A Boat near Oswestry: battery question + anyone about? :)

[BoatjackHorseboat]

Hi all,

 

My gf and I are viewing a 40 foot narrowboat that’s moored on Montgomery canal just south of Oswestry Sunday at 2pm. Owner can’t make it – he’s ill, sadly, hence the sale – so we’re meeting his friend who doesn’t really know boats. There’s no-one living aboard rn and looking unlikely we can get further info pre-Sunday.

 

I've done endless research over the past months + rung some surveyors for advice. But it’s a private sale and we’re nervous we don’t have the hands on experience make an informed decision.

 

It needs a new starter battery, which we’ll bring to test the engine. Engine is *small* - a 250cc Ruggerini. Hoping 70ah will be sufficient? Are there specific terminals for a starter battery that makes it different to a bog standard leisure battery?

 

And on the off chance... any professionals and/or knowledgeable boaters happen to be in the area who might be able to swing by, watch me struggle to fit the battery + start the engine and offer wisdom on whether the boat’s worth us pursuing?

 

Might say more on the general boat/survey situation in a bit – but want to focus on the above first!

 

Thanks, Jack

Edited September 10, 2020 by BoatjackHorseboat

[fatmanblue]

250cc is very small (too small) , I think it may be a Ruggerini MM 250 which is 24 hp.

 

70aH should be sufficient to start anything up to 2 litres and a bit more.

 

There are many terminal types but a standard installation should be easy to deal with.

 

Good luck. I can't help with inspection but others might. A first look should give an idea of whether it is viable though.

[BoatjackHorseboat]

Re the engine that completely figures and is invaluable knowledge, thanks. I did think 250cc seemed weedy. As I say, the friend of owner I'm in contact with doesn't know boats...

 

And re the battery, cool gotcha, hopefully I can deal with it!

[ditchcrawler]

You are sure the owner is selling it, aren't you?

[BoatjackHorseboat]

As sure as I can be. I spoke to him Monday and we set up the meeting with his friend for Sunday. He told me a bit about his boat and a lot else besides. Quite a character, though not exactly big on details. And not good at picking up the phone since. But as I say he mentioned he has health problems so I don't want to push it.

 

What can I say, it's a classified ad, but everything seems legit.

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, BoatjackHorseboat said:

As sure as I can be. I spoke to him Monday and we set up the meeting with his friend for Sunday. He told me a bit about his boat and a lot else besides. Quite a character, though not exactly big on details. And not good at picking up the phone since. But as I say he mentioned he has health problems so I don't want to push it.

 

What can I say, it's a classified ad, but everything seems legit.

Be careful, it does sound a bit questionable. Seller not big on details (aka seller doesn’t know anything about the boat, because it isn’t his). Seller not picking up the phone (aka seller doesn’t know anything about the boat because it isn’t his and he doesn’t want to have to deflect any more unanswerable questions).

 

Another way of thinking about it is, if you wanted to sell a boat you didn’t own, how might you and your friend go about setting that scam up?
 

Of course, it could all be genuine... but if I was selling my boat because of health issues, I wouldn’t do it as above.

[BoatjackHorseboat]

Understand. It's all seems very genuine, to be honest. The friend is a middle aged welsh woman who sounds rather sick of the whole darn thing. But then, we could consider that's part of the scam too and so on and so on into the conspiratorial.

 

I'll be wary as I can. At the same time, I'm just going to view the boat for now, and will come back with more info.

 

To try to circle back to my original topic... if anyone's currently South of Oswestry to come by they may be able to help me notice such plot twist and also whether boat is viable!

[smiler]

Ask the seller to provide some sort of paper trail ie receipts for servicing, repairs, spare parts etc - as much paperwork as possible via "the friend"

When viewing the boat scrutinise any paperwork you come across ie names, addresses, phone number, email address etc. See if these tally with the seller.

Make sure "the friend" has all original keys for every lock on the boat.

On the day of the viewing, post a pic of the boat on here, maybe a member here knows the boat and or owner (small chance)

Re starter battery, take a set of jump leads along in case the battery doesn't fit or cables don't reach.

Good luck

[TheBiscuits]

5 hours ago, smiler said:

Re starter battery, take a set of jump leads along in case the battery doesn't fit or cables don't reach.

 

I was about to post exactly this.

[Bee]

I would just take the whole thing at face value at the moment, you are not even sure if you will like it. Ruggerini engines used to be fitted to 'low end' boats, Springers and such like so you are probably going to view a fairly old boat and the condition of the hull underwater is paramount. Older boats often used to be 1/4 plate on the bottom, 3/16 on the sides, some could be less than that and yours might well be one of them.  Boats nowadays tend to be a good bit thicker.  Its important to know that. Its also important to know that steel boats are virtually endlessly repairable but you don't really want to be the one to pick up a big bill for welding.

[Graham Davis]

I'm not that far away and can at least connect batteries to engines, and have jump leads but not sure what is happening Sunday.

 

If this boat is South of Oswestry I'm presuming it is in the unconnected bit of the Montgomery Canal so will need road transport if you want to get it to the rest of us system. 

 

Churchward isn't that far away either.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Graham Davis

[BoatjackHorseboat]

Just got back to check this. Thanks for all the replies. Very helpful!

 

I'll be careful. It'll be way easier to discuss/find things like paperwork etc when I meet in person.

 

Will get hold of jump leads to bring (unless Graham's about!)

8 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

I'm not that far away and can at least connect batteries to engines, and have jump leads but not sure what is happening Sunday.

 

If this boat is South of Oswestry I'm presuming it is in the unconnected bit of the Montgomery Canal so will need road transport if you want to get it to the rest of us system. 

 

Churchward isn't that far away either.

Hey Graham, the postcode which I've just finally been sent, puts it near Oswestry boat builders - a yard right at the end of the connected section - don't know if you know it? Looking at the map, the boat may in fact be moored there at the moment. This I will try to discover. I've tried to rind the yard today but no one's picking up... will try again tomorrow.

 

If OBB open Sunday, potentially there'll be someone there with the time to help. Although, I imagine a mechanic there will want to be paid for this. And without wanting to be too cynical, they perhaps won't be unbiased if they recommend we pursue a boat with lots of mechanical/potential exterior work needed..

 

In other words if you do happen to be around Sunday that'd be wonderful.

 

Just took me 10 mins to work out 'Churchward' is another user. Yep if either of you can help!

Edited September 11, 2020 by BoatjackHorseboat

[Sea Dog]

18 hours ago, BoatjackHorseboat said:

It's all seems very genuine, to be honest.

It might all be perfectly innocent. Nevertheless, if you were a criminal conducting a scam, wouldn't the above be No1 on your "to do" list...?

 

Hopefully, however, now that you have the feedback so far, you'll be able to discern whether this is kosher. Good luck!

[Graham Davis]

Looking on Google Earth there are numerous narrow boats moored in the arm by Maelor Feeds and Severn Fabrications, to the west of the Canal Centre, and more just south of there in an old wharf (?)

[BoatjackHorseboat]

Nice - thanks for checking - yep I've confirmed it's in the arm by Severn Fabrications / Maelor Feeds

Edited September 11, 2020 by BoatjackHorseboat

[BoatjackHorseboat]

On 10/09/2020 at 22:52, fatmanblue said:

250cc is very small (too small) , I think it may be a Ruggerini MM 250 which is 24 hp.

Let's assume for now that the engine is a Ruggerini MM 250 (if it's some kind of 250cc petrol bodge that's well underpowered I'll most likely back out anyway)

 

I want to eliminate variables, so that I can check the engine/drive running smooth - I'm told it was when last run... this was 6 months ago, though.

 

- I've a Halfords 70ah leisure battery for the starter.

- Can get hold of jump leads.

- I'm bringing Diesel in the appropriate container

- I have some 20w50 oil lying about - this be good for this engine? (potentially a naive question) If not might pick up something else tomorrow

- I have diesel redex engine cleaner, which the owner recommended in our brief chat https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/redex-250ml-diesel-fuel-system-cleaner/p/0133792

- Assorted spanners / screwdrivers

 

Anything else I should bring?

Edited September 11, 2020 by BoatjackHorseboat

[Stilllearning]

11 hours ago, BoatjackHorseboat said:

Let's assume for now that the engine is a Ruggerini MM 250 (if it's some kind of 250cc petrol bodge that's well underpowered I'll most likely back out anyway)

 

I want to eliminate variables, so that I can check the engine/drive running smooth - I'm told it was when last run... this was 6 months ago, though.

 

- I've a Halfords 70ah leisure battery for the starter.

- Can get hold of jump leads.

- I'm bringing Diesel in the appropriate container

- I have some 20w50 oil lying about - this be good for this engine? (potentially a naive question) If not might pick up something else tomorrow

- I have diesel redex engine cleaner, which the owner recommended in our brief chat https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/redex-250ml-diesel-fuel-system-cleaner/p/0133792

- Assorted spanners / screwdrivers

 

Anything else I should bring?

Swarfega, rags/cloths, maybe gloves, and no rose tinted specs!

A camera, take a lot of pics.

[ditchcrawler]

I would forget redex oil etc unless you plan to buy if, If it wont start on the jump leads then buy it as a non runner if you really like it.

[Mike Tee]

Re the ownership question, if at all possible talk with any other boat owners / dwellers on site to verify the owner. How long known etc.

[BoatjackHorseboat]

Hey. So, I verified the ownership with the boatyard - is all kosher. We've 90% ruled the boat out, though. It's been left 6 months with no stern cover. The deck's pretty rusty and the struts that support lifting panels are crumbling. I doubt this is a cheap fix.

 

The hull is a converted 1940s butty (extended at some point..). It doesn't look bad, but would for sure need survey. The cabin is aluminium and feels, er, spongy. Wasn't able to access the join to check for corrosion. We're at the budget end of the market, if you hadn't guessed we shall see.

 

Mainly out of interest then.... Here's the discussed Ruggerini engine. And when I say engine turns out I mean outboard. The whole thing turns with wheel steering. Are these usable or something to avoid?

[Graham Davis]

Sorry I couldn't make it, but it seems you've made the right decision.
As for that engine......AVOID!