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LadyG

Interpreting the Law

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This is a rant.

I have been living in virtual isolation for six months now, and faced with another six, is it worth it?

I went in to town for groceries, unable to get a decent pub lunch, without using Wetherspoons where I would have to wait ten minutes to be allocated one of the approx twenty empty tables.

I ended up with chips on polystyrene and cheap mayo, bad choice, should have tried that Subway place.

After visiting three pubs without success I found The White Lion S801HF, excellent ale, a choice of two, I was the only customer, I looked at menu, ambitious, but at least there was plenty of choice, unable to eat due to those earlier chips ,  White Lion has no frills decor, and I really mean that! Exceptionally helpfull waitress.

I went to loo, directed to the disabled on ground floor, no problem, glanced in mirror, eeks ..... a face with all the signs of stress, eyes ringed with black circles etc.

I was unable to buy any unwashed potatoes or carrots, so will go to Lincoln today where there is a proper market stall, I really am astounded that the fruit and veg on offer locally is all Aldi lookalike, ie uniform veg produced by large scale agriculture. Lincolnshire for those who don't know has excellent veg growing soil, it is also flat, so easy to convert to large scale frearming, not so good.

Short journey by train, almost all the school age late teens were milling about with no face masks, when I nearly bumped into one I challenged him, I was told he had asthma, what that has to do with it I have no idea, it's an interpretation, none of these guys (bout a dozen of them), have a real medical excuse: I have asthma, and cover my face with a mask to prevent my spittle infecting others , but I let my nostrils have free access to fresh air. I usually also wear my safety glasses to prevent aerosols from infected people getting accces to my eyes, another point of entry! There was no way a two metre distance could be maintained, they were crowding immediately behind me..  A flag up to my current mental state is my refusal to let a covey of girls on to the train via the carriage I was using, I had my bike and blocked their entry! Miraculous,y they all donned masks just as the train arrived. So it's obvious that they are interpreting the Law, not complying, not even trying to stop the epidemic.

For those who are not aware, the Rule (of Law), is that face coverings must be worn on Railway Property, not just on the trains.

For those who are high risk, like myself, and who are now faced with indefinate isolation, take care....  I 

Edited by LadyG

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Just stay on your boat if you don't want any human contact. Problem solved.

 

Oh and for good veg in Worksop if you walk up Gateford Road onto Raymouth Lane there is an excellent farm shop. 

 

Right next door is The Three Legged Stool which does good food.

Edited by Naughty Cal

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45 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Just stay on your boat if you don't want any human contact. Problem solved.

 

Oh and for good veg in Worksop if you walk up Gateford Road onto Raymouth Lane there is an excellent farm shop. 

 

Right next door is The Three Legged Stool which does good food.

I am staying on my boat, but need to eat, and to enjoy a bit of R andR. Otherwise I condem myself to solitary confinement, which is a torture .  Do you not understand about the rapid rise in mental health problems, rising suicide rates in young men? Do you know that the respirators are forced ventilators, formerly known as iron lungs, in some parts of the world the survival of those on respirators is 10 percent. Patrick Childress died, his demise is logged on youtube by Rebecca, he was sick for a week, things got worse, see ' What really happened to Patrick Childress'

 

The rules are the only guidelines for those who have no idea how to stop disease transmission, which is most people. I would say that the only safe places where strict protocols are followed are a few pubs, and the bookies (racing continues without revenues from crowds).

I 'll try the farm shop if I ever go to Worksop again.

You missed my point, we are in an emergency situation, if everyone took every opportunity to stop the epidemic , as in wearing face masks when near people,  avoiding touching anything that other people before or after might touch, it would die out due to lack of opportunity to replicate. If we believe what a scientist once said, it would die out in 72 hours .... 

It is six months down the line and we are in a worse position than we were on 28th of March.

PS. There is no flu vaccine in Boots, is that nationwide?

Edited by LadyG

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There are always going to be people who refuse to follow rules,  guidance and guidelines.

 

Just look at how many "Ccers" don't CC.

 

What makes you think the general public are any different?

 

And we are not in a worse situation than we were in in March. We did not have large scale testing at that point and were only testing hospital admissions. The true numbers infected were far higher than the number of confirmed cases suggested.

Edited by Naughty Cal
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16 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

There are always going to be people who refuse to follow rules,  guidance and guidelines.

 

Just look at how many "Ccers" don't CC.

 

What makes you think the general public are any different?

 

And we are not in a worse situation than we were in in March. We did not have large scale testing at that point and were only testing hospital admissions. The true numbers infected were far higher than the number of confirmed cases suggested.

I can assure you that my scientific training, and forty years experience of dealing with food hygiene, and disease control, including four major epidemics allows me to be objective. 

Watch the video,, it's 35 minutes , there are two from SV Brick House, Patrick was a lovely man, very fit and active, his personna changed dramatically as the disease caught hold, in spite of help from many people trying to help, he died sadly, a bad death as they say.

Read Lockdown by Peter May, a book which imagines a more virulent organism, a worse scenario.

 

No one is going to die because someone breaks the rules of cc, that is a trivial matter.

 

This is an emergency, thousands more will die, businesses broken, Industries devastated, economy broken

The worse recession you will ever see, unemployment, rough sleepers, shops closed. And people think it's too much bother to follow a few simple rules.

 

 

Edited by LadyG

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Sorry you had a bad experience on the train, it seems to be a problem associated with some groups, and in some more enclosed and crowded situations?

Its a shame that you can’t be here, where things are more relaxed and the local kids respect the rules on masks (though not so much on where to ride their motor bikes but that’s a whole other thread...)

 

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17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I can assure you that my scientific training, and forty years experience of dealing with food hygiene, and disease control, including four major epidemics allows me to be objective. 

Watch the video,, it's 35 minutes , there are two from SV Brick House, Patrick was a lovely man, very fit and active, his personna changed dramatically as the disease caught hold, in spite of help from many people trying to help, he died sadly, a bad death as they say.

Read Lockdown by Peter May, a book which imagines a more virulent organism, a worse scenario

 

You've already remarked, that without full public support of the precautionary guidelines, you cannot have an overly optimistic containment expectation. There's no full support of guidelines. A higher casualty rate will be an expected norm, maybe an accepted norm, without/before it is felt the situation demands resorting to another lockdown.   

 

 

Edited by Higgs

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Ok, I came up to Blackpool to see Mum (85) on Thursday. 

Blackpool was busy, bars, eateries, everything else, but I wouldnt go out there as all the lurgy is coming in from East Lancs and Scotland by the coach load.(literally).

By Friday afternoon it is packed again, bars over spilling onto pavements and the usual drunken idiots Blackpool is now famous for.

 

On Friday afternoon,  Matt Hancock (following the science I may add) says that from Saturday I can no longer come to my Mums house or even sit in her garden and have a cup of tea.

 

However, all those tens of thousands of people can carry on coming to Blackpool, enjoy the bars until 10pm,  pubs, Pleasure Beach, Tower, Sea Life Centre etc with nobody checking Rule of 6 or limiting their freedom(cheers Boris)

 

It doesn't matter now though, they can blame the students for the R going up.

 

I coined the term Reactive Mismanagement for this government in April, it's got worse not better

 

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25 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I can assure you that my scientific training, and forty years experience of dealing with food hygiene, and disease control, including four major epidemics allows me to be objective. 

Watch the video,, it's 35 minutes , there are two from SV Brick House, Patrick was a lovely man, very fit and active, his personna changed dramatically as the disease caught hold, in spite of help from many people trying to help, he died sadly, a bad death as they say.

Read Lockdown by Peter May, a book which imagines a more virulent organism, a worse scenario.

 

No one is going to die because someone breaks the rules of cc, that is a trivial matter.

 

This is an emergency, thousands more will die, businesses broken, Industries devastated, economy broken

The worse recession you will ever see, unemployment, rough sleepers, shops closed. And people think it's too much bother to follow a few simple rules.

 

 

I take it you are a glass half empty type of person?

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Therein lies part of the problem, I suggest. You are focussing too much on negativity, death and disaster. I call it catastrophising - dwelling on the worst possible scenario. Which is a very powerful way to descend into misery and depression.

 

Try to have some happy thoughts, dwell on nice things instead.

I am trying to educate those who will not be educated, yes I am exposing myself to your critique: somewhere about six months ago I wrote a note, detailing progress of behaviours, it was the first day of lockdown

Sic days of adjustment 

Six weeks of compliance

Six months in, public unrest.

I was in Sheffield teo weeks ago, the pilice riot van with full complement, and two police horses, escorting a load of men, not the sons of steelworkers in their early twenties, demonstrating their right to demonstrate by parading snd shouting snd throwing placards about.

What as their protest?

Guess

Edited by LadyG

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17 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

I take it you are a glass half empty type of person?

I have a scientific training, I understand disease and it's spread. This is a war, run by politicians who pick snd mix soundbytes and figures, and they don't want to be seen to do anything which might lose votes. They have no grasp of the situation, they butter all their parsnips.

I have had asthma since the age of six, undiagnosed till I want to an asthma clinic when I was about thirty,, I was an athlete, but no matter how hard I trained, I kept hitting the wall .

I know that people like NC have never been hit by recession.

I know she has never had an asthma attack, I have only had one, it was like a chewed apple core down my windpipe, very scary ....... you don't live long without oxygen.

 

Edited by LadyG

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7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I was in Sheffield teo weeks ago, the pilice riot van with full complement, and two police horses, escorting a load of men, in there early twenties, demonstrating there right to demonstrate by parading snd shouting snd throwing placards about.

What as their protest?

Guess

 

I'd guess it was cruelty to horses - forcing 2 horses to get into a van with an already full compliment of 'Pilice'

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33 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Ok, I came up to Blackpool to see Mum (85) on Thursday. 

Blackpool was busy, bars, eateries, everything else, but I wouldnt go out there as all the lurgy is coming in from East Lancs and Scotland by the coach load.(literally).

By Friday afternoon it is packed again, bars over spilling onto pavements and the usual drunken idiots Blackpool is now famous for.

 

On Friday afternoon,  Matt Hancock (following the science I may add) says that from Saturday I can no longer come to my Mums house or even sit in her garden and have a cup of tea.

 

However, all those tens of thousands of people can carry on coming to Blackpool, enjoy the bars until 10pm,  pubs, Pleasure Beach, Tower, Sea Life Centre etc with nobody checking Rule of 6 or limiting their freedom(cheers Boris)

 

It doesn't matter now though, they can blame the students for the R going up.

 

I coined the term Reactive Mismanagement for this government in April, it's got worse not better

 

There are two factors at play, the science around the virus transmission, and the economy.

 

The bottom line is that when you visit your mother, you don’t contribute to the economy. When the hordes visit Blackpool, they keep the economy of the town going, thus avoiding business failures and mass unemployment.

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1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

I take it you are a glass half empty type of person?

Can I take it you are a half wit, by which I mean you think the disease is not affecting you or yours, so you don't need to change your behaviour OR THAT OF OTHER PEOPLE. 

I can give you a personal example of my half witted father, he smoked in the house, my mother horribly of lung cancer, he continued to smoke, never mentioned my mother again, it was obviously inconvenient having to pay for a housekeeper, so I got farmed out to relatives  until I was able to earn my own living.

My interest in disease was further nurtured by tuberculosis in a close relative, my uncle was a senior medic, so I was pretty much indoctrinated with all sorts of medical discussion as I sat at the kitchen table.

38 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

There are two factors at play, the science around the virus transmission, and the economy.

 

The bottom line is that when you visit your mother, you don’t contribute to the economy. When the hordes visit Blackpool, they keep the economy of the town going, thus avoiding business failures and mass unemployment.

You are correct.

I am reminded of the war films which told us of so many young men  who went off to war, amid cheering and full public support.

And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda (song)

......  sometimes we have to stand back, look at history, ask what is important, it matters not that only one of my relatives died in France, what matters is that he lost his life, ten days in France, three stays in a field hospital. Two woundings, one gassing. A bit off topic, sorry, but I cannot change the attitude of the majority, that is the job of the politician.

 

 

Edited by LadyG

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2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

When the hordes visit Blackpool, they keep the economy of the town going, thus avoiding business failures and mass unemployment.

 

There has already been a failure of public resolve to follow guidelines. The guidelines are still there to follow, if anyone feels like following them. For various reasons, for the economy or hedonism, death is not a top concern. I still will be treating everyone as a leper, but that's my way and my personal behaviour, under the circumstances. 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am trying to educate those who will not be educated, yes I am exposing myself to your critique: somewhere about six months ago I wrote a note, setailing progress of behaviours, it was the first day of lockdown

Sic days of adjustment 

Six weeks of compliance

Six months in, public unrest.

I was in Sheffield teo weeks ago, the pilice riot van with full complement, and two police horses, escorting a load of men, not the sons of steelworkers in their early twenties, demonstrating their right to demonstrate by parading snd shouting snd throwing placards about.

What as their protest?

Guess

Why are you trying to educate anyone?

 

Is it your job?

 

 

24 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Can I take it you are a half wit?

You are correct.

I am reminded of the war films which told us of so many young men  who went off to war, amid cheering and full public support.

And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda (song)

......  sometimes we have to stand back, look at history, ask what is important, it matters not that only one of my relatives died in France, what matters is that he lost his life, ten days in France, three stays in a field hospital. Two woundings, one gassing. A bit off topic, sorry, but I cannot change the attitude of the majority, that is the job of the politician.

 

 

Is that your happy thought for the day?

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The lack of adherence to the regulations or guidelines (whichever they are) comes down to two reasons.

 

(1) Complete lack of leadership, especially no leading by example;

(2) A sense of entitlement in the "me first" society we now have.

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8 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

The lack of adherence to the regulations or guidelines (whichever they are) comes down to two reasons.

 

(1) Complete lack of leadership, especially no leading by example;

(2) A sense of entitlement in the "me first" society we now have.

 

I can agree with number two. The leadership one is not cut and dry. To have really made the first choice work, jackboots would have been needed. Heavy-handed policing was almost the first thing to be criticised. 

 

 

 

Edited by Higgs

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11 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

The lack of adherence to the regulations or guidelines (whichever they are) comes down to two reasons.

 

(1) Complete lack of leadership, especially no leading by example;

(2) A sense of entitlement in the "me first" society we now have.

That is also true, but if you know it, and I know it and Higgs knows it, we can persuade Nicknorman, but we can't change NC, and we need the NC's of this world to change, it's been done before, smoking in pubs, buses, trains has been stopped.

Unfortunately, impetus has been lost, and our collective fates are now in the lap of the Gods.

I may be unlucky and get the disease, after all I can never be sure, but it is very inconvenient to live like this, very stressful, and in my opinion it should not have been necessary. Thousands will die, millions inconvenienced, just because joe public wants to ignore the basic rules.

If you don't like the rules, why not pick up the idea of those idiots kn Sheffield two weeks ago, using valuable police resources, and gathering in a group pf about a hundred, protesting the law of mask wearing in shops, some idea of restriction of human rights, try that defence when arrested for drunk driving......

 

Edited by LadyG

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59 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

There are two factors at play, the science around the virus transmission, and the economy.

 

The bottom line is that when you visit your mother, you don’t contribute to the economy. When the hordes visit Blackpool, they keep the economy of the town going, thus avoiding business failures and mass unemployment.

Sad but true :(

 

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I have a scientific training, I understand disease and it's spread.

 

With your scientific training I'm surprised you haven't found a cure. :)

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Can I take it you are a half wit, by which I mean you think the disease is not affecting you or yours, so you don't need to change your behaviour OR THAT OF OTHER PEOPLE. 

 

I must admit that if I see someone not abiding by the guidance, I just keep well away from them and in no way do I consider it my job to try to change their behaviour.  In fact, if I see anyone breaking the law ( eg by speeding in their car) I don't think it is my job to get them to slow down. Good grief, if I did that I would spend my life looking for folk not "behaving" and telling them to mend their ways.  What a sad life that would be. 

With Covid, as with many other things, I just do what I think is right and what keeps me safe and leave others to do their own thing, although I do avoid them 🙂 

 

 

haggis

 

 

Edited by haggis
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2 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

You've already remarked, that without full public support of the precautionary guidelines, you cannot have an overly optimistic containment expectation. There's no full support of guidelines. A higher casualty rate will be an expected norm, maybe an accepted norm, without/before it is felt the situation demands resorting to another lockdown.   

 

 

I don't think snother lockdown is going to work, in my opinion it will not be proposed. The Public won't comply, I could not blame them.

There is not an endless pot of gold, I don't think we will recover the economy in the next ten years, and probably still paying the debt, and that is assuming this is the one and the only pandemic, with the current population explosion worldwide, these once in a lifetime events will become twice in a lifetime, let's hope it does not go exponential!

Edited by LadyG

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50 minutes ago, haggis said:

I must admit that if I see someone not abiding by the guidance, I just keep well away from them and in no way do I consider it my job to try to change their behaviour.  In fact, if I see anyone breaking the law ( eg by speeding in their car) I don't think it is my job to get them to slow down. Good grief, if I did that I would spend my life looking for folk not "behaving" and telling them to mend their ways.  What a sad life that would be. 

With Covid, as with many other things, I just do what I think is right and what keeps me safe and leave others to do their own thing, although I do avoid them 🙂 

 

 

haggis

 

 

I remember on the outer isles (1980) where a rather well oiled old chap was helped in to his car, it was explaned he would not make it home otherwise,, that was true enough, and it was a single track road with steep ditches either side , no one would be coming towards the pub at that time of night!

I don't tell people what to do if they don't get in to my bubble, but if they step within one or two metres I will back off if I can, if they persist, I will tell them what to do! I am polite with my first comment, but not with my second.

The trouble with a virulent invisible disease is just that .......... I live in a country where policing is concensual, there is no martial law on the streets, unlike Wuhan, where as I recal, the disease kicked off, and presumably took hold. I don't think the police can do anything other than cause annoyance to all concerned, how do they deal with raves, or  groups of seven (not sure if that is a science based rule, unlikely)

Edited by LadyG

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7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I don't think snother lockdown is going to work, in my opinion it will not be proposed. The Public won't comply, I could not blame them.

There is not an endless pot of gold,

 

There is no endless pot of hope that the generations they've been training to be Me-ists can suddenly become Us-ists. 

 

 

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