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RCR , new routing app


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I received a facebook notification about the new RCR (River Canal Rescue) water navigation app.  I think its still in development stages but having downloaded it, it looks quite good.  It can be downloaded via Googleplay , called Waternav Beta.

Ive not put a route in yet but it certainly pinpointed my location.

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2 minutes ago, colmac said:

I just go boating with the occasional glance at Nicholsons to see where I am, never felt the need for anything more accurate than that, am I missing out here ?

The app I've mentioned is more up to date than Nicholsons, it shows you exactly where you are and even displays stoppages.  I can't remember what it cost but I think it was either free or just a few pence, so cheaper than nicolsons.  Oh, it also gives a what3words reference which may be useful in an emergency.  When you zoom right into it, it shows a satellite view which is handy sometimes too.

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This new incarnation is only available for Android at the moment so I can’t try it, but I would be interested in hearing how the route planning works and if it can be used as an alternative to canalplan for timings.  Canalplan does all I want, but even with the latest changes it is not the best UI on a phone.

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613 MB download after you've installed the app.. I hope their map update process uses deltas

 

Seems to do some very odd things. I thought Canalplan gets some of its icons on its maps a little cluttered as you zoom in and out but even with just the 3 basic canal options turned on it seems to be swamped with icons as you zoom out.

 

Place search seems to be based on miles from current location or centre of map.  So if I'm sitting in Cheltenham and want to look at Beeston Stone Lock I need to know how far away it is, and also exactly how it's spelt - so no searching like you have in canalplan.

 

Route planning is a completely manual process with you dragging markers on the map. So you can't actually do "What does this look like as a route" unless you know exactly where you are going and spend your time dragging round the map. Which isn't really much more than Canalplan V 1.0 in 1981 had (where you had to know the place and enter it's ID from a look up table)

Edited by StephenA
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16 minutes ago, StephenA said:

613 MB download after you've installed the app.. I hope their map update process uses deltas

 

Seems to do some very odd things. I thought Canalplan gets some of its icons on its maps a little cluttered as you zoom in and out but even with just the 3 basic canal options turned on it seems to be swamped with icons as you zoom out.

 

Place search seems to be based on miles from current location or centre of map.  So if I'm sitting in Cheltenham and want to look at Beeston Stone Lock I need to know how far away it is, and also exactly how it's spelt - so no searching like you have in canalplan.

 

Route planning is a completely manual process with you dragging markers on the map. So you can't actually do "What does this look like as a route" unless you know exactly where you are going and spend your time dragging round the map. Which isn't really much more than Canalplan V 1.0 in 1981 had (where you had to know the place and enter it's ID from a look up table)

I found I couldn't create a route to go up the Aston flight, from Salford junction it only wanted to go up through Garrisons. At that point I uninstalled it.

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  • 5 months later...

The old eCanal maps still work on my neolithic tablet, which is why I delay upgrading for as long as possible. Arthur's Second Law states that every technological improvement makes things less user friendly and more inefficient.

This is why the old, strip map Nicholsons are better than the new ones, and infinitely more use than an app.

ETA except they're wrong about the shops!

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The old eCanal maps still work on my neolithic tablet, which is why I delay upgrading for as long as possible. Arthur's Second Law states that every technological improvement makes things less user friendly and more inefficient.

This is why the old, strip map Nicholsons are better than the new ones, and infinitely more use than an app.

ETA except they're wrong about the shops!

 

also nowadays, apps giveth with one hand and expect a monthly subscription in the other

 

i know it’s in beta, but it’s slow to load the overlays and can’t remember it’s download status.

 

i’ll be sticking with Nicholsons, Waterway Routes & Google maps for shops n’that

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6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

That's really what a map is. They don't do much else!

The old one did that plus give speed readout and did distance measurement, but only in a straight line.  If was expecting that it would have at lest done distance and lock count measurement between points.  Other than that it does not have much over Google maps, and shop info etc is going to tend to be out of date.  Do you see value it it as it stands?

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Ok so I've downloaded the Waternav app from RCR, onto an iphone XR. It took a loooong time to download the data.  So I've had a look over it and I'm not really impressed.  It looks really cluttered due to all the icons for various business (restaurants etc).  These are frequently wrongly located or out of date too.  There's no functionality with those icons either.  you can't tap on them for more info (review, website etc), all you get is a name.  The mapping runs slow and is glitchy, probably due to how data hungry it is.  The actual canal features displayed aren't great either.  It totally fails to show tunnels and canalside services are frequently wrong or in the wrong place. There's no function to add or remove layers either to help make it more useable.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I have the opencanalmap app.  This is much better and more useful.  It doesn't have the downloading or data demand issues and it has more genuinely useful info for while you're actually cruising (especially the stoppage info).  The mapping is much clearer so you can quickly see what's coming up.  Nothing on the map is tappable but that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO.  The app doesn't tell you anything about bankside businesses , but I'd tend to look them up on google maps or the CRT map once moored anyway.  The info on sani stations is more detailled and more accurate.

 

Overall I give opencanalmap 7/10 and the new RCR app 5/10.  I may change my score after using it when cruising.

 

I've never used ecanal maps so can't comment on them, but it seems to be that there's scope for a much better app which embeds much more functionality than either choice.  Imagine seeing a boatyard up ahead on the map, clicking on it and seeing how well reviewed it is, what services it offers, how much it charges for diesel etc.  Imagine being able to pin 2 points on the map and then getting a route planner like google maps does.

 

That's enough rambling for now.

9 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

That's really what a map is. They don't do much else!

Have you heard of google maps?  Are you aware of how much it can do?

Edited by doratheexplorer
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On 25/09/2020 at 09:09, colmac said:

I just go boating with the occasional glance at Nicholsons to see where I am, never felt the need for anything more accurate than that, am I missing out here ?

 

Possibly, but without using it first you will never know.  By-the-way what's Nicholsons? 

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5 minutes ago, Idle Days said:

 

Possibly, but without using it first you will never know.  By-the-way what's Nicholsons? 

Nicholsons make map books like thisCollins/Nicholson Waterways Guides 4 – Four Counties and the Welsh Canals:  Amazon.co.uk: Collins Uk: Books

 

I use them a lot.  But when I'm cruising I find the opencanalmap app useful because:

 

1.  It shows me exactly where  I am.

2.  No fumbling about with pages.

3.  Fits in my pocket so doesn't get blown about by wind.

4.  My phone is more water resistant than a paper book.

5.  It tells me if there's a current stoppage up ahead.

6.  The services info is more up to date.

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1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

Have you heard of google maps?  Are you aware of how much it can do?

Surprisingly, yes. I was referring, in a jocular sort of way, to paper maps. Although online ones don't do much else, either, except tell you where you are and what's about.

If the RCR one is based on the old eCanal, I think it has, to coin a phrase, missed the boat. The great advantage of them, and why I still use them, is because they ran offline, but now that most people have permanent web access (I don't), that's irrelevant. Off line maps get out of date, ones based on open street map don't.

The eMaps were very clunky in operation too, the tap for info worked poorly, the log function never did (at least on my Android) and as you say, the data took an age to download and as far as I know never got updated.

And whatever you run them on isn't going to like rain, and you can't see the screen in sunlight. Again, as you say, Google or OpenStreet is better for facilities like shops and pubs.

 

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12 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Surprisingly, yes. I was referring, in a jocular sort of way, to paper maps. Although online ones don't do much else, either, except tell you where you are and what's about.

If the RCR one is based on the old eCanal, I think it has, to coin a phrase, missed the boat. The great advantage of them, and why I still use them, is because they ran offline, but now that most people have permanent web access (I don't), that's irrelevant. Off line maps get out of date, ones based on open street map don't.

The eMaps were very clunky in operation too, the tap for info worked poorly, the log function never did (at least on my Android) and as you say, the data took an age to download and as far as I know never got updated.

And whatever you run them on isn't going to like rain, and you can't see the screen in sunlight. Again, as you say, Google or OpenStreet is better for facilities like shops and pubs.

 

I have a hiking app called viewranger which works offline.  That's very useful since mobile signal is sketchy in the mountains.  But it's actually pretty rare to have no signal while boating.  My phone has no problems with either rain or sunlight though.  Maybe your handset is the problem there?  If it's tipping down, then the touchscreen becomes less responsive, but a paper maps doesn't work well in those conditions either.

10 minutes ago, frangar said:

The app reflects RCR core values.....that all I’m saying!!

I think RCR are pretty great.  I just don't rate their app.

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4 hours ago, john6767 said:

  If was expecting that it would have at lest done distance and lock count measurement between points.

 

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

 Imagine being able to pin 2 points on the map and then getting a route planner like google maps does.

 

Canalplan will do that for you. And give you an estimated journey time as well. Works on computer or smartphone. Shows your route on a google map. And it's free!

https://canalplan.org.uk/

Edited by David Mack
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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

 

 

Canalplan will do that for you. And give you an estimated journey time as well. Works on computer or smartphone. Shows your route on a google map. And it's free!

https://canalplan.org.uk/

I know, but it's not a canal mapping app.  It's a route planning website.  You cannot bring up a map and plot a route by dropping pins, which would be a useful thing while actually steering.  The apps we've been talking about are also free.

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17 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The old eCanal maps still work on my neolithic tablet, which is why I delay upgrading for as long as possible. Arthur's Second Law states that every technological improvement makes things less user friendly and more inefficient.

This is why the old, strip map Nicholsons are better than the new ones, and infinitely more use than an app.

ETA except they're wrong about the shops!

Only if you are only interested in the canal itself and not anything in the immediate surroundings (BTW I have a fairly complete set of the strip maps from the 1960's - the Canal Guide ones were, in some respects, a better option) But then, I'm a dedicated fanatic for OS mapping and have been since I was immersed in it as a Wolf Cub - I think I still have a map of an imaginary place that I had to draw to pass a test, showing the use of as many conventional symbols as possible!

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