What do you think about this boat?

[Microsoft]

Hi everyone,

 

I am looking for advice on this vessel,

 

http://vcmarine.co.uk/boat-sales/maggie-60ft-pinder-cruiser-stern/?doing_wp_cron=1599175334.7347450256347656250000

 

Having done some research on the boat I can only assume that it was built by a reletively well regarded builder (Pinder) and has a reletively reliable engine.

 

I assume that it was an ex-hire vehicle.

 

I know that the internals are not groundbreaking to say the least but from the perspective of the age, builder and apparant condition of the superstructure I am unsure as to why this boat is not A) sold already (it appears to have been listed for a while and what with the market being so crazy at the minute) or B priced higher.

 

I am sure there is a very good reason for this and there are a whole host of terrible reasons why this is the case and why this would be a poor purchase.

 

However, as I am working with a budget of 25k (i know there will be additional costs for a survay which I will deffinatly be getting on any boat I consider in addition to insurence etc) I am curious to know your oppinions as to why I should not be interested in this boat.

 

Any advice would be really appreciated.

 

[WotEver]

I agree with you

 

Sure, she’s a bit old and tired but she’s priced right. I’ll be interested if anyone can suggest why she’s not worth an offer subject to survey. 

[TheBiscuits]

I'd say she's worth having a look at in person. 

 

Ask if you can see the previous survey too - there's been some welding done which isn't unusual on a nearly 30 year old boat, but has everything the surveyor specified at the time been done to a good standard?

 

If I was shopping for £25k boats I'd go and have a look this weekend.

[WotEver]

18 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

If I was shopping for £25k boats I'd go and have a look this weekend.

Me too. 

[matty40s]

By the state of the exterior, it hadnt been looked after for a while, so why would the engine be relatively reliable.

Spot welding on an almost 30 year old ex hire was probably just to keep it afloat, you would probably find the last survey recommended overplating.

Go and have a look, but yes, commission your own survey if still interested.

[Alastair]

I suspect that the fancy compressed air toilet is broken (note; the more complex a system, the more likely it is to break). The porta-potti is a giveaway. Replacing or fixing that could work out to be expensive.

 

Check waterline for pitting and rust.

 

Check engine bay for rust, particularly around  stern tube. 

 

If that is ok, go for a survey.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 hours ago, Microsoft said:

(i know there will be additional costs for a survay which I will deffinatly be getting on any boat

Your insurers will demand a full survey on a 30 year old boat anyway*, so, don't be tempted to buy without a survey, then find you need a survey for the insurance, have the survey and THEN find why it was so cheap.

 

* You can insure it 3rd party only, without a survey but obviously if anything happens to your boat ( sinks, you hit something etc) your costs are not covered. 3rd Party insurance only the pays out to the '3rd party' (the ones you hit)

[Tracy D'arth]

Seems to have electric radiators as well as central heating radiators, its been moored in a marina for a long time. It may have galvanic pitting corrosion of the hull if it has not got a galvanic isolator.

2 loos Lautrec?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[enigmatic]

I have a feeling this boat was 'off the market' when I went down to VC Marine a couple of weeks ago. The other boats I saw there were unglamorous but competitively priced.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Seems to have electric radiators as well as central heating radiators, its been moored in a marina for a long time. It may have galvanic pitting corrosion of the hull if it has not got a galvanic isolator.

2 loos Latrec?

You are not the first ............................

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

28 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

I have a feeling this boat was 'off the market' when I went down to VC Marine a couple of weeks ago. The other boats I saw there were unglamorous but competitively priced.

 

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You are not the first ............................

 

 

 

Well aware of that, since about 1980 thank you. 

[Microsoft]

33 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Seems to have electric radiators as well as central heating radiators, its been moored in a marina for a long time. It may have galvanic pitting corrosion of the hull if it has not got a galvanic isolator.

2 loos Lautrec?

 

 

 

 

Is this different to standard pitting of thr hull and how could this be obsurved from an assessement of the boat when in water. 

2 hours ago, Alastair said:

I suspect that the fancy compressed air toilet is broken (note; the more complex a system, the more likely it is to break). The porta-potti is a giveaway. Replacing or fixing that could work out to be expensive.

 

Check waterline for pitting and rust.

 

Check engine bay for rust, particularly around  stern tube. 

 

If that is ok, go for a survey.

Deffinatly looks broken which is a shame as the hire boats apparantly had a large hold for "crap". 

 

Can I ask if you can reccomend or link me to any ways of checking the waterline for pitting and rust (its always confusing what with the presence of alge and damage to the blacking coating. I would love some advice on assesseing that element when the boat is in the water. 

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, Microsoft said:

I would love some advice on assesseing that element when the boat is in the water. 

 

You may get an 'idea' by looking with an experienced eye - but, if you could find a way which gave you accurate results you could patent it and save boat owners / buyers £100,000's per year in lift outs & surveyors fees.

Basically the boat needs lifting and inspecting properly.

[doratheexplorer]

48 minutes ago, Microsoft said:

Is this different to standard pitting of thr hull and how could this be obsurved from an assessement of the boat when in water. 

Deffinatly looks broken which is a shame as the hire boats apparantly had a large hold for "crap". 

 

Can I ask if you can reccomend or link me to any ways of checking the waterline for pitting and rust (its always confusing what with the presence of alge and damage to the blacking coating. I would love some advice on assesseing that element when the boat is in the water. 

Get down on your hands and knees and scrap off the algae.

I have seen a boat which was heeled over using strong ratchet straps.  Lifted the off side well out of the water.  The get in a kayak and paddle round and have a look.

[Microsoft]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You may get an 'idea' by looking with an experienced eye - but, if you could find a way which gave you accurate results you could patent it and save boat owners / buyers £100,000's per year in lift outs & surveyors fees.

Basically the boat needs lifting and inspecting properly.

I'll have a think and see what i can come up with, I wouldn't mind another income streem in atm, I could put it into the most high tech of toilets. 

 

So basically its almost impossible to get a gague whilst the boats in the wated? 

 

I would obvs get a survey but im tentative to waist the money unless im reletively confident the boat is not a piece of crap. 

 

Would you say based on the age of the boat that its due some major work? 

[Alan de Enfield]

I;m sure its not what you want the hear, but the only way to get a definitve answer is to lift and survey.

 

You can 'eye-ball' the water line but it can be hard to visually distinguish between a 'spot' where the some blacking has chipped off, and a spot where corrosion has set in.

Being an ex-hire boat one area that will (probably0 need attention is the sacrificial edge between the sides and the bottom - this is an edge that 'sticks out a bit' so that when sliding down the edge of a concrete wall, the edge wears away rather than the side of the boat - if this has not regularly been re-built then the 'corner' where the bottom joins the side could be considerably worn away.

 

I understand you hesitation to spend money needlessly (we have all been there) but it really is the only way to be fairly certain about the hull condition)

 

A hull can go from 6mm to 0.1mm thickness in 12 months if kept in a marina with 'leaky electrics' - it happened to a member on this forum - one side of his boat was attacked, the other was unaffected.

 

Please don't think that the surveyor will find all the faults, and if he doesn't and you buy the boat you cannot sue him, it doesn't work like that. The small print in the survey says (words to the effect) the survey is only valid for 30 seconds after he has left and "I am not responsible for anything I have not seen or missed"

 

How do I know this ?

A failed attempt to take a surveyor to court after I bought a boat on his 'good survey' and found it needed £20k+ of work doing to it to make it 'sea-worthy'.

[Microsoft]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I;m sure its not what you want the hear, but the only way to get a definitve answer is to lift and survey.

 

You can 'eye-ball' the water line but it can be hard to visually distinguish between a 'spot' where the some blacking has chipped off, and a spot where corrosion has set in.

Being an ex-hire boat one area that will (probably0 need attention is the sacrificial edge between the sides and the bottom - this is an edge that 'sticks out a bit' so that when sliding down the edge of a concrete wall, the edge wears away rather than the side of the boat - if this has not regularly been re-built then the 'corner' where the bottom joins the side could be considerably worn away.

 

I understand you hesitation to spend money needlessly (we have all been there) but it really is the only way to be fairly certain about the hull condition)

 

A hull can go from 6mm to 0.1mm thickness in 12 months if kept in a marina with 'leaky electrics' - it happened to a member on this forum - one side of his boat was attacked, the other was unaffected.

 

Please don't think that the surveyor will find all the faults, and if he doesn't and you buy the boat you cannot sue him, it doesn't work like that. The small print in the survey says (words to the effect) the survey is only valid for 30 seconds after he has left and "I am not responsible for anything I have not seen or missed"

 

How do I know this ?

A failed attempt to take a surveyor to court after I bought a boat on his 'good survey' and found it needed £20k+ of work doing to it to make it 'sea-worthy'.

Ok well thanks for your advice. 

 

I wasn't saying I wouldn't get a survey done, I refuse to even look at boats where the owners are unwilling to have them surveyed, however I am hoping to only pay for the survey and lifting once again after already rejecting one vessel on the long road to life afloat. 

 

I guess it all comes down to having a good old fassioned punt. 

[Alan de Enfield]

34 minutes ago, Microsoft said:

 

 

I guess it all comes down to having a good old fassioned punt. 

 

 

If you are looking for a punt, its not that difficult to lift out and have a look underneath :

 

 

[Mike Hurley]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRD2W_PjtJU&t=1s    Worth watching for when inexperience shows the costly mistakes that can be made.

[Onewheeler]

If (and only if) the hull and engine are not too bad it looks good value. The seller quotes three different BSS dates, all soon, could be worth an offer subject to survey and new BSS. The cosmetics can be done as and when you please. The external paint job looks passable. I'd get rid of the toilet and keep the porta-potti. OVMD!

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

* You can insure it 3rd party only, without a survey but obviously if anything happens to your boat ( sinks, you hit something etc) your costs are not covered. 3rd Party insurance only the pays out to the '3rd party' (the ones you hit)

 

Some of the third party only policies also include salvage cover, so if your boat sinks the cost of getting it afloat again, or removing the wreck is covered, including any costs incurred by the navigation authority. But not the costs of putting the boat right afterwards.

[Alastair]

If you think you are getting plenty of opinions, just start a thread asking for advice about toilets . . .

 

Other people have covered most of the suggestions I'd give about looking for damage.

 

Waterline is a place prone to corrosion if the boat hasn't been looked after. Corrosion pits are usually rough and can be quite deep - if the hull sides were, say, 7mm thick originally, then pits of up to 2mm are absolutely fine. Deeper than that, not so good.

 

Also look at any 'through hulls'. Drain holes for sink, shower, engine cooling. All of these are places where corrosion can cause a lot of damage.

[Microsoft]

14 minutes ago, Alastair said:

If you think you are getting plenty of opinions, just start a thread asking for advice about toilets . . .

 

Other people have covered most of the suggestions I'd give about looking for damage.

 

Waterline is a place prone to corrosion if the boat hasn't been looked after. Corrosion pits are usually rough and can be quite deep - if the hull sides were, say, 7mm thick originally, then pits of up to 2mm are absolutely fine. Deeper than that, not so good.

 

Also look at any 'through hulls'. Drain holes for sink, shower, engine cooling. All of these are places where corrosion can cause a lot of damage.

this is great advice, I will bare it in mind, hadnt thought about looking at the through holes

 

thanks

Edited September 4, 2020 by Microsoft

[ditchcrawler]

14 hours ago, Microsoft said:

 

 

I assume that it was an ex-hire vehicle.

 

 

Any advice would be really appreciated.

 

Looks ex Black Prince to me.

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Looks ex Black Prince to me.

I guess that’s why the details read “Built in 1993. Fitted by Black Prince. ”