Interpreting the Law

[restlessnomad]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Well having looked myself, the BBC reported on 9th July that all Taxi drivers and cleaners must be tested regularly but it did not mention the 2-week cycle.

that was a planned pilot, not sure if it happened.

 

there was some confusion regarding who should get tested, and people booking tests willy nilly and govt not really caring due to excess capacity for a month or two, but that has changed recently.

 A week or so ago Matt Hancock said there is no confusion, its absolutely clear (  ), only get tested if you have symptom or specifically have been asked to do so by authority. (applies even to essential workers), if you go online to book a test, you can see the options. (one of them is essential worker with symptom)

 

[Sir Nibble]

2 hours ago, Ironmaiden said:

Getting back to the topic of wearing masks, I would like to see studies Don in the community about people wearing homemade cloth masks.. 

I believe that by wearing a cloth mask you are in fact wearing a petri dish of infection, a cloth mask is a excellent moist medium for growing covid.. 

There are many studies showing this to be the case, or simply ask yourself the question, "why do theatre staff over the past75 years not just wear cloth masks instead of single use disposable" 

I have been in theatre and witnessed masks being changed by staff several times in lengthy procedures. 

Bacteria thrive in damp conditions but a virus can only reproduce by infecting a living, functioning cell; from a susceptible species (like us). So covid will not reproduce outside the body. We'd be stuffed if it could.

From Wiki:

"A virus is a submicroscopic infectious agent that replicates only inside the living cells of an organism."

[restlessnomad]

22 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Bacteria thrive in damp conditions but a virus can only reproduce by infecting a living, functioning cell; from a susceptible species (like us). So covid will not reproduce outside the body. We'd be stuffed if it could.

From Wiki:

"A virus is a submicroscopic infectious agent that replicates only inside the living cells of an organism."

ah completely forgot this school biology lesson...

 that side by side petri dish test to show efficacy of face covering was on my mind.

Edited September 29, 2020 by restlessnomad

[nbfiresprite]

On 26/09/2020 at 11:22, Arthur Marshall said:

Lincoln is an odd place, very insular and I can imagine that there will be a considerable flouting of the guidelines.  I lived there for many years and was extremely pleased to leave... I do think that a considerable number of people of various age groups are now comfortable with ignoring advice/rules/laws about Covid protection and we just have to put up with it, I'm afraid.  There has been such inconsistency and official misinformation, coupled with the fact that everyone knows someone on FaceBook who heard THE TRUTH from an expert somewhere, that everyone is now making up their own minds as to what is safe and how to behave.matters,

 

[LadyG]

14 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

Bacteria thrive in damp conditions but a virus can only reproduce by infecting a living, functioning cell; from a susceptible species (like us). So covid will not reproduce outside the body. We'd be stuffed if it could.

From Wiki:

"A virus is a submicroscopic infectious agent that replicates only inside the living cells of an organism."

I don't think that a virus which is human host will replicate in a mask, it's not a great idea to re use without washing, but it will happen, the mask is to prevent the spread, outwards and inwards ie stop you infecting others and vice versa, we are not talking about perfect hygeine, hospital grade , just reasonabe common sense.

[Sir Nibble]

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I don't think that a virus which is human host will replicate in a mask, it's not a great idea to re use without washing, but it will happen, the mask is to prevent the spread, outwards and inwards ie stop you infecting others and vice versa, we are not talking about perfect hygeine, hospital grade , just reasonabe common sense.

I KNOW that a virus won't replicate in a mask. Definitely not. Can't happen. Dead subject.

[LadyG]

On 28/09/2020 at 19:15, Loddon said:

There was an interesting experiment I saw a report of a while back, several asthmatics agreed to wear masks and have their blood oxygen levels monitored. Guess what, they all stayed above 95% so masks do not deprive people of oxygen, its all in the mind !

I think the government pronouncement mentioned asthma as an excuse for not wearing a mask, so promting a lot of asthmatics not to wear masks, in fact this is stupid, as they are exposing themselves to contamination from othersi thus increasing their risk of a serious attack. If an attack is brought on by wearing a mask, they can just remove it, I think attacks are made worse by panic, and 'gasping for breath', this would not be replicated in a controlled experiment.

Edited September 30, 2020 by LadyG

[alias]

20 hours ago, alias said:

 

You can see the log of potential contacts under settings>Google (sevices and pferences)> COVID 19 exposure notifications and mine only seems to log exposure checks with the app in the foreground on the screen.

After investigation it seems I misunderstood the content of this log. The entries in it reflect download of daily data on phones that reported positive matches, and the result of a check as to whether any of them are matched contacts. This download and check only occurs with the app in the foreground, but I'm told that doesn't mean scanning for matches isn't going on in the background. 

[Guest]

Hardly a representative sample I know, but my wife is asthmatic and she tolerates wearing a mask with no issue what so ever.

 

[LadyG]

18 hours ago, Athy said:

Quite so - we alternate weekly between Tesco and Waitrose deliveries. It took me a while to get used to the change of routine, as I love supermarket shopping, but we have rarely been into a supermarket in several months. When we go to the boat, we take all our food and drink with us. We've been into a couple of antique centres and a couple of garden centres, but these are not crowded places. I do visit the butcher's next door to us, but they operate a strict one-customer-in-shop policy.

I actually went into Wisbech and back on the 'bus last week, I felt that I was being quite adventurous.

I know exactly what you nean Athy, I have been to three pubs recently , one per week, and got in a tiz when asked by text, to download a track and trace app, I don't know how to do this, as yet, never mind one of those 'reader things'

I try to do my big shop on the same day, as my pub visit,then sit at home and hope I 'm OK

I had a visitor from Leeds, he was not from inner city, normally never transgresses, and brought me 'essential supplies', namely food!

His wife wants to visit grandkids, she will go in a car, and use 'The Dominic Durham Rule', just not visiting Barnard Castle or Specsavers en route.

Edited September 30, 2020 by LadyG

[Murflynn]

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

................................   they are exposing themselves to contamination from others  ...................................................

er, no not really    

[Athy]

14 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I know exactly what you nean Athy, I have been to three pubs recently , one per week, and got in a tiz when asked by text, to download a track and trace app, I don't know how to do this, as yet, never mind one of those 'reader things'

Who asked you, and how did they know your contact details?

11 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

er, no not really    

I'd say yes, really.

[alias]

8 minutes ago, Athy said:

Who asked you, and how did they know your contact details?

Possibly this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs-covid-19-app-emails-and-sms-messages&ved=2ahUKEwj3l-H5wJDsAhWlTxUIHXiyBsIQFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2ZtOC6_t4XDbPwz6F_eS7G&cshid=1601456167750

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Athy said:

Who asked you, and how did they know your contact details?

I'd say yes, really.

I got the text yesterday too.

 

I haven't downloaded the app. yet though.

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I think the government pronouncement mentioned asthma as an excuse for not wearing a mask, so promting a lot of asthmatics not to wear masks,

My daughter is asthmatic and she sees a mask as an essential every time she steps out of the door.

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

My daughter is asthmatic and she sees a mask as an essential every time she steps out of the door.

I am not asthmatic, but am borderline COPD as a result of a big op in my chest in 2008. The thought of even catching flu, never mind Covid, is frightening if I stop and think about it.

 

A mask is essential, as is social distancing - unbelievable that anyone except the most severely affected would even consider resisting the wearing of one.

 

As for the resistance to cloth masks - have 3, and f'ing wash them after use!!!

 

 

[Sir Nibble]

2 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

I am not asthmatic, but am borderline COPD as a result of a big op in my chest in 2008. The thought of even catching flu, never mind Covid, is frightening if I stop and think about it.

 

A mask is essential, as is social distancing - unbelievable that anyone except the most severely affected would even consider resisting the wearing of one.

 

As for the resistance to cloth masks - have 3, and f'ing wash them after use!!!

 

 

Let's see. If I pass on covid to you with your COPD it could easily kill you. Now set that off against the fact that I find the mask a bit irksome to wear. 

This is where I choose to be a good citizen provided with a normal level of common humanity or a callous hard hearted selfish shit.

Wouldn't think there would even be a choice would you.

[mayalld]

On ‎29‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 09:09, alias said:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

 

Note the caveats, particularly that these are numbers of tests rather than the number of individuals tested, and reported against the date of test processing (rather than sampling). 

 

Not so.

 

The headline figure is the number reported today, but the data series you can download is by sample date.

[mayalld]

5 hours ago, alias said:

After investigation it seems I misunderstood the content of this log. The entries in it reflect download of daily data on phones that reported positive matches, and the result of a check as to whether any of them are matched contacts. This download and check only occurs with the app in the foreground, but I'm told that doesn't mean scanning for matches isn't going on in the background. 

The app requests the log around every 2 hours, and what it gets are the keys of anybody whose app has them as being positive (whether because they say they have symptoms or because they have tested positive)

 

What your app does is check if it has seen any of those keys.

 

If it has, then the API will flag up a banner to say that your app will evaluate the contact.

 

That means that the app will look at how long and how close the contact is, before deciding if you need to isolate.

 

I have had one flag of a contact, but the app didn't evaluate it as a close contact.

[alias]

11 minutes ago, mayalld said:

The app requests the log around every 2 hours

In that case I think my phone may not be playing nicely with it. I have 20 records all timestamped at 23:18 yesterday, (all with zero keys), and then none for several hours. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by alias

[mayalld]

1 minute ago, alias said:

In that case I think my phone may not be playing nicely with it. I have 20 records all timestamped at 23:18 yesterday, (all with zero keys), and then none for several hours. 

Yes, it does seem to be slightly less than regular!

 

[alias]

38 minutes ago, mayalld said:

 

Not so.

 

The headline figure is the number reported today, but the data series you can download is by sample date.

Yes you're right, some of that descriptive text related to the cases page that I was looking at before posting, not tests. Must try harder.

Edited September 30, 2020 by alias

[Ironmaiden]

7 hours ago, LadyG said:

I don't think that a virus which is human host will replicate in a mask, it's not a great idea to re use without washing, but it will happen, the mask is to prevent the spread, outwards and inwards ie stop you infecting others and vice versa, we are not talking about perfect hygeine, hospital grade , just reasonabe common sense.

Sorry but it doesn’t quit work like that, one of many studies 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

21 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

Bacteria thrive in damp conditions but a virus can only reproduce by infecting a living, functioning cell; from a susceptible species (like us). So covid will not reproduce outside the body. We'd be stuffed if it could.

From Wiki:

"A virus is a submicroscopic infectious agent that replicates only inside the living cells of an organism."

Must be true if it’s on wiki!

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

[alias]

1 hour ago, Ironmaiden said:

22 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

Bacteria thrive in damp conditions but a virus can only reproduce by infecting a living, functioning cell; from a susceptible species (like us). So covid will not reproduce outside the body. We'd be stuffed if it could.

From Wiki:

"A virus is a submicroscopic infectious agent that replicates only inside the living cells of an organism."

Must be true if it’s on wiki!

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

There are other sources e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26917/

"Viruses cause diseases ranging from AIDS and smallpox to the common cold. They are essentially fragments of nucleic acid (DNA or RNA) instructions, wrapped in a protective shell of proteins and (in some cases) membrane (Figure 25-2A). They use the basic transcription and translation machinery of their host cells for their replication."

 

What I think people were questioning is that you appeared to be saying that Covid could reproduce in a mask: (I believe that by wearing a cloth mask you are in fact wearing a petri dish of infection, a cloth mask is a excellent moist medium for growing covid.. ). 

[restlessnomad]

55 minutes ago, Ironmaiden said:

Sorry but it doesn’t quit work like that, one of many studies 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

Must be true if it’s on wiki!

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

it does not say virus can reproduce outside host... it does speculate moisture retention and poor filtration as cause...

considering we are not healthcare professional (who are bombarded with virus) and combined with social distancing, it is good enough for reducing infection rate.