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Bingley 5 - worrying YouTube vlog re safety


gbclive

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Just now, Captain Pegg said:

I agree it’s highly unlikely that they did actually stop filming but a GoPro - if that’s what it is - can be controlled remotely from an app so they wouldn’t have had to climb down or leave the tiller.

 

Fair enough.  It still seems odd that during what they considered to be a dangerous incident caused by CRT staff that they claim they decided to stop filming evidence!  Is the next part of the video the lockie telling him to back up to the tailgates do we think?

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Gates leak, and it's just the sort of thing that happens.

 

In this case boat enters the lock - steerer doesn't notice the leak and goes too far forward - wife looks over, panics and tells lock keeper her boat is flooding - lock keeper doesn't see any danger in the situation and makes a couple of off-hand remarks about cratches and drainage holes and gets the paddle raised further to fill the lock quicker - woman calls steerer to alert him so he can pull back. Steerer, who hasn't even been aware of any of this until it is all pretty much over and done with, has argument with lock staff in support of his wife.

 

Where they lose my sympathy is the slagging off of the CRT guy and assistants in the way they do in a public Vlog which they hope to make money from. Claiming experience and competence they clearly don't have doesn't help either.

 

Tam

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It strikes me that since the front well has scuppers in this case, the deck is above canal water level, so the water will drain away. I am aware of boats (our former share boat, for one) which has the deck below water level, and that might be more of a problem.    

11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

>>Is the next part of the video the lockie telling him to back up to the tailgates do we think?<<

 

Yes, we do.

Not a problem I often have, the boat being under 50ft, but faced with a leaky gate I would change my usual practice of resting the button on the top gate. 

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I get the impression that many on here are missing the point and focussing on how much water got into the well deck and what could have been done to prevent it.  The main reason for this couples' complaint is the attitude of the CRT staff.  Now, we have to take their word for it, but their description of the exchanges they had ring completely true to me, and I'm sure many others.

 

Putting speed ahead of safety is completely unnacceptable.

Suggesting "you should get a cratch" is completely unnacceptable.

 

CRT staff and volunteers need to be trained to work properly WITH crews when assisting on locks.  If a crew member is nervous, unhappy or panicking, that is relevant and needs addressing, not dismissing.

 

This forum is quick to pass judgement when a boat sinks in a lock - "they did 'x' wrong", "they should have been more careful" "people don't realise how dangerous locks can be" etc.  Then when someone is exercising caution as they see fit, they're still criticised. 

 

Upon, reaching the bottom lock, the staff/volockies should be talking to the crew and working with them to see a safe and smooth passage.

 

A few years ago I got a full briefing before entering Harecastle Tunnel, a few months ago, I was barely acknowledged when making the same trip, despite someone losing their life in the interim.  I remember a forum member posting on here about another dangerous occurence at Hillmorton.  I'm concerned that CRT's attitude won't change significantly until someone loses their life when under the charge of a lockkeeper.

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33 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I get the impression that many on here are missing the point and focussing on how much water got into the well deck and what could have been done to prevent it.  The main reason for this couples' complaint is the attitude of the CRT staff.  Now, we have to take their word for it, but their description of the exchanges they had ring completely true to me, and I'm sure many others.

 

Putting speed ahead of safety is completely unnacceptable.

Suggesting "you should get a cratch" is completely unnacceptable.

 

CRT staff and volunteers need to be trained to work properly WITH crews when assisting on locks.  If a crew member is nervous, unhappy or panicking, that is relevant and needs addressing, not dismissing.

 

This forum is quick to pass judgement when a boat sinks in a lock - "they did 'x' wrong", "they should have been more careful" "people don't realise how dangerous locks can be" etc.  Then when someone is exercising caution as they see fit, they're still criticised. 

 

Upon, reaching the bottom lock, the staff/volockies should be talking to the crew and working with them to see a safe and smooth passage.

 

A few years ago I got a full briefing before entering Harecastle Tunnel, a few months ago, I was barely acknowledged when making the same trip, despite someone losing their life in the interim.  I remember a forum member posting on here about another dangerous occurence at Hillmorton.  I'm concerned that CRT's attitude won't change significantly until someone loses their life when under the charge of a lockkeeper.

I take your point that they may have a complaint about CRT staff, but please remember the video title is concerning the ‘...most dangerous situation....’ and not the attitude of CRT staff.  So the focus of their complaint seems to be that Lock staff put them into a ‘most dangerous situation’, and that I do not agree with.

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1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

Putting speed ahead of safety is completely unnacceptable.

Suggesting "you should get a cratch" is completely unnacceptable.

 

CRT staff and volunteers need to be trained to work properly WITH crews when assisting on locks.  If a crew member is nervous, unhappy or panicking, that is relevant and needs addressing, not dismissing.

I wasn't there - you weren't there. But I can't believe that if there was any risk of the craft sinking as claimed by the couple the lock keeper would have just carried on. The remarks about cratch covers and drain holes were just throwaway comment, not the major issue the couple make them out to be. I'm sure the comment about getting boats through quickly does not imply that there was no regard to safety either. Maybe the lock keeper could have at least reassured the woman that there was no danger, but it would also mean that he was then sidetracked into dealing with her rather than concentrating on what was happening in the lock. I agree with Chewbacka - the lock staff did not put them into any dangerous situation. To my mind if anyone has to accept blame it would be the steerer for not attending to what he should be doing in a lock.

 

Tam

Edited by Tam & Di
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20 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

I wasn't there - you weren't there. But I can't believe that if there was any risk of the craft sinking as claimed by the couple the lock keeper would have just carried on. I can. The remarks about cratch covers and drain holes were just throwaway comment, not the major issue the couple make them out to be. They were a defensive retort caused by not working with the crew in the first place.  I'm sure the comment about getting boats through quickly does not imply that there was no regard to safety either. It was used to explain why they locks keepers acted as they did.  The implication was clear:  speed > safety.   Maybe the lock keeper could have at least reassured the woman that there was no danger, but it would also mean that he was then sidetracked into dealing with her rather than concentrating on what was happening in the lock. I agree with Chewbacka - the lock staff did not put them into any dangerous situation. You simply don't know this.  To my mind if anyone has to accept blame it would be the steerer for not attending to what he should be doing in a lock. What do you think he should have done?  He was encouraged into a lock.  The gates were closed behind him.  The water was stated to be gushing 15' into the lock.  He probably had around 10' to play with.  I'm genuinely curious about what he could have attended to?

 

Tam

 

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What dangerous situation are you saying the lock keeper put them in? Why do you agree that the boat was in danger of sinking? The steerer could see water spouting from the top gates on his approach to the lock - if he thought it was dangerous he could have refused to enter. He did enter, and there is footage of him chatting to the guy on the other boat with no apparent concern. It was the couple who said the water was gushing 15' into the lock - I don't think anyone actually measured it, but certainly it was gushing sufficiently for it to enter the well-deck of their boat at one point. But was it essentially dangerous? It obviously didn't look so to the lock keeper, unless you are claiming he would happily stand there and allow it to happen.

 

I'd agree with your point "CRT staff and volunteers need to be trained to work properly WITH crews when assisting on locks.  If a crew member is nervous, unhappy or panicking, that is relevant and needs addressing, not dismissing." but that wasn't the headlines on their Vlog. Nor can I see what else the lock keeper could do at the point the woman said her boat was flooding. What would you suggest? Give her a hug and tell her it would all be alright?  ?

 

Tam

Edited by Tam & Di
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Makes you wonder how they would have coped with the early opening of unshuttered gate paddles by over zealous helpers.

 

A common occurrence before the widespread adoption of shuttered gate paddles in the mid 80's, and mainly on locks without lock keepers.

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So I posted on their Facebook page suggesting their action was a bit OTT. He responded by suggesting Bingley should be closed down. After I replied suggesting they may find many of the Northern canals a bit too stressful they removed my posts. The thread is filled with sympathisers and they obviously don't tolerate being challenged. Now he has responded to another snowflake with this tosh,  "as far as I’m concerned gross negligence on behalf of the CRT... that lock is going to kill someone."

 

Experienced boaters??? Wait 'til they get to Wigan Flight. Can't wait for their video when they do the Rochdale, Calder & Huddersfield. 

 

 

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I can't remember which narrow staircase I went through where I waited for the boat in front to clear the middle lock before I filled the top lock as the gates were leaking badly and they would have got a good soaking. I didn't rant on about dangerous locks, I just waited 5 minutes and then got on with boating.

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6 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I can't remember which narrow staircase I went through where I waited for the boat in front to clear the middle lock before I filled the top lock as the gates were leaking badly and they would have got a good soaking. I didn't rant on about dangerous locks, I just waited 5 minutes and then got on with boating.

That use to be the case on the Watford flight, the lock keepers would hold a full length boat by a lock going up because they couldnt get out of the jets

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31 minutes ago, Midnight said:

So I posted on their Facebook page suggesting their action was a bit OTT. He responded by suggesting Bingley should be closed down. After I replied suggesting they may find many of the Northern canals a bit too stressful they removed my posts. The thread is filled with sympathisers and they obviously don't tolerate being challenged. Now he has responded to another snowflake with this tosh,  "as far as I’m concerned gross negligence on behalf of the CRT... that lock is going to kill someone."

 

Experienced boaters??? Wait 'til they get to Wigan Flight. Can't wait for their video when they do the Rochdale, Calder & Huddersfield. 

 

 

My comments (which were similar in nature) were removed from their You Tube channel.

 

He's/she's obviously set a course in his/er head and now clearly cannot see the potential that all this is just a storm in a teacup.

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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57 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That use to be the case on the Watford flight, the lock keepers would hold a full length boat by a lock going up because they couldnt get out of the jets

That might have been where it was.

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The best bit of this rant is the lovely church bell at Kildwick. Someone warned us not to moor there because of the noise keeping them awake, another example of useless disinformation one receives or sees on the cut or Intercut. As they say 'Your mileage may vary', so I guess the same as one's perception of any situation. In Jo and Michael's case they were clearly so concerned they made an official complaint. Most wouldn't. Having seen work scheduled for the winter, we didn't raise any concern with them despite a boat we shared with had a half filled engine room. We also saw hire boat so low at the stern the canal was nearly over its skin fittings. They were on the way to Skipton oblivious to the amount of water they were carrying in their engine room .

 

Jo was very complimentary about Claire the lock-keeper down on the three rise, who we also found very helpful when we went down and back up this summer. She works under difficult circumstances and often doesn't have extra help, which makes managing the both sets of locks event more challenging. Broken paddle gear and the amount of water is a problem but creating confrontation with a volunteer lockie is only going to leave a bad taste, which clearly affected this couple. Maybe neither party handled it well. If their complaint to CaRT results in improved safety and more enjoyable passage, then some good has come of their experience.

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2 hours ago, Midnight said:

So I posted on their Facebook page suggesting their action was a bit OTT. He responded by suggesting Bingley should be closed down. After I replied suggesting they may find many of the Northern canals a bit too stressful they removed my posts.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, The Happy Nomad said:

My comments (which were similar in nature) were removed from their You Tube channel.

 

 

 

This is the biggest annoyance with some of these Youtubers. Deleting comments on Facebook/Youtube that doesn't fit their narrative, creates a false reality. Casual viewers watching the video and reading the comments will think they must be correct as no one has disagreed.  

 

"Who controls the past controls the future"   

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

 

This is the biggest annoyance with some of these Youtubers. Deleting comments on Facebook/Youtube that doesn't fit their narrative, creates a false reality. Casual viewers watching the video and reading the comments will think they must be correct as no one has disagreed.  

 

"Who controls the past controls the future"   

 

 

 

I posted, without comment,  a link to this thread.  It is still there on YouTube. 

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11 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I posted, without comment,  a link to this thread.  It is still there on YouTube. 

How log ago?

 

I can't see a link. Unless I need to go to specsavers.

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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3 hours ago, Rob-M said:

I can't remember which narrow staircase I went through where I waited for the boat in front to clear the middle lock before I filled the top lock as the gates were leaking badly and they would have got a good soaking. I didn't rant on about dangerous locks, I just waited 5 minutes and then got on with boating.

Probably this one...

Not an awful lot of water, but would soon fill a back cabin if you were stuck behind a slow boat!!

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I posted, without comment,  a link to this thread.  It is still there on YouTube. 

 

Yes, because it's not actually a negative comment. A very small percentage of people who read that comment will click the link.......and probably an even smaller percentage of those that do will bother to read the whole of this thread. The Youtubers know this and leave it up. It's actually in their interests to get as many comments as possible on a video, as it makes it more likely to be featured highly in youtube searches etc. This is way you often hear them say in videos 'What is this building/bridge/feature? comment down below'.  

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On 03/10/2020 at 13:16, booke23 said:

 

 

This is the biggest annoyance with some of these Youtubers. Deleting comments on Facebook/Youtube that doesn't fit their narrative, creates a false reality. Casual viewers watching the video and reading the comments will think they must be correct as no one has disagreed.  

 

"Who controls the past controls the future"   

 

 

 

 All the comments seam to be supportive of them, so they have obviously removed any negative comments. I have also noticed on their Instagram they have not posted any photos since they put the video on Youtube. The last was Bingley 3 Rise Locks. They were putting on 3-4 a day, all very “look I’m entering a lock, look I’m leaving a lock, look I’m on a canal” Boooring. 

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