Jump to content

Electric Boats


peterboat

Featured Posts

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

And like trains should be called diesel electric

But don't diesel electric trains need the diesel engine running all the time? The term 'hybrid' seems perfectly acceptable for cars with electric motors, battery storage and an internal combustion engine. Why not the same for 'electric' boats?

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Markblox said:

I'm sure someone will be along soon to diss it and make out it's the same as a boat with a diesel engine because it has a genny.

 

Unlikely, because Ian has never refered to it as 'all electric'.

 

The propulsion system has been discussed on here previously and well known. I think most of us are looking forward to seeing it in the water and running. I haven’t heard any body 'diss' it, if they have I have missed it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

But don't diesel electric trains need the diesel engine running all the time? The term 'hybrid' seems perfectly acceptable for cars with electric motors, battery storage and an internal combustion engine. Why not the same for 'electric' boats?

Which is what I always call them, because it's what they are until canalside charging is widespread. Only people pretending they don't rely on a diesel generator call them "electric"... 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ours is a series hybrid. People often ask if it’s electric when they don’t hear an engine, and my reply is ‘yes, with a generator’. It is just semantics…. I don’t try to judge whether they are asking ‘is it electric propulsion?’ or ‘do you have no diesel engine?’  I could more specifically tell them it’s a series hybrid but I’m pretty sure that would be lost on the majority of bystanders! 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But don't diesel electric trains need the diesel engine running all the time? The term 'hybrid' seems perfectly acceptable for cars with electric motors, battery storage and an internal combustion engine. Why not the same for 'electric' boats?

Because the owners want to appear greener than green. By calling it what it is, a Hybrid  it damages their green credibility.

Its only a green  electric boat if it runs only off solar, even plugging into the mains doesn't guarantee no CO2 generation  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Loddon said:

Because the owners want to appear greener than green. By calling it what it is, a Hybrid  it damages their green credibility.

Its only a green  electric boat if it runs only off solar, even plugging into the mains doesn't guarantee no CO2 generation  ;)

So greenness is relative, well I never.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, IanD said:

 

It is, if you think that a noisy diesel running inefficiently for 8 hours a day and a heavily silenced generator running efficiently for at most 1 hour per day -- or not at all in some cases -- are equivalent... 😉

Sure, there are plenty of noisy diesels out there, but some of them are wonderfully quiet. Of course not as silent as may be possible with electric, but a gentle 'purrrrr' that is not intrusive at all.

 

Electric will give you a slightly quieter experience than with a well silenced direct diesel driven NB and it may save on fuel consumption, but unless you buy everything pre-used and are competent to design and install everything yourself, how much more will it cost than a simple diesel driven boat? 

 

How does the price of a cocooned super silent diesel generator compare to that of a propulsion diesel engine?

 

That aside, the main reason why I wouldn't consider an electric narrowboat is the thought of having to go slowly everywhere. People who can only manage a few weeks each year on their boat and who want to experience as much of the canal network as possible during that time, want to travel at 4mph when it's appropriate to do so and over a months motoring, any saving made by going electric would be inconsequential when compared to the other costs of ownership.

 

For people with deep pockets who spend most of the year aboard and have the time to pootle slowly and silently everywhere I can see the attraction, but that's not me I'm afraid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, IanD said:

 

If you take the boat I'm having built as an example, it will run at full power (15kW/20hp) for something over 2 hours without running the generator (or allowing for any solar) -- and though 3kW is "normal cruising power" on a still canal, it would be pretty unusual to need full power for that long, even on the Trent or Ribble Link. Running the generator continuously roughly doubles full-power runtime to about 4 hours.

 

A generator is needed if you want to cruise all day for several days in a row -- propulsion use is typically 14kWh/day and solar yield is about 7kWh/day in summer, so about 1hr/day of generator running is needed. Also essential in winter when solar produces much less power (maybe 1.5kWh/day).

 

Until network-wide charging points are rolled out, an "electric" boat will need an onboard generator unless you travel slowly or not for several full days or only in summer.

I am going to Castleford on Monday, single handed through those big locks is a challenge especially with a dodgy knee and elbow. I expect to cruise 3 hours daily which is enough for me. 

I expect to get to castleford in a couple of weeks which is quick enough for a holiday, I have stuff to do onboard which will take a couple of hours daily and I have a puppy to walk twice a day. Will I need my genny I have no idea? But I will probably run it to heat water for a shower every other day as well as powering the washer/dishwasher and 2 chargers how long? Under an hour gets me hot water easy enough. Once there its blacking and other work for a week in the dry dock happy days 🤣🤣🤣

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Sure, there are plenty of noisy diesels out there, but some of them are wonderfully quiet. Of course not as silent as may be possible with electric, but a gentle 'purrrrr' that is not intrusive at all.

 

Electric will give you a slightly quieter experience than with a well silenced direct diesel driven NB and it may save on fuel consumption, but unless you buy everything pre-used and are competent to design and install everything yourself, how much more will it cost than a simple diesel driven boat? 

 

How does the price of a cocooned super silent diesel generator compare to that of a propulsion diesel engine?

 

That aside, the main reason why I wouldn't consider an electric narrowboat is the thought of having to go slowly everywhere. People who can only manage a few weeks each year on their boat and who want to experience as much of the canal network as possible during that time, want to travel at 4mph when it's appropriate to do so and over a months motoring, any saving made by going electric would be inconsequential when compared to the other costs of ownership.

 

For people with deep pockets who spend most of the year aboard and have the time to pootle slowly and silently everywhere I can see the attraction, but that's not me I'm 

The problem is diesel is getting expensive very expensive and isn't likely ever to get cheap again. Legislation will force all new boats to be serial hybrids with solar as a matter of course, so change is coming. Interesting times ahead 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

The problem is diesel is getting expensive very expensive and isn't likely ever to get cheap again. Legislation will force all new boats to be serial hybrids with solar as a matter of course, so change is coming. Interesting times ahead 

It is indeed, but how much could you save in a months cruising by having an electric boat as opposed to a diesel boat and how much extra will an electric boat cost to buy? 

 

This figure will move gradually in favour of electric boats with time, but I'm guessing that any current savings are tiny compared to the additional cost of buying an electric boat and that the figures won't look favourable for many, many years.

 

For many, it makes most sense to save a lot of money by sticking with a diesel engine for propulsion, by all means one with excellent sound attenuation and silencing, and spending a small amount of the money saved on a bit of extra diesel. You'll have an uncomplicated, relatively inexpensive and easy to maintain setup and bags of power for cruising at the speed of your choice for as long as you wish  within the regulations; fighting against rivers in flood etc.

 

You'll probably still have enough saved money for several exotic winter holidays to warm sunny parts of the world.

 

Don't get me wrong, one day electric will either make perfect sense or be the only allowed option, but when that day comes, boating may only be the preserve of the very well off, which would be a great shame.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

Don't you find though, that sometimes you let one by, and then you end up stuck behind them as once they have no target ahead they slow down? Also theres an amount of slipstreaming i think, which aids the boat behind in catching up.

 

^^^This^^^

 

Never, ever, EVER let a boat go past you if you have any sort of a schedule to maintain. Speed yourself up instead. 

 

No matter what the circumstances, once past they will slow down, pisss about in locks, fcuk about and generally delay you mercilessly in every way imaginable. Time and again. 

 

DAMHIK.

 

 

 

  • Haha 2
  • Horror 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, MtB said:

 

^^^This^^^

 

Never, ever, EVER let a boat go past you if you have any sort of a schedule to maintain. Speed yourself up instead. 

 

No matter what the circumstances, once past they will slow down, pisss about in locks, fcuk about and generally delay you mercilessly in every way imaginable. Time and again. 

 

DAMHIK.

 

 

 

In all my years of boating I have never experienced what you describe. Could it be your attitude towards boats that catch up with you that irritates them and results in the behaviour you describe. Do you perhaps slow right down when passing is impossible to annoy them and when the waterway opens up and passing would be possible, do you speed up and position yourself such as to prevent the manoeuvre?

 

When I am just pottering and another boat catches me I acknowledge them and indicate to them that I will pull to one side. As they pass they invariably wave and thank me and disappear into the distance, never to be seen again. They are happy and I don't have a boat right behind me getting increasingly frustrated, so we both benefit; try it sometime!

  • Greenie 1
  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And, he has a composting toilet sorry waterless separating toilet

 

Edit to amend and use the correct terminology

Sorry to disappoint but It's a beta 43, Aqua Drive, soundproof compartment and hospital silencer, a very nice lithium system and 1.4KWp pf solar.  Oh, and it's got a black tank.  Despite what some might say, not nearly as quiet as electric.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, MtB said:

 

^^^This^^^

 

Never, ever, EVER let a boat go past you if you have any sort of a schedule to maintain. Speed yourself up instead. 

 

No matter what the circumstances, once past they will slow down, pisss about in locks, fcuk about and generally delay you mercilessly in every way imaginable. Time and again. 

 

DAMHIK.

 

 

 

Was that you in front of us a couple of weeks ago just outside Braunston who, when we let a cruiser past us, steadfastly refused to do the same? :D 

 

Didn’t see how it turned out as we moored shortly afterwards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Was that you in front of us a couple of weeks ago just outside Braunston who, when we let a cruiser past us, steadfastly refused to do the same? :D 

 

Didn’t see how it turned out as we moored shortly afterwards

 

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

In all my years of boating I have never experienced what you describe. Could it be your attitude towards boats that catch up with you that irritates them and results in the behaviour you describe. Do you perhaps slow right down when passing is impossible to annoy them and when the waterway opens up and passing would be possible, do you speed up and position yourself such as to prevent the manoeuvre?

 

When I am just pottering and another boat catches me I acknowledge them and indicate to them that I will pull to one side. As they pass they invariably wave and thank me and disappear into the distance, never to be seen again. They are happy and I don't have a boat right behind me getting increasingly frustrated, so we both benefit; try it sometime!

 

 

I think you both overlooked the most important sentence in my post. I absolutely do not go out of my way to delay other boaters.

 

"Speed yourself up instead",  is the solution I suggested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

 

I think you both overlooked the most important sentence in my post. I absolutely do not go out of my way to delay other boaters.

 

"Speed yourself up instead",  is the solution I suggested.

You should not feel forced to speed up any more that a boat that follows you should be forced to slow down, unless of course it isn't safe to pass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

 

I think you both overlooked the most important sentence in my post. I absolutely do not go out of my way to delay other boaters.

 

"Speed yourself up instead",  is the solution I suggested.

I overlooked nothing, hence the smilie ;) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, MtB said:

No matter what the circumstances, once past they will slow down, pisss about in locks, fcuk about and generally delay you mercilessly in every way imaginable. Time and again. 

You stated the above and used the statement to put others off from being courteous and letting boats who wish to travel faster go past. In my experience the statement is wrong and to discourage people from allowing others to pass is definitely wrong, so for me this was the most important message in your post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

It is indeed, but how much could you save in a months cruising by having an electric boat as opposed to a diesel boat and how much extra will an electric boat cost to buy? 

 

This figure will move gradually in favour of electric boats with time, but I'm guessing that any current savings are tiny compared to the additional cost of buying an electric boat and that the figures won't look favourable for many, many years.

 

For many, it makes most sense to save a lot of money by sticking with a diesel engine for propulsion, by all means one with excellent sound attenuation and silencing, and spending a small amount of the money saved on a bit of extra diesel. You'll have an uncomplicated, relatively inexpensive and easy to maintain setup and bags of power for cruising at the speed of your choice for as long as you wish  within the regulations; fighting against rivers in flood etc.

 

You'll probably still have enough saved money for several exotic winter holidays to warm sunny parts of the world.

 

Don't get me wrong, one day electric will either make perfect sense or be the only allowed option, but when that day comes, boating may only be the preserve of the very well off, which would be a great shame.

 

 

 

 

I built my system myself it wasn't hard or expensive, the genny is a late addition bought with 4 hours on the clock hopefully it will hardly be used as I would like my HVO to last until I give up boating.  Savings don't just stop at diesel, servicing and 25% reduced license all add up rapidly. My system including the genny cost less than a engine gearbox for the boat. Solar is extra but was so cheap why wouldn't you have it? Especially in summer when the drive solar heats water when not moving 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a general observation / question, not in response to any particular post. 

 

I’ve seen quite a lot of discussion about how the efficiency of electric boats varies with speed. There is debate about the exact figures, but is generally agreed that a small change in speed (eg from 3 to 4 mph) makes a big difference in power needed (not far off double?). 

I haven’t seen much discussion about this in regards to conventional boats. If the above it true for electric drive, presumably the same difference in speed with a diesel drive will result in a roughly similar jump in fuel consumption?

 

I’m thinking about this because a) diesel is so expensive now and b) most people seem to want to be greener, even if they don’t agree on the best way to do it. But unless I’m missing something, couldn’t cruising a bit slower halve both a boater’s fuel costs and carbon footprint?

  • Love 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Thames Bhaji said:

This is a general observation / question, not in response to any particular post. 

 

I’ve seen quite a lot of discussion about how the efficiency of electric boats varies with speed. There is debate about the exact figures, but is generally agreed that a small change in speed (eg from 3 to 4 mph) makes a big difference in power needed (not far off double?). 

I haven’t seen much discussion about this in regards to conventional boats. If the above it true for electric drive, presumably the same difference in speed with a diesel drive will result in a roughly similar jump in fuel consumption?

 

I’m thinking about this because a) diesel is so expensive now and b) most people seem to want to be greener, even if they don’t agree on the best way to do it. But unless I’m missing something, couldn’t cruising a bit slower halve both a boater’s fuel costs and carbon footprint?

 

 

In principle you are correct.

 

I have recorded the fuel used by my cruiser (I know its not a NB and that there is a huge difference in increasing revs in shallow water where the stern squats into the mud and you do not actually go any faster).

 

It is an 11 tonne, twin 140hp engined displacement boat and EACH engine uses :

 

 

Example 1 : At an 8 knot cruise at 2000 rpm (80% of WOT)

 

 2000 rpm at 8 knots= 13.8 litres per hour

 

 Example 2 : At a 5 knot cruise at 1500 rpm (57% of WOT)

 

1500 rpm at 5 knots = 5.2 litres per hour.

 

You can actually plot a graph of rpm vs fuel consumption from the manufacturers figures - it will give you an idea  but is not as accurate as actually measuring your flow rate.

 

 

Screenshot (1324).png

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.