Jump to content

Interpreting the Law


LadyG

Featured Posts

On 26/09/2020 at 11:28, haggis said:

Our doctors surgery is doing as they always do and hiring a big hall where those who "qualify" for a flu vaccine, go along at the appointed hour and get their free jab.  It works like clockwork and you are in and out in a couple of minutes.  We will certainly be getting ours.

We are on the boat when our doctor is doing it, they do 3 Saturday mornings, the first two for the oldies and the third for the younger ones

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

We are on the boat when our doctor is doing it, they do 3 Saturday mornings, the first two for the oldies and the third for the younger ones

We are usually boating when our doc surgery has the mass vaccination day and we just book a visit to the practice nurse when we come home.  This will be the first year we have been at home for a while! Hope to go boating about mid October though.

 

haggis

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/09/2020 at 06:59, LadyG said:

This is a rant.

I have been living in virtual isolation for six months now, and faced with another six, is it worth it?

I went in to town for groceries, unable to get a decent pub lunch, without using Wetherspoons where I would have to wait ten minutes to be allocated one of the approx twenty empty tables.

I ended up with chips on polystyrene and cheap mayo, bad choice, should have tried that Subway place.

After visiting three pubs without success I found The White Lion S801HF, excellent ale, a choice of two, I was the only customer, I looked at menu, ambitious, but at least there was plenty of choice, unable to eat due to those earlier chips ,  White Lion has no frills decor, and I really mean that! Exceptionally helpfull waitress.

I went to loo, directed to the disabled on ground floor, no problem, glanced in mirror, eeks ..... a face with all the signs of stress, eyes ringed with black circles etc.

I was unable to buy any unwashed potatoes or carrots, so will go to Lincoln today where there is a proper market stall, I really am astounded that the fruit and veg on offer locally is all Aldi lookalike, ie uniform veg produced by large scale agriculture. Lincolnshire for those who don't know has excellent veg growing soil, it is also flat, so easy to convert to large scale frearming, not so good.

Short journey by train, almost all the school age late teens were milling about with no face masks, when I nearly bumped into one I challenged him, I was told he had asthma, what that has to do with it I have no idea, it's an interpretation, none of these guys (bout a dozen of them), have a real medical excuse: I have asthma, and cover my face with a mask to prevent my spittle infecting others , but I let my nostrils have free access to fresh air. I usually also wear my safety glasses to prevent aerosols from infected people getting accces to my eyes, another point of entry! There was no way a two metre distance could be maintained, they were crowding immediately behind me..  A flag up to my current mental state is my refusal to let a covey of girls on to the train via the carriage I was using, I had my bike and blocked their entry! Miraculous,y they all donned masks just as the train arrived. So it's obvious that they are interpreting the Law, not complying, not even trying to stop the epidemic.

For those who are not aware, the Rule (of Law), is that face coverings must be worn on Railway Property, not just on the trains.

For those who are high risk, like myself, and who are now faced with indefinate isolation, take care....  I 

Which was none of your business!!
It is not up to you what people do or to "police" them. All you were doing was acting like a busybody.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Which was none of your business!!
It is not up to you what people do or to "police" them. All you were doing was acting like a busybody.

 

A couple of other thoughts occur to me.

 

The Lady seems to go to great lengths to protect herself and others then says she leaves her nose uncovered.  A sudden sneeze would infect others and she can be breathing in aerosol infection from others.   Yes I know the mask isn't to protect the wearer but by drawing air through the material it must reduce the force of intake and so probably the viral load.

 

Most railway platforms are open to the air and so not an enclosed space, which means the girls didn't need to be wearing masks until they boarded the train.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

A couple of other thoughts occur to me.

 

The Lady seems to go to great lengths to protect herself and others then says she leaves her nose uncovered.  A sudden sneeze would infect others and she can be breathing in aerosol infection from others.   Yes I know the mask isn't to protect the wearer but by drawing air through the material it must reduce the force of intake and so probably the viral load.

 

Most railway platforms are open to the air and so not an enclosed space, which means the girls didn't need to be wearing masks until they boarded the train.

Not sure about England, but here in Wales masks have to be worn on platforms as well. Whatever the regulations were, it was not and is not her Ladyship's job to enforce them. Even railway staff have been told just to remind people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Not sure about England, but here in Wales masks have to be worn on platforms as well. Whatever the regulations were, it was not and is not her Ladyship's job to enforce them. Even railway staff have been told just to remind people.

National rail isn't too clear on whether you need to or not.

 

They say:

 

Face coverings are mandatory on board the train and in all enclosed areas of railway stations, from when you enter a station, throughout your journey and exiting the station at the other end. If you are then moving onto the bus, tram or tube, you should avoid taking off your face covering while interchanging and avoid touching your face or mouth unnecessarily.

 

To me this can be read in two ways.

 

1.  You wear the mask in enclosed areas, however on most stations platforms aren't enclosed.

 

The alternative

 

2.  You wear the mask from entering the first station until you leave the final station.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

So what's new? 

I think these are what's commonly referred to as "first world problems".

 

My advice is once things get back to normal (if that ever happens), take a trip to West Africa and see what sort of lives other human beings are leading and the situations that they are having to deal with. You might feel a bit more fortunate about your own life once you get back.

Yes.

Some people in other parts of the world have rotten lives. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Jerra said:

A couple of other thoughts occur to me.

 

The Lady seems to go to great lengths to protect herself and others then says she leaves her nose uncovered.  A sudden sneeze would infect others and she can be breathing in aerosol infection from others.   Yes I know the mask isn't to protect the wearer but by drawing air through the material it must reduce the force of intake and so probably the viral load.

 

Most railway platforms are open to the air and so not an enclosed space, which means the girls didn't need to be wearing masks until they boarded the train.

Apart from anything else they were inside, but the point is, all railway property, inside or out.

I would know if I am going to sneeze, but I need fresh air in to my nostrils, being asthmatic, AND I am high risk, ie this disease is likely going to kill me if I get it, and forced ventilation is not a good death.

The point is, that the reason we are not controlling the situation is because this can on,y be controlled if all follow the rules. People won't make any effort, the first wave of enthusiastic washing of hands and cleaning troleys is long gone. Consensual efforts, just like our police system.

A guy of my age was trying to persude me to go to his club, he accepts that it is a bit risky, I am backing away from him, and he keeps coming closer, I go to a pub at quiet times, but deliberately avoid crowds, that  is common sense.

The people who ignore the rules AND who make no effort to control the disease are the ones responsible for the current situation.

I could be breathing in aerosols if other people crowd me, that is why there is a 2m rule.

As a first world country we should be in a better position than those in third world, most deprived and overcrowded will be at greater risk of disease, plus elderly in care homes, so extra effort should be made by all, 'protect the NHS' and all that....  

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I would know if I am going to seneeze, but I need fresh air in to my nostrils. 

If you have never had an unexpected sneeze you are extremely unusual in my experience.   Sneeze aerosol droplets have been shown to travel in excess of 7 m.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

I would know if I am going to sneeze, but I need fresh air in to my nostrils, being asthmatic, AND I am high risk, ie this disease is likely going to kill me if I get it.

 

 

I am a wee bit puzzled by this. Is air not fresh if it has been breathed in through a face covering? I have a few friends who are asthmatic and they seem to have no problem wearing face coverings but perhaps there are different kinds of asthma. I am asking for information, not  doubting what you are saying. I am a bit asthmatic and I find it is worse if I am stressed and for this reason, I find it easier on myself if I move away from any potential "too close contact" rather than remonstrate with people but that may not be true of all types of asthma. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason we aren't controlling the situation is because you can't control a virus. All you can do is try to reduce your chance of getting infected, and you do that by isolating yourself as much as possible, and that's it. You can wear a mask which isolates a bit of you a bit, and that may or may not protect others if you are a carrier, no-one seems very sure.

The only places that have managed any degree of control of infection spread have done it by quickly identifying an infected person and isolating them and their contacts completely, with the necessary support. There is no such functioning system in the UK.

So, if you go out and mix with people, you are likely to get infected, whatever rules they do or do not follow, and whatever the rules are this week. Until there's a working vaccine, isolation is all you can do.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/09/2020 at 15:58, Arthur Marshall said:

I think part of the problems is the numbers. You can sort of envisage half a dozen people dead, but fifty thousand is just too much, and when none of the people you know are in that number, you just close it out.  Until, of course, someone is.

In the meantime, Lincoln's main problem is that the Cathedral is up the top and the shops are mostly down the bottom, and the imaginatively named Steep Hill, is.  I used to live at the top and work at the bottom and I've heaved a pram up and down the damn thing more often than I care to remember. Probably most of the pubs I remember are shut by now, but if you do find the Turk's Head, do give it my best regards.

Sorry but unfortunately the Turk’s Head has been converted to flats? Gone the way of a lot of good locals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Jerra said:

If you have never had an unexpected sneeze you are extremely unusual in my experience.   Sneeze aerosol droplets have been shown to travel in excess of 7 m.

A good reason for others to wear masks when in a crowded situation.

1 minute ago, sueb said:

Re Flu vaccine I use my local chemist. Last year we just walked in, this year we have had to make an appointment. So much easier than our doctors.

I've been invited, but there is no vaccine  ......

11 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The reason we aren't controlling the situation is because you can't control a virus. All you can do is try to reduce your chance of getting infected, and you do that by isolating yourself as much as possible, and that's it. You can wear a mask which isolates a bit of you a bit, and that may or may not protect others if you are a carrier, no-one seems very sure.

The only places that have managed any degree of control of infection spread have done it by quickly identifying an infected person and isolating them and their contacts completely, with the necessary support. There is no such functioning system in the UK.

So, if you go out and mix with people, you are likely to get infected, whatever rules they do or do not follow, and whatever the rules are this week. Until there's a working vaccine, isolation is all you can do.

I have expereience of working during four Foot and Mouth outbreaks, this was controlled by cleaning, disinfecting and isolation, there was no vaccine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

I have expereience of working during four Foot and Mouth outbreaks, this was controlled by cleaning, disinfecting and isolation, there was no vaccine.

And shooting the animals and burning them on big heaps ?

 

Bolton , Blackburn and  Birmingham ...that may work...?

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

  but I need fresh air in to my nostrils, being asthmatic, 

Short journey by train, almost all the school age late teens were milling about with no face masks, when I nearly bumped into one I challenged him, I was told he had asthma, what that has to do with it I have no idea

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Short journey by train, almost all the school age late teens were milling about with no face masks, when I nearly bumped into one I challenged him, I was told he had asthma, what that has to do with it I have no idea

Neither have I.  My youngest daughter has asthma (recently taken from work direct to hospital with a severe attack) she copes with a mask well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Short journey by train, almost all the school age late teens were milling about with no face masks, when I nearly bumped into one I challenged him, I was told he had asthma, what that has to do with it I have no idea

Asthmatics are included in the groups that are exempt from wearing a mask, however as one and having worn a mask when doing deliveries for the food bank since this started I have found no problem in wearing both simple one layer ones or 3 layer medical ones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

Which was none of your business!!
It is not up to you what people do or to "police" them. All you were doing was acting like a busybody.

 

No, tbey were entering my bubble,  in spite of the fact that the law is there to protect me, to protect them, and to stop the plague.

I am a high risk person, I do not want to be assaulted by idiots who decide to interpret the laws to suit themselves. I have made my position clear, your post is pointless.

 

Edited by LadyG
  • Angry 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

kids will be kids, they have always been like that...

if they were with parents / guardians / teachers you could talk to them but you have no business telling off kids.

blocking train door with bike? are you out of your mind?

 

if you feel your life is in danger, stay inside and ask people to get things for you.... sit on top of the narrowboat for fresh air.

Edited by restlessnomad
  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

No, tbey were entering my bubble,  in spite of the fact that the law is there to protect me, to protect them, and to stop the plague.

I am a high risk person, I do not want to be assaulted by idiots who decide to interpret the laws to suit themselves. I have made my position clear, your post is pointless.

 

Everybody interprets laws to suit themselves, and so they should, because just because there's a law doesn't mean it's right. That's for each of us to decide, though admittedly most don't bother to think about it. The laws are not there to protect you, but the ability of the NHS to cope and the finances of the companies outsourced to do the testing and tracing. No law can stop a plague.  The only one who can protect you is yourself.

(Political comment, please ignore if necessary: if you think any of our current lawmakers give a toss about the lives of anyone worth less than a million quid, you really haven't been paying attention over the last year.)

It's a bit like cycling. The law says you've as much right to road space as anyone else, but if you don't cycle as if you're totally paranoid, you're going to get hurt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.