Bingley 5 - worrying YouTube vlog re safety

[cuthound]

On 29/11/2020 at 15:34, LadyG said:

Omg, three years  at 365 days per year, and they are 'inexperienced', I can't believe the nutters on here.

 

I've been canalling for 47 years years now and I am still learning.

 

I have been over almost all of the connected system at least once, but still would not consider myself "experienced", except for the few parts of the system close to where I have moored for a year or more.

 

Experience is built up by doing the same thing many times over, and whilst some experience is transferable, some locks (like the Bingley 3 and 5 rises) are unique and true experience of them is acquired by doing those locks many times.

Edited December 2, 2020 by cuthound
To remove a letter masquerading as a space

[haggis]

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I've been canalling for 47 years years now and I am still learning.

 

I have been over almost all of the connected system at least once, but still would not consider myself "experienced", except for the few parts of the system close to where I have moored for a year or more.

 

Experience is built up by doing the same thing many times over, and whilst some experience is transferable, some locks (like the Bingley 3 and 5 rises) are unique and true experience of them is acquired by doing those locks many times.

Head against brick wall methinks ? 

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, haggis said:

Head against brick wall methinks ? 

Repeatedly.

 

Maybe this is more apt ?

 

 

 

 

[Mike Todd]

25 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I've been canalling for 47 years years now and I am still learning.

 

I have been over almost all of the connected system at least once, but still would not consider myself "experienced", except for the few parts of the system close to where I have moored for a year or more.

 

Experience is built up by doing the same thing many times over, and whilst some experience is transferable, some locks (like the Bingley 3 and 5 rises) are unique and true experience of them is acquired by doing those locks many times.

Whenever I am asked by an onlooker to explain lock operation, I generally include the comment that although they all work on the same principle, there are wide variations in detail. So much that it is not much of an exaggeration to say that they are all different. Even those in a flight often vary because of different depths. Even the 'newer' ones, such as Hatton, still need care not to make too many assumptions, as even the size and shape of the intermediate pound can make a lot of difference - see Knowle. 

 

As a result I often say that one should never take anything for granted however long one has been boating (since 1967 in our case!) Not just locks, either.

[ditchcrawler]

7 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I've been canalling for 47 years years now and I am still learning.

 

I have been over almost all of the connected system at least once, but still would not consider myself "experienced", except for the few parts of the system close to where I have moored for a year or more.

 

Experience is built up by doing the same thing many times over, and whilst some experience is transferable, some locks (like the Bingley 3 and 5 rises) are unique and true experience of them is acquired by doing those locks many times.

I was lucky enough to know Fred Heritage who spent all his working life and then retirement on the water, for several years he had a full length ex working boat which displayed a L plate, as he said you are always learning.

 

44 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Whenever I am asked by an onlooker to explain lock operation, I generally include the comment that although they all work on the same principle, there are wide variations in detail. So much that it is not much of an exaggeration to say that they are all different. Even those in a flight often vary because of different depths. Even the 'newer' ones, such as Hatton, still need care not to make too many assumptions, as even the size and shape of the intermediate pound can make a lot of difference - see Knowle. 

 

As a result I often say that one should never take anything for granted however long one has been boating (since 1967 in our case!) Not just locks, either.

I find the ones between  Barbridge and Chester to be the biggest mix of the way they behave on one length of navigation.

[Tam & Di]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

I have been over almost all of the connected system at least once, but still would not consider myself "experienced" ..................  Experience is built up by doing the same thing many times over, and whilst some experience is transferable, some locks (like the Bingley 3 and 5 rises) are unique and true experience of them is acquired by doing those locks many times.

I don't think I can completely agree with that. I've seen people going up and down a short section of canal dozens of times while still looking rather inept, just as on the road you get good drivers and bad drivers and the correlation between their ability and the length of time they've been driving doesn't hold up.

 

There is a slight subtle difference between experience and expertise, where expertise is using ones experience to good advantage even when faced with a different situation. In a canal scenario that means that when first going through a strange lock you are fully aware of all the processes involved in transfer of water for filling/emptying it, how and when the gates (of whatever pattern they may be) should open/close, and how the boat and crew should be kept safe during the process. You would also be aware of when things are not going as they should and what best to do to rectify the situation.

 

Too many people learn to do their canal boating in a haphazard way, and never realise there might be an alternative to their method. All too often they get away with doing silly things until the day comes when something goes wrong - and even then they are just as likely to try to find blame elsewhere rather than learning from the situation. I might even suggest that the conflict between making a video and safe working of locks comes into that category.

 

Tam

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

 

  I might even suggest that the conflict between making a video and safe working of locks comes into that category.

 

Tam

I couldn't agree more,  That and chatting with the passers by and taking photos

[Hudds Lad]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

Experience is built up by doing the same thing many times over

i've been up and down our stairs thousands of times over the years, still slipped down the last few carrying a basket of laundry the other day though  

familiar things can still bite you in the ass, or hit in this case  

[Tam & Di]

31 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I couldn't agree more,  That and chatting with the passers by and taking photos

and I wasn't pointing at any one person/couple of course - it can happen to any of us when we let our attention wander from the job in hand

 

Tam

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I couldn't agree more,  That and chatting with the passers by and taking photos

Not necessarily. Sometimes explaining things to onlookers concentrates attention on what is happening rather than drifting off. In any case, I firmly believe that keeping interested non-boaters informed is an important part of ensuring that public opinion supports their continued existence. Without boaters taking photos, some of the interesting threads on there at the moment would not have been interesting. Archive material is always 'a good thing' to aid the collective memory.

 

Or even help with one's own. Only a fe years ago we went up to Sheffield and were sure that the number of cooling towers still standing at a redundant power station was more than we counted on the way back. After checking our photos later did we realise that our memory was ot quite a faulty as we imagined - in the intervening period., several had been blown up!

[Scholar Gypsy]

On 02/12/2020 at 15:53, Mike Todd said:

Not necessarily. Sometimes explaining things to onlookers concentrates attention on what is happening rather than drifting off. In any case, I firmly believe that keeping interested non-boaters informed is an important part of ensuring that public opinion supports their continued existence. Without boaters taking photos, some of the interesting threads on there at the moment would not have been interesting. Archive material is always 'a good thing' to aid the collective memory.

 

Good point. I would always explain that I am happy to talk, but I won't be looking at them, and why - ie it's nothing personal!

[Pluto]

On 02/12/2020 at 13:22, ditchcrawler said:

I couldn't agree more,  That and chatting with the passers by and taking photos

I occasionally worked through locks with Charlie Atkins, and there was no-one better than him at chatting to people. However, he always did it in a position where he could see what was happening to the boat in the lock. However, to the casual observer, he would just have look like he was chatting. It is possible to do both safely, but it requires a certain amount of concentration on the job in hand.

[Tam & Di]

It also needs complete mastery of what is involved with passage of a lock, and ability to see immediately if anything is about to go wrong and correct it before it becomes an issue.

 

Tam

[PD1964]

On 02/12/2020 at 13:53, Tam & Di said:

and I wasn't pointing at any one person/couple of course - it can happen to any of us when we let our attention wander from the job in hand

 

Tam

 Speaking of hands, just seen the Vloggers photos of themselves on Instagram of them on the Rochdale Canal and a lot have him looking at his phone in hand. Most of their photos are pretty boring too “look I’m entering a lock” “look I’m in a lock” “look I’m leaving a lock” can’t see why he needs his phone so much.

https://instagram.com/nbminimallist?igshid=15ro8i3j4qzzk

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by PD1964

[ditchcrawler]

And they think they had problems on the 5 Rise 

 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

And they think they had problems on the 5 Rise 

 

 

Ah, so that's why it's called a balance beam? ???

[Trevor Lyons]

On 28/11/2020 at 09:03, Alan de Enfield said:

 

"Scupper valves" : Loads of different types and designs...

 

 

I eventually bought some of these "Nuova Rade" scupper valves, @ £19  a pair .They require a hole in the hull of 55mm (2.1") diameter and are impressively robust. They will be fitted at the bottom aft corner of the well deck, about 6" above the waterline. Thanks for your advice.

[ditchcrawler]

On 27/09/2020 at 21:30, gbclive said:

This vlog which was posted today, increased my appreciation of how quickly things can go wrong, and the dilemma that can exist if lock keepers take control but fail to communicate or act in a safe way. 

 

 

 

Its not only Bingley that can be a danger, this was Bunbary staircase    FreeSpirit : OMG... water poured over the hire boat bow. (nbfreespirit.blogspot.com)

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its not only Bingley that can be a danger, this was Bunbary staircase    FreeSpirit : OMG... water poured over the hire boat bow. (nbfreespirit.blogspot.com)

This is what we get when inexperienced boaters meet those who create sensationalised blogs. Yes both Bingley & Bunbury have leaks through the gates. We went through Bunbury both ways in September and Midnight is 57ft. I don't remember needing to get so close to the leak that water flooded over the bows. Not pleasant I agree not unexpected with the standard of C&RT maintenance. Bunbury is not even listed for scheduled maintenance in the winter stoppages list. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Midnight

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, Midnight said:

This is what we get when inexperienced boaters create sensationalised blogs. Yes both Bingley & Bunbury have leaks through the gates. We went through Bunbury both ways in September and Midnight is 57ft. I don't remember needing to get so close to the leak that water flooded over the bows. Not pleasant I agree not unexpected with the standard of C&RT maintenance. Bunbury is not even listed for scheduled maintenance in the winter stoppages list. 

 

They'd probably think the Great Flood had come going up the Rochdale Nine the...

[Higgs]

But being informed that you need a cratch cover, to compensate for the poor state of CRT equipment, isn't a reasonable response, on being alerted to the fact that a boat is being flooded with water. 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Higgs

[Arthur Marshall]

If I remember correctly, both Bunbury and the Caldon staircases have top locks larger than the lower ones. Whether that's got owt to do with it I have no idea. But this does seem to me to be yet another very good reason to relegate "riding the gate" to the dustbin where it belongs.

[GUMPY]

21 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

They'd probably think the Great Flood had come going up the Rochdale Nine the...

Insignificant water over the gates 

The Nene in normal times.

 

And with a bit of fresh on.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

This is what we get when inexperienced boaters meet those who create sensationalised blogs. Yes both Bingley & Bunbury have leaks through the gates. We went through Bunbury both ways in September and Midnight is 57ft. I don't remember needing to get so close to the leak that water flooded over the bows. Not pleasant I agree not unexpected with the standard of C&RT maintenance. Bunbury is not even listed for scheduled maintenance in the winter stoppages list. 

In this case it was an experienced boater reporting what happened and why to an inexperienced hire boater who also probably saved a sinking. Not sure how long the boat was. I don't think the hire boater needed to be that close, but he was.

Edited October 24, 2021 by ditchcrawler

[David Mack]

52 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

They'd probably think the Great Flood had come going up the Rochdale Nine the...

Not just over the gates...

Rochdale Lock 74.

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by David Mack