Washing machine not working on generator

[Higgs]

15 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Ditto. I even have a little battery powered toy one, which saves lugging the beast around. 

 

I've got a Scopex 14D-10. It's a bit pedestrian at 10Mhz. It might not even be able to pick up the fault. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Higgs

[WotEver]

If it still works don’t knock it   

 

It’d see the fault no problem - it’s more likely to be a very bent waveform than loads of HF harmonics. 

[Higgs]

3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

If it still works don’t knock it   

 

It’d see the fault no problem - it’s more likely to be a very bent waveform than loads of HF harmonics. 

 

Now, don't start swearing. ? You've got the job. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Higgs

[GUMPY]

One question is Neutral bonded to Earth in the generator? I have seen other things fail to work due to voltage between N and E which is detected  by the electronics of the unit. Normally the unit wont power up but.................

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, Loddon said:

One question is Neutral bonded to Earth in the generator? I have seen other things fail to work due to voltage between N and E which is detected  by the electronics of the unit. Normally the unit wont power up but.................

Worth checking for sure

[Steve stav]

4 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

So far, the only fly in the ointment is your generator. It would be interesting to see if an isolation transformer could clean up its output. Have any of the engineers had an oscilloscope to see the generator's wave pattern? 

 

 

 

 

Yes its the spanner in the works for my machine but my genny runs my nieghbours machine with no issues.

 

i have put a galvanic isolator in line bit no faults and still not working 

4 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Lateral thought, have you asked Honda? As it seems to be the generator causing the problem its got to be either waveform, or voltage out of kilter either way.

 

Perhaps Japanese generators don't like Italian washers.

Yes spoke to them but they cannot see an issue as the genny teats fine.

 

my thoughts is its the machine but a fault as such but it just doesnt like gennys 

[Steve stav]

18 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

So far, the only fly in the ointment is your generator. It would be interesting to see if an isolation transformer could clean up its output. Have any of the engineers had an oscilloscope to see the generator's wave pattern? 

 

 

 

 

its a good call and i have a friend who does have one and planning for him to come over. however i have just tried a brand new out of the box Hyundai 3.2 KVA on the machine direct and still no joy. proper stumped by this. it seems i may have to buy a cheap £200 noisy genny to do the job 

[Higgs]

1 hour ago, Steve stav said:

its a good call and i have a friend who does have one and planning for him to come over. however i have just tried a brand new out of the box Hyundai 3.2 KVA on the machine direct and still no joy. proper stumped by this. it seems i may have to buy a cheap £200 noisy genny to do the job 

 

Well, you've had two of that type of washing machine connected to the system, it is looking less likely to be the washing machine. Have you tried the washing machine plugged directly into the generator, by bypassing the boat's electrical system altogether; using an extension cable. ?? As a test only.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Higgs

[Steve stav]

3 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Well, you've had two of that type of washing machine connected to the system, it is looking less likely to be the washing machine. Have you tried the washing machine plugged directly into the generator, by bypassing the boat's electrical system altogether; using an extension cable. ?? As a test only.

 

 

yes and still no joy. 

 

[Higgs]

46 minutes ago, Steve stav said:

yes and still no joy. 

 

 

Would you normally plug the genny into the shoreline connector and isolate the inverter?

 

 

[GUMPY]

Have you checked that neutral and earth are bonded in the generator?  Honda and many other gensets are not bonded as standard.

As I said earlier I have seen this cause problems with electronics and cause equipment not to run.

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Loddon

[Higgs]

12 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Have you checked that neutral and earth are bonded in the generator?  Honda and many other gensets are not bonded as standard.

As I said earlier I have seen this cause problems with electronics and cause equipment not to run.

 

 

If he uses the shoreline plug-in, wouldn't he have a bond via the galvanic isolator? Although, the equipment I have installed and intend to install (battery charger and an inverter) each have their own earth bond to hull - connected at the galvanic isolator. 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Higgs

[pearley]

1 hour ago, Higgs said:

 

Well, you've had two of that type of washing machine connected to the system, it is looking less likely to be the washing machine. Have you tried the washing machine plugged directly into the generator, by bypassing the boat's electrical system altogether; using an extension cable. ?? As a test only.

 

 

Not necessarily.

We originally had a Zanussi ZWC 1300 which worked perfectly off both Victron Multiplus and built-in generator. When that failed 5 years ago it was replaced by ZWC 1301. Worked fine on generator,  refused to work from inverter. That machine failed a year ago and, as we had an extended warranty, was replaced by a new machine, still ZWC 1301. This machine works fine from both inverter and generator.

So there can be differences between otherwise identical machines.

[Higgs]

5 minutes ago, pearley said:

Not necessarily.

We originally had a Zanussi ZWC 1300 which worked perfectly off both Victron Multiplus and built-in generator. When that failed 5 years ago it was replaced by ZWC 1301. Worked fine on generator,  refused to work from inverter. That machine failed a year ago and, as we had an extended warranty, was replaced by a new machine, still ZWC 1301. This machine works fine from both inverter and generator.

So there can be differences between otherwise identical machines.

 

The OP has had a 100% fail rate with the washing machine type in question, tried two, you have had better luck at least, with only a 50% fail rate. 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Higgs

[GUMPY]

13 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

If he uses the shoreline plug-in, wouldn't he have a bond via the galvanic isolator? Although, the equipment I have installed and intend to install (battery charger and an inverter) each have their own earth bond to hull - connected at the galvanic isolator. 

 

 

 

 

Its not a bond on the boat to ground  its a bond in the supply between N & E. If you bond N&E on the boat it will cause the supply RCD  to trip.

The only exception to this is the output of an IT which does bond N&E as it effectively creates a new supply.

 

It takes seconds to test NE bonding with a multimeter

L>N 230v

L>E 230v

N>E 0v

Or use one of the plug in testers.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Loddon

[Tracy D'arth]

Have you grounded the generator frame earth connection with an earth ground spike?  If there is no frame ground on the generator, the neutral can float up and cause problems with electronics.

[jonathanA]

On 28/09/2020 at 11:26, Higgs said:

ive tested the inverter and the genny power and they both match perfectly but the really odd thing is that it will work on the inverter but the batteries cant cope with it and when i try to charge at the same time to allow the batteries to do the job but the machine cuts off as soon as the genny kicks in.

That doesn't seem right to me. Is the inverter one of those clever ones that passes mains through if a landline or genny is supplying power ? 

 

Otherwise I don't see how charging the batteries from your genny can affect the washing machine.

 

 

[Higgs]

10 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

That doesn't seem right to me. Is the inverter one of those clever ones that passes mains through if a landline or genny is supplying power ? 

 

Otherwise I don't see how charging the batteries from your genny can affect the washing machine.

 

 

 

You have somehow managed to attach to me, something the OP said. 

 

?

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Higgs

[jonathanA]

Bet I couldn't do that again if I tried ...the Joy's of android phones.... 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Higgs said:

That doesn't seem right to me. Is the inverter one of those clever ones that passes mains through if a landline or genny is supplying power ? 

 

Otherwise I don't see how charging the batteries from your genny can affect the washing machine

 

17 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

That doesn't seem right to me. Is the inverter one of those clever ones that passes mains through if a landline or genny is supplying power ? 

 

Otherwise I don't see how charging the batteries from your genny can affect the washing machine.

 

 

 

 

Its quite easy, now both Higgs and JohnathanA have said the same.

Simply press 'quote' and if someone else had said it it transfers it to the 'new name'

[jonathanA]

Thanks Alan

 

Every day is a school day ...

[GUMPY]

Any news on what the solution was?

[GUMPY]

Has the OP managed to sort the problem or at least find the cause?

 

I suspect we will never find out as they haven't been here since September

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Loddon

[Steve stav]

Hi All.

 

so very strange thing happened the other day in that i thought i would give it another go and try starting the wash on the inverter and then plugging in the genny so that it can charge the batteries at the same time ( i have done this maybe 15 times before but every time i put the genny in the loop the circuit cuts and the machine door lock lights go out and it stops)

 

well this time it worked ( using a new Hyundai genny ) so i thought id try it on the honda as well and yep it works too.

 

so essentially i have a work around but its nothing that i havent tried before.

 

so still a mystery but a good one now rather than a frustrating one.

 

thanks for all your advice and help along this very odd journey

 

steve 

[Mike Tee]

They don't call it electrickery for nothing