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Badly installed oil filter


Colin Brendan

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Hi All. I have a badly installed fuel filter (old school element type) with not enough space to fully extract the centre bottle. I can replace the element fine, but I can't fully extract the centre bolt to replace the copper washer at the top. So far it has sealed ok and I haven't needed to replace it.

 

Eventually I will reposition the fuel filter, but in the meantime if it doesn't seal is it ok to smear it in some Hylomar blue or similar?

 

Any help on this is much appreciated

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1 minute ago, Colin Brendan said:

Hi All. I have a badly installed fuel filter (old school element type) with not enough space to fully extract the centre bottle. I can replace the element fine, but I can't fully extract the centre bolt to replace the copper washer at the top. So far it has sealed ok and I haven't needed to replace it.

 

If it leaks, move the unit - even if only temporarily - far enough to get the bolt out.  Until then, don't worry about it ...

 

 

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i don't understand this because if you can get the element out I would have expected that you could lift the whole bowl assembly out so you can then pull the bolt out and change the washer. All I can think of is that the area is very congested with stuff peripheral to the engine itself. Any chance of a photo because at present the engine is not in a sub-forum so can't be identified.

 

I think if it were mine and is did not seal I would put a number of turns of gas PTFE tape around the bolt before tightening. I can't see Hylomar will do any harm. 

 

If this is the typical filter with a domed end that the bolt goes through for goodness sake avoid overtightening at all costs. It will invert the dome around the bolt hole and then nothing will seal it.

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Hi Tony, 

The problem is the engine dials/control box has been installed to close above the filter housing so there isn't enough room to fully extract the bolt out of the top of the filter housing. I'll try and get a photo.

 

It sounds like you think PTFE tape (yellow one?) would be more effective than hylomar.

 

Can I actually use PTFE tape as a long-term solution? Applying a fresh load each time? Or is that asking for trouble?

 

Thanks,

 

Colin

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When I first came to this forum in 2011 I think it was and saw Tony Brooks posts I didn't know who he was or what he knew and did.  He would sign off with TB which I thought stood for ''Teddy Boy''. But I don't think like myself he is quite old enough to have been one. Tony, do you wear drain pipe pants, bumper shoes, a shortie overcoat with black velvet collar and have a Tony Curtis or DA hair style.   No offense intended.  :):giggles:

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1 hour ago, bizzard said:

When I first came to this forum in 2011 I think it was and saw Tony Brooks posts I didn't know who he was or what he knew and did.  He would sign off with TB which I thought stood for ''Teddy Boy''. But I don't think like myself he is quite old enough to have been one. Tony, do you wear drain pipe pants, bumper shoes, a shortie overcoat with black velvet collar and have a Tony Curtis or DA hair style.   No offense intended.  :):giggles:

No but I did have a Lamberetta scooter and went to Southend to visit relatives, No mod, no rocker, too busy mugging up for exams and saving to get married eventually. Wear old boy type double pleat trousers or at east "relaxed fit" and always did, short back and sides but varying between tapered and straight across at the back.

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1 hour ago, Colin Brendan said:

Hi Tony, 

The problem is the engine dials/control box has been installed to close above the filter housing so there isn't enough room to fully extract the bolt out of the top of the filter housing. I'll try and get a photo.

 

It sounds like you think PTFE tape (yellow one?) would be more effective than hylomar.

 

Can I actually use PTFE tape as a long-term solution? Applying a fresh load each time? Or is that asking for trouble?

 

Thanks,

 

Colin

Much as I thought - and idiot fitter left all who followed to live with his cock up. Don't bother to send pictures I can well image in the problem.

 

I think the thick PTFE (is it in a yellow reel) will be less messy and as it will be around the bolt as well I suspect it would be easier to get a seal but if you have Hylomar then try it and fall back to PTFE it it still leaks.  I think Hylomar will need reapplyingevery filter change but a good wad of PTFE may do several.

 

If your centre bolt has a dished lower washer on it with the copper washer between that and the bolt I have used a thick O ring between the dished washer and filter housing but that will require getting the bolt out. How easy will it be to reposition the control box a little.

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  • 1 year later...
On 21/09/2020 at 12:23, Colin Brendan said:

Hi All. I have a badly installed fuel filter (old school element type) with not enough space to fully extract the centre bottle. I can replace the element fine, but I can't fully extract the centre bolt to replace the copper washer at the top. So far it has sealed ok and I haven't needed to replace it.

 

Eventually I will reposition the fuel filter, but in the meantime if it doesn't seal is it ok to smear it in some Hylomar blue or similar?

 

Any help on this is much appreciated

 

If anyone else has a problem with a CAV 296 or the tight location of the unit, as is the case here, try fitting a spin on conversion kit, as that will make it much easier to change the filter. It's also possible to replace the CAV head with one that includes a primer pump:

LUCAS CAV296 FUEL FILTER HEAD C/W HAND PRIMER 14MM PORTS | eBay  

Conversion kit:

CAV fuel conversion kit screw type filter short - ideal for tight spaces | eBay   (ASAP also list this kit and associated Bosch filters in addition to a spin on oil filter conversion kit that I also fitted when upgrading the systems on my donkey).

 

PS: There should be no real need to use PTFE tape if you use the correct soft Copper washers, although I also use a drip or two of Locktight, but don't use it on the vent bolt as it will make it difficult to undo. That is where I might use PTFE tape.

Edited by TNLI
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51 minutes ago, TNLI said:

 

If anyone else has a problem with a CAV 296 or the tight location of the unit, as is the case here, try fitting a spin on conversion kit, as that will make it much easier to change the filter. It's also possible to replace the CAV head with one that includes a primer pump:

LUCAS CAV296 FUEL FILTER HEAD C/W HAND PRIMER 14MM PORTS | eBay  

Conversion kit:

CAV fuel conversion kit screw type filter short - ideal for tight spaces | eBay   (ASAP also list this kit and associated Bosch filters in addition to a spin on oil filter conversion kit that I also fitted when upgrading the systems on my donkey).

 

PS: There should be no real need to use PTFE tape if you use the correct soft Copper washers, although I also use a drip or two of Locktight, but don't use it on the vent bolt as it will make it difficult to undo. That is where I might use PTFE tape.

Dragging up Zombie threads again, you really are a pain. why don't you take up Base Jumping or something equally dangerous instead of wasting our time on here?

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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Dragging up Zombie threads again, you really are a pain. why don't you take up Base Jumping or something equally dangerous instead of wasting our time on here?

Aren't you being a bit over-stroppy here?

He has added some useful info and links that may well help others using the search facility in future.

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29 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

Aren't you being a bit over-stroppy here?

He has added some useful info and links that may well help others using the search facility in future.

Have you seen all the other zombie threads he has reopened and the amount of apparent bullshine he posts? It has been suggested that he gets the info that he posts as the only answer from unverified internet sites rather than qualifications and experience and although I have never said so I have that opinion as well. In many ways he exhibits trolling tenancies that the mods do not feel technically qualified to judge.

 

He seems all but incapable of starting his own topics and just adds misinformation and confusion to other's topics.

 

Incidentally, the photo of the fuel filter he bought and posted gives me cause to suspect it is not a straight off and on job, from the photo it looks as if a banjo on the leak off pipe might need replacing as well, but I can not be sure of that.  So just maybe not such a useful link.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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3 hours ago, Rebotco said:

Aren't you being a bit over-stroppy here?

He has added some useful info and links that may well help others using the search facility in future.

Stroppy? Moi? The man's a buffoon.

He is using the search function to find old threads. Then adding misleading information he has "gleaned" from the internet, not experience, that may well cause harm to someone.

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8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Stroppy? Moi? The man's a buffoon.

He is using the search function to find old threads. Then adding misleading information he has "gleaned" from the internet, not experience, that may well cause harm to someone.

 

Especially as I have been investigating Total Base Number when applied to engine oil and it seems his claims about the important of an oil with a high TBN does not confer all the advantages he claims and since the introduction of low sulphur diesel and modern additive packs some engine manufacturers are reducing the TBN of their oils and seem to be saying TBN is no longer a reliable indication for oil analysis. In fact one source warns high TBN oils may deposit excess ash in the engine.

 

I am only going by what I have read and considered how well it accorded with what I studied for my C&G Technicians qualifications (was said to be the equivalent of an ONC) but it is enough to confirm my view that that poster is a danger to many more naive posters.

 

 

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If you want to know something about engine oil or fuel analysis you can ask me, because you don't seem to understand anything about TBN, For example although I always look up what the TBN is of a new oil is in the published PDS, most oil labs, (I use Blackstones), charge extra for a TBN test, so if you are trying to figure out if a used oil still had active detergents, the insolubles, (Mostly carbon), figure is of more interest, along with the TAN. which is based on how acidic the oil is. If you want to learn more about oil, Bob's The Oil Guy forum has a series of articles on their web site and you can also join and ask questions about various oils and even additives. 

Ash deposits only effect the exhaust system, (DPF units in particular), and they have resulted in a change in detergent content from Calcium to Magnesium based compounds in recent years. For an old diesel, the TBN needs to be near 10. Mobil Delvac, (Not an approved oil), has a TBN of 11, which is about as high as it goes. The Liqui Moly Super Nova 20w50 or 15w40 oils both have a TBN of 9. Good article about TBN:

Resource Room (pqiamerica.com)

 

This article is about TAN, which is of interest for used oil analysis:

Acid Number: A Comprehensive Guide (machinerylubrication.com)

 

What Are Insolubles? | Blackstone Laboratories (blackstone-labs.com)

 

PS: I was surprised that the PQ web site article says more diesel only oils have a TBN as high as 14, as I've never seen that high a figure before. 

Edited by TNLI
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Funny that a couple of major oil companies seem to have a different view as well as Detroit Diesels about high TBNs.

 

Of course Blackstone play up TBN testing, you have just said they charge extra for it.

 

As far as I can see the TBN number is on related to the oil's ability to neutralize acids. Nothing to do with detergent, noting to do with antioxidants, nothing to do with combating nitrate production, nothing to do with improving resistance to molecule sheer, nothing to do with resisting pressure or improving viscosity stabilization.

 

You have published so much misinformation since you joined the forum, seem to put great store by bright red engine paint and shiny rocker covers and so on, there is no way I can take anything you claim at face value. You can't even post without using a slang term for your engine.

 

Pleased you seem to confirm your ideas about oil seem to emanate from a web site.

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TBN does not relate directly to detergents but the oil companies do not publish figures for actual detergent content, so TBN is the best figure for how long an oil will last and that depends mostly on detergent content, even though the 2 are not directly connected.  Every manufacturer publishes an approved oil list and they might well indicate if they do not like oils that have a high Moly or TBN in addition to certain types of base stocks like full synthetics. Those comments are probably to do with large diesels that use ultra fine secondary oil filters and might relate to either to blocking the fine filter too quickly, that has nothing to do with older diesels like the BMC, unless they have a DPF exhaust filter as high TBN oils also produce ash in the exhaust.

I've not said anywhere that you should pay for TBN testing, and obviously oil labs that charge extra for such tests do make biased comments about it.

 

It would be much better if TB could provide links to the associated articles, which is what I try to do. 

Edited by TNLI
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7 minutes ago, TNLI said:

I really would not pay any attention to what TB is saying about oil, the post above is nonsense from start to finish. TBN does not relate directly to detergents but it the oil companies do not publish figures for actual detergent content, so TBN is the best figure for how long an oil will last and that depends mostly on detergent content, even though the 2 are not directly connected.  Every manufacturer publishes an approved oil list and they might well indicate if they do not like oils that have a high Moly or TBN in addition to certain types of base stocks like full synthetics. Those comments are probably to do with large diesels that use ultra fine secondary oil filters and might relate to blocking the fine filter too quickly, that has nothing to do with older diesels like the BMC.

I've not said anywhere that you should pay for TBN testing, and obviously oil labs that charge extra for such tests do make biased comments about it.

 

It would be much better if TB could stop commenting on subjects he has no idea about unless he can provide links to the associated articles, which is what I try to do. 

 

Actually no, it would be much better if you did if you cannot do it without discrediting others.

 

Tony has been giving good and reliable advice on here for years and has a background that gives him authority to speak.

 

You are entitled to give your opinions/advice too but it is for others to decide which advice to follow. You have no actual right to 'rubbish' the advice of others though. 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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2 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Actually no, it would be much better if you did if you cannot do it without discrediting others.

 

Tony has been giving good and reliable advice on here for years and has a background that gives him authority to speak.

 

You are entitled to give your opinions/advice too but it is for others to decide which advice to follow. You have no actual right to 'rubbish' the advice of others though. 

I agree TB does know the BMC engines very well and his advice is appreciated, but if it comes to oil or fuel, ask an expert as it's a very complex subject, and his comments about red diesel and oil have been incorrect. He also replies to every single post I make of any type in a negative manner, even before I finish editing it!

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6 minutes ago, TNLI said:

I agree TB does know the BMC engines very well and his advice is appreciated, but if it comes to oil or fuel, ask an expert as it's a very complex subject, and his comments about red diesel and oil have been incorrect. He also replies to every single post I make of any type in a negative manner, even before I finish editing it!

 

In your opinion.

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