Interpreting the Law

[GUMPY]

22 hours ago, LadyG said:

I would know if I am going to sneeze, but I need fresh air in to my nostrils, being asthmatic, AND I am high risk, ie this disease is likely going to kill me if I get it, and forced ventilation is not a good death.

There was an interesting experiment I saw a report of a while back, several asthmatics agreed to wear masks and have their blood oxygen levels monitored. Guess what, they all stayed above 95% so masks do not deprive people of oxygen, its all in the mind !

[GUMPY]

6 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

I tried that. Didn't work

 

Of the various masks available, I have found that the surgical mask, with a bit of metal that bends over my nose, has worked best to resist fogging.

 

Anyone who has watched the video with a laser showing droplets with, and without, a mask, will know that they have a significant effect. The petri dishes shown here only serve to add to that. In addition, the cartoon doing the rounds where someone pisses on you:

 

Both Naked : you get soaked in piss.

 

Pisser wearing trousers and underpants: no piss reaches you, even if naked.

 

Pisser naked, Pissed on wearing trousers etc.: trousers get damp, a bit might get through

 

Both wearing trousers etc.: no piss gets near you.

 

The pictures are better, but it ain't rocket science, even for Smelly.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

5 hours ago, Jerra said:

The air flow is directed downwards by the face shield.   The droplets are so very tiny they flow along with the air so more than a few escape from below the shield. 

And out the sides and round the back. I suppose they are better than nothing. Maybe.

[Jerra]

43 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

And out the sides and round the back. I suppose they are better than nothing. Maybe.

As far as I have read the main source of infection is the area which has the virus direct from the mouth and nose roughly a couple of m.  Hence the social distance.  It would seem again according to my reading that a lot of them are heavy and fall to the ground within this distance.   So I suppose those that go down wards or backwards aren't as big a risk particularly those already directed downwards.

 

Just my interpretation of what I have read but it does seem logical to me.

 

I would agree anything is better than nothing.

[bizzard]

I drove from Harlow back to Stortford this afternoon when the kids were coming out of school. Hundreds of em in big groups from various schools along the way. Not one did I see wearing a mask, not cool do do so I suppose. If any caught the virus they''ll be taking it home.

[sueb]

What is the etiquette when you need to blow your nose when wearing a mask?

[Rickent]

The death toll from lock down measures is now estimated to be around 75000, far more than the actual virus.

307 people under 60 with no underlying health issues have died since February,  that is out of a population of 67 million.

1400 from all age ranges without health issues, again from a population of 67 million, we are using a test that is unsuitable for diagnoses and produces more false positives than actual positives. 

The pandemic followed a classic curve in infections and deaths but is now over, cases are going up due to more testing and massive amounts of false positives, hospitalizations and deaths have flatlined and remain very low. 

 

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

 t. In addition, the cartoon doing the rounds where someone pisses on you:

 

Both Naked : you get soaked in piss.

 

Pisser wearing trousers and underpants: no piss reaches you, even if naked.

 

Pisser naked, Pissed on wearing trousers etc.: trousers get damp, a bit might get through

 

Both wearing trousers etc.: no piss gets near you.

 

 

I liked that one as well

[Rickent]

 

[bizzard]

19 minutes ago, sueb said:

What is the etiquette when you need to blow your nose when wearing a mask?

If your prone to blowing the old hooter a lot, a thing like a sand blasting cabinet with a big hole in the bottom to poke your head through and into it, and then you can put your hands clutching your hankey through the two arm hole flaps to blow it.  All nice and sociable.  You can get smallish ones, not too heavy to wear walking about in the shops.

[Jerra]

25 minutes ago, Rickent said:

The death toll from lock down measures is now estimated to be around 75000, far more than the actual virus.

Says whom?

25 minutes ago, Rickent said:

307 people under 60 with no underlying health issues have died since February,  that is out of a population of 67 million.

1400 from all age ranges without health issues, again from a population of 67 million,

Giving a number from an age range and then saying out of a population of 67,000,000 is meaning less.   You need to compare it to the number in the age group e.g. (NB these figures are deliberately silly to make the point) if the total of under 60s was 500 the figure of 307 is much more serious than if the total were 20,000,000

25 minutes ago, Rickent said:

we are using a test that is unsuitable for diagnoses and produces more false positives than actual positives. 

The pandemic followed a classic curve in infections and deaths but is now over, cases are going up due to more testing and massive amounts of false positives, hospitalizations and deaths have flatlined and remain very low. 

 

If the pandemic is over why are cases both here and abroad rising fairly rapidly?   The suggestion that cases are owing to more testing was destroyed by a scientist recently pointing out that the % of positive cases had remained the same as the number of tests rose.

[Rickent]

3 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Says whom?

Giving a number from an age range and then saying out of a population of 67,000,000 is meaning less.   You need to compare it to the number in the age group e.g. (NB these figures are deliberately silly to make the point) if the total of under 60s was 500 the figure of 307 is much more serious than if the total were 20,000,000

If the pandemic is over why are cases both here and abroad rising fairly rapidly?   The suggestion that cases are owing to more testing was destroyed by a scientist recently pointing out that the % of positive cases had remained the same as the number of tests rose.

An official government report says so.

The death figures are not meaningless, they are from ONS. I am not quoting figures willy nilly, 307 people under the age of 60 with no underlying health issues have died, fact .

The cases are rising due to the unsuitable test, it is not designed to diagnose, it cannot differentiate one virus from another, it produces a high number of false positives, if you don't believe this see what Karry Mullis has to say, he invented the test to study the link between HIV and aids.

 

 

[Graham Davis]

2 hours ago, Loddon said:

There was an interesting experiment I saw a report of a while back, several asthmatics agreed to wear masks and have their blood oxygen levels monitored. Guess what, they all stayed above 95% so masks do not deprive people of oxygen, its all in the mind !

Quite, but some people think they know better!

 

49 minutes ago, Rickent said:

The death toll from lock down measures is now estimated to be around 75000, far more than the actual virus.

307 people under 60 with no underlying health issues have died since February,  that is out of a population of 67 million.

1400 from all age ranges without health issues, again from a population of 67 million, we are using a test that is unsuitable for diagnoses and produces more false positives than actual positives. 

The pandemic followed a classic curve in infections and deaths but is now over, cases are going up due to more testing and massive amounts of false positives, hospitalizations and deaths have flatlined and remain very low. 

 

What planet are you on?
Are all the cases now being reported at Universities false?

[Rickent]

3 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Quite, but some people think they know better!

 

What planet are you on?
Are all the cases now being reported at Universities false?

possibly, I am sorry but I am not on planet fear.

5 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Quite, but some people think they know better!

 

What planet are you on?
Are all the cases now being reported at Universities false?

please watch the video I posted with Karry Mullis, it tells you all you need to know about the pcr test.

If any one should know, he should, he invented it.

[Rickent]

top graph cases, middle graph hospitalizations, bottom graph deaths.

[Graham Davis]

None of which states that the pandemic is over and the infections have stopped, which is what you stated.

Your exact words:

""The pandemic followed a classic curve in infections and deaths but is now over, cases are going up due to more testing and massive amounts of false positives, hospitalizations and deaths have flatlined and remain very low. ""

[Jerra]

4 minutes ago, Rickent said:

An official government report says so.

Thank you.  Would you care to tell me which one I would like to read it.

4 minutes ago, Rickent said:

The death figures are not meaningless, they are from ONS. I am not quoting figures willy nilly, 307 people under the age of 60 with no underlying health issues have died, fact .

It is a fact that that 307 < 60yrs old have died true.   What is meaningless is tagging that to 67,000,000 as if all 67,000,000 were in the age group.    If you want/need to give a number alongside the fact it needs to be the number in the discussed age group as I pointed out.

4 minutes ago, Rickent said:

The cases are rising due to the unsuitable test, it is not designed to diagnose,

Hang on it was owing to the number of tests before.   Whether the tests are unsuitable or not the same percentage of positives if occurring as before.  Which means that the number of cases is rising whether it is infallible as a diagnostic test or not.   Incidentally which group of clowns developed a test which wasn't intended to diagnose before they developed one for diagnosis.   Do you have a reference which explains this test isn't intended for diagnosis?   I certainly haven't come across one yet.

4 minutes ago, Rickent said:

it cannot differentiate one virus from another, it produces a high number of false positives, if you don't believe this see what Karry Mullis has to say, he invented the test to study the link between HIV and aids.

Even if they tests produces a high number of false positives it seems to be doing it with regularity otherwise the percentage of positives in the tests would vary (probably wildly) they aren't they are holding steady.   Which logically means that the number of positives is being regular as well.   It is illogical to suggest otherwise IMO

 

Can you explain how the percentage of tests that are positive is holding the same through all the increases in tests otherwise?

[Jerra]

I wonder if any of those who say our increase in cases is owing to more testing can explain why almost every country in Europe is having an increase in cases.

 

Are they all suddenly doing more testing?    If not why the synchronised up turn?

[Rickent]

5 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Thank you.  Would you care to tell me which one I would like to read it.

It is a fact that that 307 < 60yrs old have died true.   What is meaningless is tagging that to 67,000,000 as if all 67,000,000 were in the age group.    If you want/need to give a number alongside the fact it needs to be the number in the discussed age group as I pointed out.

Hang on it was owing to the number of tests before.   Whether the tests are unsuitable or not the same percentage of positives if occurring as before.  Which means that the number of cases is rising whether it is infallible as a diagnostic test or not.   Incidentally which group of clowns developed a test which wasn't intended to diagnose before they developed one for diagnosis.   Do you have a reference which explains this test isn't intended for diagnosis?   I certainly haven't come across one yet.

Even if they tests produces a high number of false positives it seems to be doing it with regularity otherwise the percentage of positives in the tests would vary (probably wildly) they aren't they are holding steady.   Which logically means that the number of positives is being regular as well.   It is illogical to suggest otherwise IMO

 

Can you explain how the percentage of tests that are positive is holding the same through all the increases in tests otherwise?

All media outlets were reporting 75000 deaths, go look it up.

You are correct about under 60 and 67,000,000,  but 1400 deaths from all age groups is from 67,000,000 and that amount is extremely small percentage wise.

The positives are not holding steady, they are rising, exponentially according to the government. 

The clown that invented the test is Karry Mullis, it was an analytical test to try and establish the link between HIV and aids, it was never intended for diagnosis, if you don't believe it do a little research and find out, he is a nobel prize winner, so hardly a clown.

[Jerra]

3 minutes ago, Rickent said:

 

The positives are not holding steady, they are rising, exponentially according to the government. 

 

You don't seem to have comprehended what I have said.   I will try again.   Yes the cases are rising exponentially however the percentage of them (you do understand percentages don't you) that are positive is staying the same.

 

For example if there were 1000 cases today and 10% were positive (that's 100) then next week there were 2500 cases the way things are going 10% would be positive (that's 250).   That is by simply looking at the figures an increase in cases.

 

N.B.   I am not saying those figures are real I am merely using them as an example because you seemed to have difficulty understanding the way I expressed it in words.

[Rickent]

 

[Rickent]

9 minutes ago, Jerra said:

You don't seem to have comprehended what I have said.   I will try again.   Yes the cases are rising exponentially however the percentage of them (you do understand percentages don't you) that are positive is staying the same.

 

For example if there were 1000 cases today and 10% were positive (that's 100) then next week there were 2500 cases the way things are going 10% would be positive (that's 250).   That is by simply looking at the figures an increase in cases.

 

N.B.   I am not saying those figures are real I am merely using them as an example because you seemed to have difficulty understanding the way I expressed it in words.

I do understand percentages, to say that the positives have stayed steady, or in your own words, the same , you would have to know the exact number of tests that were carried out daily,  the point I am trying to make is that there is a very real chance, due to the test being used, that a high percentage of new cases are false positives and this looks the case as hospital admissions and deaths are not rising in conjuction with the cases.

Reading your post again , you cannot differentiate between a case and a positive test, a positive test is a case.

[Jerra]

4 minutes ago, Rickent said:

I do understand percentages, to say that the positives have stayed steady, or in your own words, the same , you would have to know the exact number of tests that were carried out daily,  the point I am trying to make is that there is a very real chance, due to the test being used, that a high percentage of new cases are false positives and this looks the case as hospital admissions and deaths are not rising in conjuction with the cases.

Reading your post again , you cannot differentiate between a case and a positive test, a positive test is a case.

First using case as a colloquialism meaning as we were discussing tests, I didn't expect pedantry.

 

There is a real chance that a number of tests are false positives the point is that if the percentage of claimed positives remains roughly the same over time then, either the number of false positives is steadily increasing (illogical) or the number of people who have been positive at a test is increasing.   Granted on one day there may only be say 8% real positives and two percent false and another day it might be 5% false and a third day only 1%   However the trend is up, so unless the real positives (it seems silly to say positive positives) are decreasing and the false positives are regularly increasing there has to be an increase in true positives.

 

Can you explain why virtually every country in Europe is experiencing an upturn in cases (I use the term as that is what the graphs are labeled).   Have they all suddenly ramped up their testing to give the result you suggest?   Personally I doubt it.

 

I am interested in how you explain away this synchronised (well maybe not synchronised but certainly at similar stages in the year) rise across many countries around the world.

 

 

[Ironmaiden]

3 hours ago, Loddon said:

There was an interesting experiment I saw a report of a while back, several asthmatics agreed to wear masks and have their blood oxygen levels monitored. Guess what, they all stayed above 95% so masks do not deprive people of oxygen, its all in the mind !

That kind of experiment is totally meaningless, for it to get correct results the participants would need to have artirial lines inserted so that blood analysis can be done to check what is happening to there bicarb etc. 

That would then show whether acidosis is starting to take place along with other changes to their bases. 

Sticking a pulse oximetry on their finger can be very misleading, red blood cells can be totally full of carbon monoxide but pulse oximetry would show that you are oxygenating 100%......but you would be about to die. 

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Ironmaiden said:

Sticking a pulse oximetry on their finger can be very misleading, red blood cells can be totally full of carbon monoxide but pulse oximetry would show that you are oxygenating 100%......but you would be about to die. 

Now that is a very very bold statement.......very.

 

Can you please support that with some very very clear clinical evidence.

 

(After you have clarified what carbon monoxide has got to do with the discussion of course).