a vessel

 

“narrow canal boat” means a vessel having a beam of less than seven feet six inches

 

“night” means the period between sunset and sunrise

 

“owner” includes (a) in relation to any vessel the master or hirer, and

 

 

 

Also, C&RT have a legal obligation (Chapter 3 of Transport Act 1968) to maintain the canals to be usable by boats of the same dimensions as those that used the canals in the nine-months prior to the 8th December 1967

 

There is a table showing the required dimensions for each canal (sample below)

How do these dimensions compare with what C&RT are claiming the canals should be maintained to ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Screenshot (359).png

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2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

It's not just the BCN that's listed on the maximum craft dimensions as 2.13m / 7 ft.

 

Aren't quite a few historic boats built to 7 feet and half an inch?  They won't be allowed to use any of the narrow canals then ...

 

On a related note, short boat Kennet (14'4" beam) will be banned from going from Greenberfield to Leeds (14'1" max on the current dimensions list)

 

@Pluto will not be pleased.  @DRP isn't going to be any happier as he's wider!

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6 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

I've had my rant now.

A rant it may have been but sadly I think its spot on.

 

What we seem to have here is a hammer to crack a nut.

 

I'm reminded of a Mr. Scales, my old head teacher years ago who wacked the back of the hands of a whole class because he couldnt identify who was resonsible for the misdemeanour on the school bus.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

Yet if you are compliant, have a mooring, when you are out boating you are going to be checked to see if you are genuinely cruising?

 

As I said earlier I think it is an attempt to get on top of ghost moorings, which IMO would be a good thing, they merely add to what you were complaining about the minority making things worse for the majority.

 

I suspect the CRT will be pragmatic because of resources and if I am right their aim in bringing this in.   I don't think they are going to worry about a boat which regularly goes to aa favourite pub or happens to cruise a favourite canal for a week or two.   I feel fairly certain it will be the boat which is regularly found in a 5 or 10 mile stretch of canal 200 miles from its home mooring which will come under the spotlight.

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11 minutes ago, Jerra said:

As I said earlier I think it is an attempt to get on top of ghost moorings, which IMO would be a good thing, they merely add to what you were complaining about the minority making things worse for the majority.

 

I suspect the CRT will be pragmatic because of resources and if I am right their aim in bringing this in.   I don't think they are going to worry about a boat which regularly goes to aa favourite pub or happens to cruise a favourite canal for a week or two.   I feel fairly certain it will be the boat which is regularly found in a 5 or 10 mile stretch of canal 200 miles from its home mooring which will come under the spotlight.

Well. As you are so 'certain'.

 

How far between 5 or 10 miles and 200 miles do you think it would be before you come on their radar?

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4 hours ago, StephenA said:

Where is condition B1? The page seems to start at B2

Its B4 B2

35 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Well. As you are so 'certain'.

 

How far between 5 or 10 miles and 200 miles do you think it would be before you come on their radar?

42

miles.

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2 hours ago, wandering snail said:

We are a 70ft boat according to the boat builder but have to licence as a 72ft boat with C&RT because of fenders added. Does this mean we too couldn't do the BCN again if these T&Cs come in??

I always have to lift the rear fenders going up to Brum central, and watch the cill lift them going down.

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35 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Well. As you are so 'certain'.

 

How far between 5 or 10 miles and 200 miles do you think it would be before you come on their radar?

If you have a home mooring, why would you want to spend a couple of months sitting under a tree somewhere else? Generally, you leave your home point and wander around for a while, maybe a weekend, maybe six months, and then go home, rest up, and do it again. That's called cruising. Most home moorers are leisure boaters, so it won't bother them, because we go on our boats to move, not plonk ourselves down. And the same goes for liveaboards, surely. Their home mooring is because it's convenient for work or school or whatever, so you'd only leave it to cruise. I really can't see the problem.

And as Nigel pointed out on many an occasion , if you've got a home mooring you have no legal right to stop anywhere else except by the grace of CRT. The 14 day rule only applies to CCers.

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Some boats overstay on a regular basis and others occupy visitor moorings on a very long term basis .

This  does limit opportunities for others who might want to stay a shorter duration - visitor moorings are almost all  48hrs in my neck of the woods. 

C&RT don't enforce the rules that already have in place .

 

It not surprising that boats from a marina may cruise the same stretch of river every weekend and very possibly use the same visitor moorings very regularly . It would be unreasonable to prohibit that. 

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9 hours ago, Jerra said:

As I said earlier I think it is an attempt to get on top of ghost moorings, which IMO would be a good thing, they merely add to what you were complaining about the minority making things worse for the majority.

 

I suspect the CRT will be pragmatic because of resources and if I am right their aim in bringing this in.   I don't think they are going to worry about a boat which regularly goes to aa favourite pub or happens to cruise a favourite canal for a week or two.   I feel fairly certain it will be the boat which is regularly found in a 5 or 10 mile stretch of canal 200 miles from its home mooring which will come under the spotlight.

So what is the scale of the problem, 20, 200 or 2000 I asked The head of boating this 5 years ago and again a few days ago. unfortunately they don’t know so perhaps they are just trying again to suggest their terms and conditions supersede the relevant acts of parliament. 

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8 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If you have a home mooring, why would you want to spend a couple of months sitting under a tree somewhere else? Generally, you leave your home point and wander around for a while, maybe a weekend, maybe six months, and then go home, rest up, and do it again. That's called cruising. Most home moorers are leisure boaters, so it won't bother them, because we go on our boats to move, not plonk ourselves down. And the same goes for liveaboards, surely. Their home mooring is because it's convenient for work or school or whatever, so you'd only leave it to cruise. I really can't see the problem.

And as Nigel pointed out on many an occasion , if you've got a home mooring you have no legal right to stop anywhere else except by the grace of CRT. The 14 day rule only applies to CCers.

Because if you home mooring is a bit cramped and in an old industrial area with no parking and a few hundred yards away is a much nicer spot with nearby parking where would you rather live?

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Remember an old post of Nigel's where BW claimed that an internal memo  that post dated the 1995 Act superseded it

 

 

It was a Mr Green as witness for BW who, responding to a challenge from a barrister, justified his claim that an internal BW memo superseded an Act of Parliament, by reason of its later date.

It left the barrister nonplussed. All he could come out with once back on his chair, was – “Oh, so BW have declared UDI have they?

 

C&RT is the same people, with the same level of understanding, with the same view of their self-importance just under a different 'label'.

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