Interpreting the Law

[Jerra]

52 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

 I see no reports of anyone having Covid a second time,

There has been at least one documented case in Hong Kong

[john6767]

7 hours ago, Bod said:

 

Does anyone have a link, that will take me to the number of Covid tests done on a daily basis.

We hear of the number of positive tests, but never of the total or negative tests carried out.

To my mind, the really important information is never given, "What is the percentage of positive returns against the total number of tests carried out."

It is the rise or fall of this percentage figure that will show what is happening.

 

Bod.

You can download a cvs file of all the data and then produce your own graphs cutting it how you want to see it.

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/about-data

Edited September 29, 2020 by john6767

[Tam & Di]

46 minutes ago, Jerra said:

There has been at least one documented case in Hong Kong

We wear masks in general company to avoid conflict, but with one case in x-hundred thousand I am happy to take my chances most of the time. I still reckon it is a far more useful bit of knowledge than just knowing those who currenty have it (or not yet had it) and don't know why there is not more made of it.

 

Tam

[Ironmaiden]

Getting back to the topic of wearing masks, I would like to see studies Don in the community about people wearing homemade cloth masks.. 

I believe that by wearing a cloth mask you are in fact wearing a petri dish of infection, a cloth mask is a excellent moist medium for growing covid.. 

There are many studies showing this to be the case, or simply ask yourself the question, "why do theatre staff over the past75 years not just wear cloth masks instead of single use disposable" 

I have been in theatre and witnessed masks being changed by staff several times in lengthy procedures. 

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, Ironmaiden said:

Getting back to the topic of wearing masks, I would like to see studies Don in the community about people wearing homemade cloth masks.. 

I believe that by wearing a cloth mask you are in fact wearing a petri dish of infection, a cloth mask is a excellent moist medium for growing covid.. 

There are many studies showing this to be the case, or simply ask yourself the question, "why do theatre staff over the past 75 years not just wear cloth masks instead of single use disposable" 

I have been in theatre and witnessed masks being changed by staff several times in lengthy procedures. 

Do people who wear homemade masks not change them and wash them frequently making them in effect a new mask each time?

 

Equally why does the government say anyface covering will do, as I am sure the few I have seen with scarves etc do not make any attempt at cleaning them after each use.

[tree monkey]

13 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

We wear masks in general company to avoid conflict, but with one case in x-hundred thousand I am happy to take my chances most of the time. I still reckon it is a far more useful bit of knowledge than just knowing those who currenty have it (or not yet had it) and don't know why there is not more made of it.

 

Tam

The problem is we don't really know how likely re infections are, a quick search found,

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

 

I'm not suggesting your approach is wrong at all, it's just worth knowing what we don't know if you get my meaning 

an interesting bit of that article was the mention that they were infected the second time by a genetically different version 

2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Do people who wear homemade masks not change them and wash them frequently making them in effect a new mask each time?

 

Equally why does the government say anyface covering will do, as I am sure the few I have seen with scarves etc do not make any attempt at cleaning them after each use.

I have two cloth reusable ones and simply wash them as and when, it's fairly simple process 

[Jerra]

2 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

The problem is we don't really know how likely re infections are, a quick search found,

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

 

I'm not suggesting your approach is wrong at all, it's just worth knowing what we don't know if you get my meaning 

an interesting bit of that article was the mention that they were infected the second time by a genetically different version 

I have two cloth reusable ones and simply wash them as and when, it's fairly simple process 

I thought that was what all wearers of cloth masks did.

[Ironmaiden]

10 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Do people who wear homemade masks not change them and wash them frequently making them in effect a new mask each time?

 

Equally why does the government say anyface covering will do, as I am sure the few I have seen with scarves etc do not make any attempt at cleaning them after each use.

Simply... No people do not wash them regularly. With regard to the government ????

[alias]

20 minutes ago, Ironmaiden said:

a cloth mask is a excellent moist medium for growing covid

Any accumulated virus particles may remain viable for longer in a moist environment, but they can't reproduce outside a person can they?

12 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I thought that was what all wearers of cloth masks did.

So did I - I'd estimate that I don't wear a mask for more than around 20-30 minutes before washing it, and whatever the duration of wearing mine gets a wash each time it is removed even if only a few minutes.

[Jerra]

13 minutes ago, Ironmaiden said:

Simply... No people do not wash them regularly. With regard to the government ????

Do you know this and if so how or are you merely assuming?

[Ironmaiden]

5 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

We were not discussing Carbon Monoxide though? We were discussing Covid.

 

So why is it not an indicator in the issue we were actually discussing?

 

(My son in law spent weeks in ICU with Covid and the team caring for him were constantly very conscious of what his Oxygen levels were, are you saying they were wrong to do so?).

No they were not wrong to do so, but when we take a admission to critical care under this kind of situation, a arterial line would have been inserted, usually in the wrist near the artial pulse, that would allow regular blood gas samples to be taken showing the amount of oxygen his cells are carrying, along with other indicators.. I assume he was ventilated. 

[Guest]

Just now, Ironmaiden said:

No they were not wrong to do so, but when we take a admission to critical care under this kind of situation, a arterial line would have been inserted, usually in the wrist near the artial pulse, that would allow regular blood gas samples to be taken showing the amount of oxygen his cells are carrying, along with other indicators.. I assume he was ventilated. 

Yes he was. 

 

And yes he had blood gasses taken too. Though I dont know the site they were taken from.

[restlessnomad]

6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Many are tested every 2-weeks because of their proximity to the 'public' (Taxi drivers, for example)

thought people are facing difficulty in getting tested and driving for miles?

I believe such cases(multiple tests) are pretty insignificant statistically.(compared to total number of people being tested)

[Athy]

19 minutes ago, Ironmaiden said:

. No, people do not wash them regularly. 

Corrected that to what I think you meant.

 

Mrs. Athy has run up several, and they do go through the washing machine, though not always after a single use. As this could typically be for 90 seconds in the shop next door, do we need to?

[restlessnomad]

39 minutes ago, Ironmaiden said:

Getting back to the topic of wearing masks, I would like to see studies Don in the community about people wearing homemade cloth masks.. 

I believe that by wearing a cloth mask you are in fact wearing a petri dish of infection, a cloth mask is a excellent moist medium for growing covid.. 

There are many studies showing this to be the case, or simply ask yourself the question, "why do theatre staff over the past75 years not just wear cloth masks instead of single use disposable" 

I have been in theatre and witnessed masks being changed by staff several times in lengthy procedures. 

because the risk to patients in hospitals is far greater, its not only corona virus they area dealing with.... for general public, its unnecessary to use single use surgical mask.

Edited September 29, 2020 by restlessnomad

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

Corrected that to what I think you meant.

 

Mrs. Athy has run up several, and they do go through the washing machine, though not always after a single use. As this could typically be for 90 seconds in the shop next door, do we need to?

Strictly you should wash after every single use, but I concede I dont either.

[restlessnomad]

6 minutes ago, Athy said:

Corrected that to what I think you meant.

 

Mrs. Athy has run up several, and they do go through the washing machine, though not always after a single use. As this could typically be for 90 seconds in the shop next door, do we need to?

it does not stay long on clothes... (max few hours) but longer on hard surfaces... frequent washing is not really needed.... and I dont think corona virus grows faster in moist medium...

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

thought people are facing difficulty in getting tested and driving for miles?

I believe such cases(multiple tests) are pretty insignificant statistically.(compared to total number of people being tested)

In 2015 there were  298,000 registered taxi drivers (I imagine there will be a similar number in 2020).

 

To retain their licence taxi drivers are now required to have a test every 2 weeks. Maybe in the greater scheme of things 150,000 per week is not 'huge' but it is certainly large enough to have an effect on the statistics.

 

Maybe that is why some are having difficulty in getting tests  - daily tests seem to be running at 198,000 so, Taxi drivers are taking ~ 1 day per week of the tests.

[restlessnomad]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In 2015 there were  298,000 registered taxi drivers (I imagine there will be a similar number in 2020).

 

To retain their licence taxi drivers are now required to have a test every 2 weeks. Maybe in the greater scheme of things 150,000 per week is not 'huge' but it is certainly large enough to have an effect on the statistics.

 

Maybe that is why some are having difficulty in getting tests  - daily tests seem to be running at 198,000 so, Taxi drivers are taking ~ 1 day per week of the tests.

ok, 150k is significant number....

did not know about the rule... is it national? does one need to test only on showing symptom or mandatory every 2 weeks even without symptom?

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, restlessnomad said:

ok, 150k is significant number....

did not know about the rule... is it national? does one need to test only on showing symptom or mandatory every 2 weeks even without symptom?

According to our Taxi driver friend it is mandatory every 2 weeks, he has to go into hospital for the test. He understands it to be National.

The stupid part is that he could go to Heathrow 'on his way home from hospital', pick up a family from 'anywhere' who are heading home to Quarantine and within the next 2 weeks he could develop symptoms (or not) and potentially infect other passengers.

[restlessnomad]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

According to our Taxi driver friend it is mandatory every 2 weeks, he has to go into hospital for the test. He understands it to be National.

The stupid part is that he could go to Heathrow 'on his way home from hospital', pick up a family from 'anywhere' who are heading home to Quarantine and within the next 2 weeks he could develop symptoms (or not) and potentially infect other passengers.

very intriguing because taxi drivers are not on essential workers list(who get priority in testing), plus I cant find the rule anywhere..

[Athy]

51 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Strictly you should wash after every single use, but I concede I dont either.

I suspect (and the other Nomad's post supports the idea) that much depends on how often you wear a mask. We have been told that the bugs don't last more than a few hours on soft surfaces, so if I wear my mask only twice a week (my typical use) I should be able to use the same one both times.

 

The trouble is, of course, that so much about the wee bug and its habits remains unknown.

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

very intriguing because taxi drivers are not on essential workers list(who get priority in testing), plus I cant find the rule anywhere..

 

Well having looked myself, the BBC reported on 9th July that all Taxi drivers and cleaners must be tested regularly but it did not mention the 2-week cycle.

[Jerra]

Just now, Athy said:

 so if I wear my mask only twice a week (my typical use) I should be able to use the same one both times.

Last time I looked they suggested 72 hrs for hard surfaces and less for soft so I would agree twice a week is probably giving them more than enough "quarantine".

[alias]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

I suspect (and the other Nomad's post supports the idea) that much depends on how often you wear a mask. We have been told that the bugs don't last more than a few hours on soft surfaces, so if I wear my mask only twice a week (my typical use) I should be able to use the same one both times.

 

The trouble is, of course, that so much about the wee bug and its habits remains unknown.

Yes, should  be ok for Covid risk to reuse a mask some time after it has dried (e.g. fron condensation from breathing.  However I think there is a (possibly theoretical) risk of a moist mask allowing other bacteria or fungi to proliferate and cause a different problem.  

 

I saw a recommendation somewhere to treat reusable masks like underwear. Change immediately if wet, or daily if not, and wash before reuse. Discard once stained.