webasto silencer leaking water

[moiuk]

 

Today for the first time I have noticed a constant drip of water from the bottom of the webasto exhaust silencer.  It has created quite a puddle.

 

Any ideas of what this could be? Is it an issue?

 

Seems a bit odd to have water in their, pretty sure no water has got in via the outlet, and there is a large Swan neck installed so even if some had, it woukd not have reached the silencer.

 

Thoughts?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, moiuk said:

Thoughts?

 

You (probably) have an automotive and not a marine Webasto.

Did you buy it ? (there are loads on ebay and are several £100's cheaper than marine versions lots of folk have been 'caught out')

 

The automotive version has a condensation drain hole which will (on a vehicle) allow the exhaust gases and the exhaust condensation to drip out below the vehicle.

 

On a boat, this version could be deadly as it allows the Carbon Monoxide to enter the cabin. Hopefully you have working CO alarms.

 

If it is the Automotive version - DO NOT USE and get the marine exhaust system purchased and fitted ASAP.

[Tony Brooks]

Could this be condensation - burn a litre of diesel and produce 2 litres of water vapour.

 

I thought the same as Alan re an automotive unit.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Tony Brooks

[Chewbacka]

If you only run the boiler for short periods then it may not have time to boil off all the condensation (which is why automotive exhausts have a drain hole). 

[moiuk]

4 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

If you only run the boiler for short periods then it may not have time to boil off all the condensation (which is why automotive exhausts have a drain hole). 

Generally been running it fo 30-40 minutes to heat the water up. Is that too short?

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You (probably) have an automotive and not a marine Webasto.

Did you buy it ? (there are loads on ebay and are several £100's cheaper than marine versions lots of folk have been 'caught out')

 

The automotive version has a condensation drain hole which will (on a vehicle) allow the exhaust gases and the exhaust condensation to drip out below the vehicle.

 

On a boat, this version could be deadly as it allows the Carbon Monoxide to enter the cabin. Hopefully you have working CO alarms.

 

If it is the Automotive version - DO NOT USE and get the marine exhaust system purchased and fitted ASAP.

Here it is. The leak is from the middle of the bottom of the silencer.  How can you tell if its the marine version or the automotive?  Its a ThermoPro 90.

Edited September 9, 2020 by moiuk

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, moiuk said:

Here it is...

That looks like a vehicle type exhaust to me. The marine ones look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124077311105

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, moiuk said:

Generally been running it fo 30-40 minutes to heat the water up. Is that too short?

Here it is. The leak is from the middle of the bottom of the silencer.  How can you tell if its the marine version or the automotive?  Its a ThermoPro 90.

 

Yup - you have an automotive version.

Not only is the exhaust 'dangerous' but you will have problems starting and running ans the 'chip' is set up for different voltages. Vehicles only have 'starter batteries' which are held at very high charge levels. The automotive versions do not 'like' the fluctuating voltages from a canal boat domestic batteries.

 

Some year ago there was a forum member (MNEA) who was a Webasto installer who reeled off all of the differences between the Automotive and the marine versions.

 

But, basically its a case of do not use it until you have installed the proper marine exhaust kit.

 

I don't like the look of the 'hull fitting' that you have, but if it works and is 'sealed' then its your choice.

The marine silencer is about £120, but you may be better buying a complete 'marina kit. with hull fittings and everything you need.

 

https://www.butlertechnik.com/webasto-or-eberspacher-marine-exhaust-silencer-24mm-x-1800mm-9014067a-1322001a-p147

[Cas446]

Or here for a bit less.

http://www.mikuniheating.com/Results.cfm?category=27&secondary=32

[Higgs]

11 minutes ago, Cas446 said:

Or here for a bit less.

http://www.mikuniheating.com/Results.cfm?category=27&secondary=32

 

Yes, the Webasto looks very similar to that of the Makuni; at least, it looks like the one I have for the Mikuni. Wesbasto like to fleece the customer, by the looks of their pricing. 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Higgs

[Tracy D'arth]

Stop using it, replace it with a proper marine kit. It will kill you. Had this on 3 occasions now, the truck kit is not suitable for a boat or any other enclosed installation. Complain vociferously to whoever sold/fitted this incorrect heater, you may save someone else from being killed in ignorance.

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Stop using it, replace it with a proper marine kit. It will kill you. Had this on 3 occasions now, the truck kit is not suitable for a boat or any other enclosed installation. Complain vociferously to whoever sold/fitted this incorrect heater, you may save someone else from being killed in ignorance.

 

I did ask in post #2 if he had purchased it - no answer.

 

Over the years we have had a number of people purchasing the 'automotive' version on ebay and then finding our it wasn't suitable (or even safe), unfortunately some unscrupulous ebay sellers say "Truck, Bus or Boat" not mentioning the need for modifications or a marine installation kit.

 

This is one area where you should think "why is this brand new Webasto £300 cheaper than the other one" It really is a case of paying the correct price to get the correct item.

 

Second-hand (ebay) ones from Turkey are even worse - a nice 'refurbished' Webasto for £200 - yeh !!!!!

 

It is a case of you only know what you know, and, don't know what you don't know - Its always better to ask for help rather than kill yourself or your family.

 

 

 

Edit to add :

 

Why is this one £999 (or offers)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBASTO-EVO-5-12V-5KW-DIESEL-BMW-MERCEDES-AUDI-AUXILIARY-BOAT-WATER-HEATER-KIT/113712806057?hash=item1a79cfb8a9:g:q0AAAOSw6GJaMs7S

 

When this one is £1935

http://www.espar.co.uk/EsparPlymouthProducts_MarineWaterHeaters.htm

Is a 'marine kit' really £1000 extra, or are there some other differences, or is someone 'ripping of their customers', or, is it indicative of EU pricing support ?

Edited September 10, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[moiuk]

36 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Stop using it, replace it with a proper marine kit. It will kill you. Had this on 3 occasions now, the truck kit is not suitable for a boat or any other enclosed installation. Complain vociferously to whoever sold/fitted this incorrect heater, you may save someone else from being killed in ignorance.

Thanks, the unit was installed by the manufacturer I believe,  in this case Collingwood.  I'll get a webasto engineer to take a look at it ASAP.

 

 

Fortunately, the engine bay where it is installed is well vented and then bulkhead is mostly well sealed from them living area, although I will move the co sensor closer to check it in the meantime.

 

 

41 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Stop using it, replace it with a proper marine kit. It will kill you. Had this on 3 occasions now, the truck kit is not suitable for a boat or any other enclosed installation. Complain vociferously to whoever sold/fitted this incorrect heater, you may save someone else from being killed in ignorance.

Is the main risk CO?   Or are their other dangers?

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I did ask in post #2 if he had purchased it - no answer.

 

Over the years we have had a number of people purchasing the 'automotive' version on ebay and then finding our it wasn't suitable (or even safe), unfortunately some unscrupulous ebay sellers say "Truck, Bus or Boat" not mentioning the need for modifications or a marine installation kit.

 

This is one area where you should think "why is this brand new Webasto £300 cheaper than the other one" It really is a case of paying the correct price to get the correct item.

 

Second-hand (ebay) ones from Turkey are even worse - a nice 'refurbished' Webasto for £200 - yeh !!!!!

 

It is a case of you only know what you know, and, don't know what you don't know - Its always better to ask for help rather than kill yourself or your family.

 

 

 

Edit to add :

 

Why is this one £999 (or offers)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBASTO-EVO-5-12V-5KW-DIESEL-BMW-MERCEDES-AUDI-AUXILIARY-BOAT-WATER-HEATER-KIT/113712806057?hash=item1a79cfb8a9:g:q0AAAOSw6GJaMs7S

 

When this one is £1935

http://www.espar.co.uk/EsparPlymouthProducts_MarineWaterHeaters.htm

Is a 'marine kit' really £1000 extra, or are there some other differences, or is someone 'ripping of their customers', or, is it indicative of EU pricing support ?

Thanks Alan, it came with the boat we bought. Slowly discovering all the shortcuts and issues that didn't get picked up by the full survey.. 

[Tracy D'arth]

CO is the main threat, the silent odourless killer. Not to panic you but this is a serious life risk. 

But the heater itself is unsuitable for a boat, it will shut down too soon as the battery voltage falls. I believe it is possible to have it reprogrammed so that it will shut down at a lower battery voltage.

The truck  one is designed this way so that it cannot flatten the truck battery, preventing the engine starting. With a boat it needs to shut down later as it is on the cabin battery not the engine battery.

Collingwood should be ashamed or shot for fitting this unit, suppose its cheaper and they don't care what happens to you once they have your money.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, moiuk said:

Thanks, the unit was installed by the manufacturer I believe,  in this case Collingwood. 

Collingwood  - disappointed, but surprised that they would penny-pinch to such an extent as to put lives at risk

Collingwood is just a 'Phoenix' company of 'Liverpool Boats' and obviously continue to build boats of questionable standards.

[moiuk]

19 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

CO is the main threat, the silent odourless killer. Not to panic you but this is a serious life risk. 

But the heater itself is unsuitable for a boat, it will shut down too soon as the battery voltage falls. I believe it is possible to have it reprogrammed so that it will shut down at a lower battery voltage.

The truck  one is designed this way so that it cannot flatten the truck battery, preventing the engine starting. With a boat it needs to shut down later as it is on the cabin battery not the engine battery.

Collingwood should be ashamed or shot for fitting this unit, suppose its cheaper and they don't care what happens to you once they have your money.

Thanks.

I have my second CO monitor now at the back end of the boat, so that should catch any issues. It's one with a PPM display rather than just a 'run' alarm, so I can monitor it if anything wrong starts to develop.

 

I am less concerned about the battery voltage as I use Lithium (LFP) batteries so the voltage stays pretty static, and never does the large drops. 

 

Yes - not great of collingwood. They have built a fantastic boat, but the finer details that are coming out are unnecessary shortcuts.

[Higgs]

42 minutes ago, moiuk said:

Thanks.

I have my second CO monitor now at the back end of the boat, so that should catch any issues. It's one with a PPM display rather than just a 'run' alarm, so I can monitor it if anything wrong starts to develop.

 

I am less concerned about the battery voltage as I use Lithium (LFP) batteries so the voltage stays pretty static, and never does the large drops. 

 

Yes - not great of collingwood. They have built a fantastic boat, but the finer details that are coming out are unnecessary shortcuts.

 

Are you the first owner of this boat, and was the Webasto definitely installed originally.