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The Rochdale closed again and again and again .....


Midnight

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1 minute ago, Midnight said:

Eleventh closure this year could be a record? With the long term closure at Figure of three  and the Huddersfield not far behind the Rochdale it's not good ooop norf just now.

But at least it hasn't run out of water this year ?

 

Its easy to do the "its all lack of maintenance" thing, but looking at the various stoppages they are mostly just things that happen on a canal. The Rochdale has a LOT of locks and was a massive restoration, some of which was completed only by financial ingenuity after the money had run out. It also maybe has more than its fair share of culverts running under it. I suspect its not going to get better any time soon as a lot of locks have a wooden floor and it looks like these are getting to the end of their lives. I reckon its touch and go whether lock 9 (Hebden Bridge) makes it to the end of the year.

 

Without Shire Cruisers the Rochdale would only see a couple of boat movements each week so is not going to be top of the CRT maintenance budget.

 

............Dave

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Oh dear, I can’t possibly move then. 
Being a few locks above it, I’ll have to stay put. 
 

It doesn’t usually take CRT long to bodge up sink holes. 
I’ve seen them pour a cement mixture down until they see it seep out somewhere. 
Quick fix and forget about it until the lock collapses. 
 

I reported a sink hole at lock 1, Sowerby Bridge, winter before last. Big enough to climb/fall down and disappear. Got filled with cement and back filled with earth. 
 

 

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54 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Eleventh closure this year could be a record? With the long term closure at Figure of three  and the Huddersfield not far behind the Rochdale it's not good ooop norf just now.

i've not seen any closure on the Hudds this year that wasn't sorted same or next day, the ground team do a great job and have a local metal fabricator who knocks up the replacement paddles PDQ, other closures have been downed trees which again are sorted quickly once landowner permission is granted.

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16 hours ago, Goliath said:

Oh dear, I can’t possibly move then. 
Being a few locks above it, I’ll have to stay put. 
 

It doesn’t usually take CRT long to bodge up sink holes. 
I’ve seen them pour a cement mixture down until they see it seep out somewhere. 
Quick fix and forget about it until the lock collapses. 
 

I reported a sink hole at lock 1, Sowerby Bridge, winter before last. Big enough to climb/fall down and disappear. Got filled with cement and back filled with earth. 
 

 

Reminded me of a conversation I had years ago with a chap who lived opposite the canal road bridge at lock 47 in Littleborugh. He told me to be careful of getting grounded below the lock on an underwater obstruction. He said BW were pumping grout into the lock walls for days until the realised it was coming out of the bottom end under the waterline. Still makes me chuckle when I pass that way.

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23 hours ago, dmr said:

I suspect its not going to get better any time soon as a lot of locks have a wooden floor and it looks like these are getting to the end of their lives. I reckon its touch and go whether lock 9 (Hebden Bridge) makes it to the end of the year.

I am pretty sure the Rochdale locks have stone inverts, as shown in this Rochdale Canal Lock drawing from the Rochdale papers held in Greater Manchester Record Office. The foundations for the lower gates are wood, which is pretty standard canal engineering for the time, and such wooden floors can be found elsewhere. Stone/brick inverts were used widely from the 1790s, and it is earlier canals which have fully wooden lock floors. There are several on the L&LC, but even then they are not universal, and depended upon ground conditions. The second photo shows River Lock at Leeds. The wooden boarding does get disturbed by water flows from the upper paddles, and it is quite normal for this to be replaced routinely. It is fixed to wooden piles and beams, which are probably original, given the difficulty in replacing them.

Rochdale lock.jpg

River Lock Leeds.jpg

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I had hoped to get some photos of the repairs to lock 46 but was told that the fencing prevented access to get sight of the lock bottom. I chatted to a CRT bloke but he was a workboat mover rather than an actual lock fixer, he said it was wood at the ends but stone/brick in the middle which fits in with your lovely drawing. The repair was done very quickly  which again fits in with timber replacement as a routine operation.  Lock 9 (Hebden) is now leaking really badly at the bottom gates so might be another chance to get a look.

Where did you get these drawings? Are they publicly available or is it a private collection?

 

....................Dave

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The Rochdale drawing is in the Greater Manchester Record Office, who hold the Rochdale Canal records. It is a VERY extensive collection, with an almost complete run of business letters and minutes, though engineering details are often just simple reports. The collection is available for inspection, Covid permitting at the moment.

 

The Waterways Archive at Ellesmere Port also has a collection of old photos, with these two showing the complete reconstruction of Linnet Lock over 36 hours in 1881, from 9am on the 9th June, to 8pm on the 10th.

Linnet Lock 9AM 9-6-1881.jpg

Linnet Lock 8pm 10-6-1881.jpg

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  • 4 weeks later...

Looks likely to be another lengthy closure. 
"

12/10/2020 13:58

Our engineers have confirmed that the underside of the bridge is unstable. The bridge is not owned by Canal & River Trust, but to ensure the safety of our customers, navigation between Lock 36 and Lock 45 on the Rochdale Canal will remain closed until the bridge is repaired.

An update will be provided by Friday, 16 October.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Another update on Punchbowl Bridge another delay this time fobbing boaters off until November 13 for the next update. This is unacceptable! I have been told road traffic is still using the bridge and that the 'risk' is just a piece of rendering which has fallen from the underside where the bridge was once widened. There are boats stuck each side. I'm absolutely sure CaRT could arrange assisted passage or come up with a temporary solution to enable boats to pass. Those heading west face winter stoppages beginning November 2nd on the Ashton and Trent & Mersey. More evidence that CaRT do not represent boaters interests.

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I think it's more that CaRT is filled with jobsworths who don't understand risk and the intention behind 'elf'n'safety regulations and can't take any decisions for themselves.

 

So one bit of rendering falls off a bridge, it's only a safety/risk problem if there happens to be a boat going underneath at the time. Number of boats per day on the Rochdale is tiny, maybe half a dozen per day. Window for falling rendering to hit a passing boat maybe 15 seconds, so if rendering falls on a given day the chance of hitting a boat on that day is about 1 in a thousand. If one bit of rendering falls off every 3 months, the odds of it hitting a boat are one in a hundred thousand -- so maybe a one in a million chance of it falling on somebody and hurting them.

 

So the avoid this infinitesimal risk, they close the canal for a month, causing major inconvenience (which has a cost) to everyone who wants to travel on it. Any sensible risk analysis would have shown that it should have been kept open, presumably with a warning sign about bits falling off the bridge saying proceed at your own risk. But this kind of thing involves thinking, which box-ticking jobsworths either aren't very good at or aren't allowed to do because it's above their pay grade.

 

Welcome to CaRT today ?

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14 minutes ago, IanD said:

I think it's more that CaRT is filled with jobsworths who don't understand risk and the intention behind 'elf'n'safety regulations and can't take any decisions for themselves.

 

So one bit of rendering falls off a bridge, it's only a safety/risk problem if there happens to be a boat going underneath at the time. Number of boats per day on the Rochdale is tiny, maybe half a dozen per day. Window for falling rendering to hit a passing boat maybe 15 seconds, so if rendering falls on a given day the chance of hitting a boat on that day is about 1 in a thousand. If one bit of rendering falls off every 3 months, the odds of it hitting a boat are one in a hundred thousand -- so maybe a one in a million chance of it falling on somebody and hurting them.

 

So the avoid this infinitesimal risk, they close the canal for a month, causing major inconvenience (which has a cost) to everyone who wants to travel on it. Any sensible risk analysis would have shown that it should have been kept open, presumably with a warning sign about bits falling off the bridge saying proceed at your own risk. But this kind of thing involves thinking, which box-ticking jobsworths either aren't very good at or aren't allowed to do because it's above their pay grade.

 

Welcome to CaRT today ?

Obviously a different Risk Assessor from the clot who assessed the temporary landing stage at Woodside Mills lock near Elland as safe. CaRT management is a bigger nightmare than a pandemic we need to find a cure soon!

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

I think it's more that CaRT is filled with jobsworths who don't understand risk and the intention behind 'elf'n'safety regulations and can't take any decisions for themselves.

 

So one bit of rendering falls off a bridge, it's only a safety/risk problem if there happens to be a boat going underneath at the time. Number of boats per day on the Rochdale is tiny, maybe half a dozen per day. Window for falling rendering to hit a passing boat maybe 15 seconds, so if rendering falls on a given day the chance of hitting a boat on that day is about 1 in a thousand. If one bit of rendering falls off every 3 months, the odds of it hitting a boat are one in a hundred thousand -- so maybe a one in a million chance of it falling on somebody and hurting them.

 

So the avoid this infinitesimal risk, they close the canal for a month, causing major inconvenience (which has a cost) to everyone who wants to travel on it. Any sensible risk analysis would have shown that it should have been kept open, presumably with a warning sign about bits falling off the bridge saying proceed at your own risk. But this kind of thing involves thinking, which box-ticking jobsworths either aren't very good at or aren't allowed to do because it's above their pay grade.

 

Welcome to CaRT today ?

 

I did see half a dozen boats one day, though 1 of those was a hire boat passing, turning and returning. This very busy day was due to the backlog when lock 46 re-opened.  6 boats a week on the Littleborough flight is more realistic.  CRT actually do quite a good job on the Rochdale but such an under used waterway is never going to be top of the list.

 

I believe that a hire boat was trapped on the wrong side of the current bridge failure and was pulled through on ropes. At this time of the year the traffic will be one or two boats per week so it would not be too difficult for CRT to rope them through.

 

Good to see 2 CRT blokes walking the towpath yesterday making plans to upgrade the signage, much more important than boating ?

 

..............Dave

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13 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Which Rochdale are you talking about? I know at least one boater who has been trying to escape the one in Yorkshire since August!

 

Unless this boat is over 57 foot he could have got out via the Huddersfield.

 

Can't really blame CRT for the big Manchester stoppage, and despite what others say, the big building site right next to the canal, including work on related culverts, surely must have played a part?

This is now fixed (a couple of days ago) and with Winter stoppages now looming it is very poor of CRT not to offer assisted passage through the failed bridge.

The towpath upgrade getting washed into the canal by the floods was also a bad performance by CRT and their contractors.

My bigger concerns is that most lock gates were installed at the same time (the restoration) and so will all get to the end of their life at the same time, and the wooden lock floors also need routine replacement and this is not getting done, and several are now looking suspect.

 

Due to the floods and lockdown we are having an extended stay on the Rochdale and much of it is in quite good condition considering that the restoration was rushed and under funded. If a paddle fails then it often won't get fixed as long as the other still works but this is not unique to the Rochdale.

 

The Rochdale is not a popular canal so will never be maintained like the Shroppie..

 

.................Dave

 

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5 hours ago, IanD said:

I think it's more that CaRT is filled with jobsworths who don't understand risk and the intention behind 'elf'n'safety regulations and can't take any decisions for themselves.

 

So one bit of rendering falls off a bridge, it's only a safety/risk problem if there happens to be a boat going underneath at the time. Number of boats per day on the Rochdale is tiny, maybe half a dozen per day. Window for falling rendering to hit a passing boat maybe 15 seconds, so if rendering falls on a given day the chance of hitting a boat on that day is about 1 in a thousand. If one bit of rendering falls off every 3 months, the odds of it hitting a boat are one in a hundred thousand -- so maybe a one in a million chance of it falling on somebody and hurting them.

 

So the avoid this infinitesimal risk, they close the canal for a month, causing major inconvenience (which has a cost) to everyone who wants to travel on it. Any sensible risk analysis would have shown that it should have been kept open, presumably with a warning sign about bits falling off the bridge saying proceed at your own risk. But this kind of thing involves thinking, which box-ticking jobsworths either aren't very good at or aren't allowed to do because it's above their pay grade.

 

Welcome to CaRT today ?

Whilst I can’t argue CRT are a bag of shit, you’re really just making shit up. 
You have just made a less than sensible risk assessment about summat you know nowt about. 
Everything you just wrote is bollocks. 
 

what you drinking?

can I have some? 

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I heard that the whole deck of the bridge was unsound, so surprised to hear that vehicles are still going over it. Am tempted to cycle down and have a look....if it ever stops raining.....but I expect its all fenced off.

 

Putting a padlock on lock 36 is a bit daft, well extremely daft, as they have removed access to the only official Winding hole (right above 36) where a boat might turn, and this is the destination of many local hire boats.

 

..............Dave. 

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