Jump to content

Red Diesel Consultation About to Close - get your comments in.


Alan de Enfield

Featured Posts

10 minutes ago, MartynG said:

For what reason  ? 

 

To prove that the 'pink' that is in your tank was red, but since the cut off date you have only purchased white.

The receipts will show that it has been purchased from a fuel-reseller who cannot supply Red, so your bum is well covered.

 

If your tank is 'dipped' it will show as a 'Red' colour down to very low % levels of actual Red in the tank - I believe less than 1% Red is still reddish in colour. But it can be confirmed as to the actual % by the chemical 'marker' (not the dye) that is 'hidden' in the fuel.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

To prove that the 'pink' that is in your tank was red, but since the cut off date you have only purchased white.

The receipts will show that it has been purchased from a fuel-reseller who cannot supply Red, so your bum is well covered.

 

If your tank is 'dipped' it will show as a 'Red' colour down to very low % levels of actual Red in the tank - I believe less than 1% Red is still reddish in colour. But it can be confirmed as to the actual % by the chemical 'marker' (not the dye) that is 'hidden' in the fuel.

Why would you need to prove that ?

Who is going to be dipping the tanks  in boats ?

Even if checked at say 5 years after April 2022 and red diesel is found how can the checker know the fuel was not purchased before April 2022.

Plenty of boat hardly go anywhere as may have fuel in them that is years old.

8 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

To prove you have been filling up with white diesel as there will still be traces of red in your tank.

Who will require this proof ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Who will require this proof ? 

"Better to have and not to need, than need and not to have".

 

You are going to be buying fuel - why would you not want to retain the receipts 'Just in case'.

Are you starting to be affected by the apparent hatred of 'paperwork' increasingly found by users of the waterways ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I was under the impression it was Belgium who went to extremes on traces of Red Diesel.....  but a more relaxed view in other countries.

I think garage diesel is about £1.19 per litre, I seem to recal my last  (split) fuel worked out at 90p per l, over winter and lockdown I paid 85p, at a marina, so I would be paying an extra 30p per l, and of course, it's also 'the principle ', trying to be eco-friendly by using minimal fuel, and public transport.

That's on the basis you can buy diesel at the same price Tesco sell it for. When you consider you can buy red on the cut at the moment between 55p and 90p a ltr at 5% Vat and reduced duty what do you think they will charge for white. At todays prices I would guess between £1-20 to about £1-70

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That's on the basis you can buy diesel at the same price Tesco sell it for. When you consider you can buy red on the cut at the moment between 55p and 90p a ltr at 5% Vat and reduced duty what do you think they will charge for white. At todays prices I would guess between £1-20 to about £1-70

and I remember when it was 29p a litre!  I think we will just have to accept that boating will become more expensive but to me it will still be worth while as I can't think of anything else which gives me the pleasure canal boating does.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You are going to be buying fuel - why would you not want to retain the receipts 'Just in case'.

I don't have a receipts for most of the fuel I have consumed in my boat . Is that  a problem ? 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I reckon fuel boats will continue to sell red diesel aka "gasoil" for heating and generators. They put it in your tank and you use it as you choose. I can't see how the fuel supplier can control what you do with it. Most boats use diesel for generating some electricity even if that is fractions of kWh per day in reality. 

 

If you want to you can drink the cherry red stuff but it's not very pleasant. 

 

It will all come down to enforcement. Do we think someone will be walking the towpaths checking boat fuel tanks without any prior notice? 

 

It all seems slightly silly.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

It will all come down to enforcement. Do we think someone will be walking the towpaths checking boat fuel tanks without any prior notice? 

 

No

 

The first white diesel fuel deliveries to marinas will in any case be stained red by the fuel already in the marinas tank. Is the boater to be held liable for that ? I suspect not.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The first white diesel fuel deliveries to marinas will in any case be stained red by the fuel already in the marinas tank.

 

I suspect you haven't read the consultation paper.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-reforms-to-the-tax-treatment-of-red-diesel-and-other-rebated-fuels

 

Ensuring compliance: fuel suppliers

 

5.7 The government expects that some fuel suppliers currently selling red diesel will switch to providing white diesel to sectors that have lost their entitlement.

 

5.8 However, the government understands that the chemical markers used to identify red diesel may remain in fuel tanks and pipes when these fuel suppliers switch to white diesel. The government wants to minimise the risk that white diesel that has had the full duty rate paid on it is sold contaminated with the red diesel marker. This could lead to those that had legitimately purchased white diesel being found to have committed an offence as if they had misused red diesel.

 

5.9 To mitigate the risk of this issue materialising, the government proposes that any fuel suppliers that switch a fuel tank from red to white diesel, in anticipation of the introduction of the tax changes (or after it has taken place), will need to flush out the tank and pump until no trace of marked rebated fuel remains.

 

 

Edited by TheBiscuits
remove a spurious page number in a block of text
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It will all come down to enforcement. Do we think someone will be walking the towpaths checking boat fuel tanks without any prior notice? 

They used to in France, I suspect there will be some raids on marinas with miscreants fined big time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It will all come down to enforcement. Do we think someone will be walking the towpaths checking boat fuel tanks without any prior notice?

 

They'll probably dip a few after a year or so just to prove a point.

 

The fuel boats (who are RDCOs) will be checked far more carefully and often.  If they are still selling the same volume of red diesel and not selling any white then pointed questions will get asked.  

Edited by TheBiscuits
spellink
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I suspect you haven't read the consultation paper.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-reforms-to-the-tax-treatment-of-red-diesel-and-other-rebated-fuels

 

Ensuring compliance: fuel suppliers

 

5.7 The government expects that some fuel suppliers currently selling red diesel will switch to providing white diesel to sectors that have lost their entitlement.

 

5.8 However, the government understands that the chemical markers used to identify red diesel may remain in fuel tanks and pipes when these fuel suppliers switch to white diesel. The government wants to minimise the risk that white diesel that has had the full duty rate paid on it is sold contaminated with the red diesel marker. This could lead to those that had legitimately purchased white diesel being found to have committed an offence as if they had misused red diesel.

 

5.9 To mitigate the risk of this issue materialising, the government proposes that any fuel suppliers that switch a fuel tank from red to white diesel, in anticipation of the introduction of the tax changes (or after it has taken place), will need to flush out the tank and pump until no trace of marked rebated fuel remains.

 

 

 Its just a proposal in a consultation document  . Not legislation. What they suggest is not viable.

 It would be sensible to have  a transition period during which contamination with red dye is accepted.

 

In any case  a boat may have red diesel in its tank and fuel system years after the change to supply of white diesel. Does HMRC propose that boat fuel tanks and fuel systems need to be flushed out so there is no trace of red dye?

 

Having red diesel in a boat tank cannot possibly be  proven as an offence unless HMRC can prove it has been added after  1st April 2020.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

In any case  a boat may have red diesel in its tank and fuel system years after the change to supply of white diesel. Does HMRC propose that boat fuel tanks and fuel systems need to be flushed out so there is no trace of red dye?

 

No, but that is one of the questions HMRC are asking in the paper you haven't read.

 

15 Do you agree with the government’s suggested approach of not mandating users of red diesel that will lose their entitlement to flush out the fuel supplies of their vehicles and machinery? If you do not, please explain why.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

No, but that is one of the questions HMRC are asking in the paper you haven't read.

 

15 Do you agree with the government’s suggested approach of not mandating users of red diesel that will lose their entitlement to flush out the fuel supplies of their vehicles and machinery? If you do not, please explain why.

 

It makes you wonder how people can argue about something when it is blatantly obvious they have not even read the documentation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

"Better to have and not to need, than need and not to have".

 

You are going to be buying fuel - why would you not want to retain the receipts 'Just in case'.

Are you starting to be affected by the apparent hatred of 'paperwork' increasingly found by users of the waterways ?

We are in the process of selling a property we bought thirty years ago. In order to calculate the Capital Gains liability we have to show evidence of all the capital improvements we have done over that period. I used to get a lot of stick for all the 'stuff' that went into our loft but at least I have a pretty good case to present to HMRC (or our accountant really)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.