Insurance - "All risk" cover for Survey lift out.

[Lizzie53]

I want to have my boat surveyed and don't have a previous survey.   The marina who can do the lifting out require “All risk”  insurance cover.  I have third party insurance but I can’t find a company who will provide All Risk cover unless I already have a survey.   Catch 22.  Does anyone have any suggestions please?

[Momac]

I can see their point - both marina and insurer.

Is it possible the boat could be surveyed sufficiently  when in the water to convince insurers it has enough structural integrity to survive the lift ?

 

[David Mack]

If the marina do lift outs this can't be the first time this has arisen. So ask them how it has been dealt with before.

[Mike42]

Did you get this sorted? @Lizzie53  My boat is booked for a full, pre purchase survey but using a dry dock. 
I’m wondering how long after get the survey results was insurance arranged? 

[Alan de Enfield]

I realise that this was over a year ago and that it was the only post Lizzie ever made, but........... This seems a very strange situation.

 

I have been lifted in & out dozens of times over the years (4 times in the last 2 years) with a variety of cranes, hoists and trailers and have NEVER been asked to provide my own insurance cover.

It has always been the responsibility of the crane operator, marina etc to provide cover for both your boat, and, any damage they may do to 3rd parties whilst 'swinging it around'

 

I'd be very interested in what the reasoning / justification behind the requirement was - was it that the boat was in such poor condition that they considered it may fall apart if lifted and they would not provide cover in that case ?

 

Has any one else had the same requirement placed on them ?

[David Mack]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It has always been the responsibility of the crane operator, marina etc to provide cover for both your boat, and, any damage they may do to 3rd parties whilst 'swinging it around'

It is my understanding (although I may be wrong) that under the lifting regulations the crane operator is always legally responsible for the lift, and so should be insured for the risks. That said I have seen an ancient crane at one boatyard which carried notices about all lifts being at the boatowner's risk, and that owners should have their own insurance. Not sure if that would stand up in court (or in a post-incident HSE investigation).

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

It is my understanding (although I may be wrong) that under the lifting regulations the crane operator is always legally responsible for the lift, and so should be insured for the risks.

 

That has always been my understanding and when I have asked about their insurance they have always confirmed they have full cover.

 

I also believe that it us not just crane operators but anyone  'doing something for payment', be they be a 'boat mover' a painter, welder, a lock keeper, a gas fitter, or electrician, they (or their company) are all required to hold public liability insurance as a minimum.

[Mike42]

Great information. As it’s not my boat that is getting lifted*, at my expense, for “my” pre-purchase survey, I better check before I sign any agreement. 
 

*or is a dry dock referred as something else.. 
 

[Alan de Enfield]

40 minutes ago, Mike42 said:

Great information. As it’s not my boat that is getting lifted*, at my expense, for “my” pre-purchase survey, I better check before I sign any agreement. 
 

*or is a dry dock referred as something else.. 
 

 

It could still 'break its back' if the hull is a bit iffy & it is not supported correctly.

Even a dry dock should have insurance.

 

I was at one marina where the marina owner was lifting a boat using a huge tracked JCB as a crane - he had estimated the balance point and had a single strap around the hull.

 

Lifted up and it was like 'time for a Kit-Kat' Snapped completely in two halves.

 

Having gone to ask about some work I needed doing - I put my head down and crept away, never to return.

[Mike42]

Thanks @Alan de Enfield

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Mike42 said:

Thanks @Alan de Enfield

 

I'm sure all dry docks will know what to do and how to do it otherwise they would not have any business.

Bad news travels fast !

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike42]

I’ll share a photo of my experience. Thanks again.  

[David Mack]

48 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It could still 'break its back' if the hull is a bit iffy & it is not supported correctly.

Even a dry dock should have insurance.

 

I was at one marina where the marina owner was lifting a boat using a huge tracked JCB as a crane - he had estimated the balance point and had a single strap around the hull.

 

Lifted up and it was like 'time for a Kit-Kat' Snapped completely in two halves.

 

Having gone to ask about some work I needed doing - I put my head down and crept away, never to return.

 

 

[MtB]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I have been lifted in & out dozens of times over the years (4 times in the last 2 years) with a variety of cranes, hoists and trailers

 

And what about your boat? 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

And what about your boat? 

 

I've lost a fair bit of weight in the last few years so I can now manage to get on and off the boat under 'my own steam'.

[Momac]

16 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I was at one marina where the marina owner was lifting a boat using a huge tracked JCB as a crane - he had estimated the balance point and had a single strap around the hull.

Doesn't sound like  a good plan does it . 

Edited November 19, 2021 by MartynG

[Tony Brooks]

17 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

snip

I was at one marina where the marina owner was lifting a boat using a huge tracked JCB as a crane - he had estimated the balance point and had a single strap around the hull.

 

Lifted up and it was like 'time for a Kit-Kat' Snapped completely in two halves.

 

snip

 

I can't comprehend what was in his mind to even try that.  I have had strops slip on GRP cruisers when we checked they were firmly in place but the hulls were still partially in the water. A single strap - must be brain dead.

[john.k]

I had a boat hanging bow down with both straps caught on the rudder and prop......simple rule is the boat owner pays for a dogman,or he slings the boat himself,and takes full responsibility.......I even offered the use of my ugly old spreader ,but the boatie  thought  the rusty pipe might damage the boat......my old Harman crawler used to ocassionally play up on one slew clutch ,but had the good quirk that when one track came off the ground,you still had  a ton before it tipped  over.

[system 4-50]

reported

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Guest Raymond1muppy said:

Hello, it's my first time come here

 

Welcome, you idiot!

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Welcome, you idiot!

 

Maybe he will go and come somewhere else instead.

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maybe he will go and come somewhere else instead.

 

He's prolly being paid 1p a day to post links on any forum he can find. 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Guest Dallas1owelt said:

hello, everyone,This is my first time come here

 

And your last .................

 

Reported.

[Alan de Enfield]

Goodbye.

 

Reported

2 minutes ago, Guest Joshua12Beari said:

I am very happy to cme here

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Guest Joshua12Beari said:

hello, everyone,nice to meet you

 

Reported

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Alan de Enfield