Oops! The Waverley has a broken nose

[haggis]

22 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

 We were looking forward to another trip this year. 

Sadly it has been announced that there will be no more Waverley trips this year. On our news tonight there was a photo of the bows from the other side where the damage is a lot worse. She is still at Brodick on Arran till  the MAIB do their inspection etc and it is debatable if she could cruise without taking in water in her present condition.  

Caledonian MacBrayne who run the ferries to the islands turned out last night to bring the Waverley passengers back to the mainland where they were bussed back to where they had set out from in the morning. 

She is a beautiful ship and it is very sad that this has happened. 

Several years ago when we were at a boating event in Glasgow we watched Waverley being turned in the River Clyde on ropes, just as we would do with a narrow boat. Much longer ropes, of course ? 

 

Haggis

[Tacet]

1 hour ago, Ronaldo47 said:

In the 1950's dad often used to take me on the Woolwich Free Ferry in East London when it was operated by paddle boats. A visit to the viewing area of the engine room was one of the highlights of the trip. I feel sure that the paddles were operable independantly, each paddle having its own engine and bridge telegraph. They were replaced by the present diesel ferry boats, themselves about to be replaced, in the early 1960's. 

 

 

The proper Woolwich Ferries had two inverted V twins - one serving each paddle.  Very manoeuvrable and never capsized.

 

Rather heavy on coal though; the lorry used to travel back and forth while the coal man tipped the load down a chute from the vehicle deck to the bunkers.

[ditchcrawler]

There were plans to put a bow rudder on Waverly to help maneuvering but I think they were abandoned. I went from Ipswich to London on her and she sprung off at Ipswich and used a tug at London in the port to wind 

[Ronaldo47]

Pity that the rest of the season has been cancelled, we were really looking forward to another Waverly trip.  I had been under the impression that paddle steamers could turn on a sixpence like the old Woolwich ferries could. I think that we had assistance to wind in London, and thanks to the above posts, now know why.

 

I did wonder how the Woolwich ferry was refuelled!  From what I remember from looking down a ventilation shaft on one occasion in the late 1960's, coke or smokeless fuel was being used at the time.  Given their width, I guess it would have taken a lot to make one capsize. As they were side loading, they needed to be manoeverable, and no doubt due to having independantly- controlled paddles, had no problem turning in the relatively narrow Thames.   I do recall seeing and reading a copy of what I suppose was their licence or insurance certificate in a glass noticeboard, that said it was (only) permitted to travel between South Woolwich and North Woolwich.  One of the ferry captains, who was an uncle of my best friend, used to live in the house opposite ours. I only took a few photos of the old ferrys, but did manage to make a sound recording of a crossing with my  newly-acquired battery tape recorder, including a sequence in the engine room with the sounds of the telegraph bells and the engines starting up and running, as well as the sharp reports made every second or so by the massive hemp mooring ropes as they tightened after being wrapped around the bollards.  Not very hi-fi, the recorder's upper frequency cutoff was only 5.5 kHz, and at present I don't have a working recorder to play the tape on, but from memory it was very much like the sound of the Waverly's engine room.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Ronaldo47

[NB Esk]

As an aside, I had a friend who was the engineer who fitted the engine into the Waverley.  A Scotsman by the name of James Webster.  Long gone now but I believe he said it was around the end of WW2.

 

 

[magnetman]

15 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

In the 1950's dad often used to take me on the Woolwich Free Ferry in East London when it was operated by paddle boats. A visit to the viewing area of the engine room was one of the highlights of the trip. I feel sure that the paddles were operable independantly, each paddle having its own engine and bridge telegraph. They were replaced by the present diesel ferry boats, themselves about to be replaced, in the early 1960's. 

 

The Voith Schneider propelled Woolwich ferries were replaced some time ago by new vessels built in Gdansk and fitted with 4 Hydromaster azimuthing drive units in a diesel-electric system.

 

Not sure what happened to the old ones I guess they were probably cut up. 

 

I've still not been on the new ones. Used to quite like the old ones with the Voith units although sadly it was the high peripheral speed of this type of propeller which caused the death of a crew member a few years ago. Because of the large diameter it wrapped the rope up very fast when it got caught, much quicker than a normal propeller would. Bloke was standing in a bight of rope on the deck. 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by magnetman

[Ronaldo47]

Thanks for the update. I last used the ferry in the mid-1980's. The diesel boats had windows through which you could ger a rather unexciting view of  the engine room, not a patch on the smell of oil and excitement of the moving cranks and eccentrics of the old steam engines. 

[bizzard]

Ben Gunn, name of a steam and a later diesel ferry. They still, I think have two in operation and one moored up as spare. All I want is a little bit of cheese.

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Ronaldo47 said:

. The diesel boats had windows through which you could ger a rather unexciting view of  the engine room, not a patch on the smell of oil and excitement of the moving cranks and eccentrics of the old steam engines. 

First time I went on the  Woolwich ferry was a few years ago. The windows to the engine room were covered over I believe due to vandalism problems . There were signs everywhere saying we won't tolerate abuse of staff so I suspect they had quite a lot of nasty people on the pedestrian parts more recently. Sadly.

 

Not been on the new ones but I bet every square inch is covered by CCTV and quality gear most likely. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by magnetman

[bizzard]

As kids we used to cycle there and spend the day going back and forth on the ferry. In the summer an ice cream van flogging ice creams seemed to be resident parked in the middle below the bridge.  The old steam paddle ferries were side loading, they removed a section of the side railing and lowered a ramp for vehicles.       Ben Gunn.

[Ronaldo47]

Because they were side loading, they had to follow a figure-of-8 course, so ability to turn easily was pretty much a necessity.  I guess the course also meant that they could always moor up facing the flow, whether ebb or flood.  In the early 1950's you were normally aware of the flow by observing the large clumps of detergent foam created by the paddles when getting underweigh, but on one trip a clutch of around half a dozen empty lighters had broken free of their moorings and, carried by the flood tide, were bearing down on our ferry, which had just moored up at the South Pier.  Crew members appeared wielding very long barge poles with which they fended off the lighters. While we were watching the fun, the passenger gangways were raised and after the lighters had been pushed clear, the ferry went back to the North again. Dad didn't want to wait around for the return trip, so we used the foot tunnel instead, the first time I had used it.. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Ronaldo47
Typos, clarification

[Man 'o Kent]

Tilbury ferry, on my way to Canterbury bike festooned with bags and kit -- left had clutch -- right hand throttle+brake --- ticket in teeth.

Grumpy ticket collector: "You do realise I gotta eat me dinner when I've finished 'ere?"

Me: "Well you wash your hands don't you?"

 

Fortunately the Vincent had enough grunt off the line to dodge a flying boot.

 

Them were the happy times before motorways and petrol at 3/6d a gallon. (6p/litre)

[Victor Vectis]

Ooooooo.

 

A Vincent!

 

A Black Lightning?

1952, perhaps?

 

Richard Thompson

[Man 'o Kent]

2 hours ago, Victor Vectis said:

Ooooooo.

 

A Vincent!

 

A Black Lightning?

1952, perhaps?

 

Richard Thompson

Nah! Not on £2/13/10d for a 48 hour/week apprentice's wage. Even back then a halfway decent Shadow was, over £100 and quite out of reach. My mount was a humble 1949 Comet with HRD cases, cost me £35 with a pint of petrol thrown in to get me home if I remember correctly and yes, I've still got it.

[bizzard]

I was on £3 a week as an apprentice. For 5/- I bought a Corgi bike from my mates mum, she had just retired from being a council rent collector for which she used the Corgi bike. After that I was given a 1936 Ford 8 Y Type by a lady for whom I used to service it. She bought a new Mini van. 

    Not THE Corgi bike or the Ford but but similar.

Edited September 6, 2020 by bizzard

[bizzard]

It wasn't called Ben Gunn it was called John Benn, an ancester of Tony Benn.

Edited September 6, 2020 by bizzard

[bizzard]

I believe the Woolwich ferries are-were powered by Paxman Valenta diesels. Same engines that powered the HST 125 Intercity trains.

Edited September 6, 2020 by bizzard

[Tim Lewis]

23 hours ago, magnetman said:

The Voith Schneider propelled Woolwich ferries were replaced some time ago by new vessels built in Gdansk and fitted with 4 Hydromaster azimuthing drive units in a diesel-electric system.

 

Not sure what happened to the old ones I guess they were probably cut up. 

 

I've still not been on the new ones. Used to quite like the old ones with the Voith units although sadly it was the high peripheral speed of this type of propeller which caused the death of a crew member a few years ago. Because of the large diameter it wrapped the rope up very fast when it got caught, much quicker than a normal propeller would. Bloke was standing in a bight of rope on the deck. 

 

 

 

The old Ferries were towed to France for breaking up.

 

One of the two new ferries which replaced the three 1960's ones is named after the teenage crew member who died in the incident.

 

I much preferred the older ones as you could get out of your vehicle to admire the view/trip, the design of the new ones makes it difficult and is actvely discouraged.

 

 The grey squares are for lining up the magnets which are used to moor up the vessels!

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Tim Lewis

[magnetman]

4 hours ago, bizzard said:

I believe the Woolwich ferries are-were powered by Paxman Valenta diesels. Same engines that powered the HST 125 Intercity trains.

736kw Mirlees National diesel units in the previous ferries. 

 

The current ferries have Cummins diesel generators and 4 Lithium battery banks apparently. 

 

 

 

 

[Ronaldo47]

Gordon and Will Crookes from a commercial postcard. Not sure if it is the Southern landing stage with the power station behind, or the Northern with the STC works behind. Detergent foam in evidence, although the river was possibly less polluted when this was taken than it was in the early 1950's, when you sometimes used to get quite large "foambergs" thrown up by the paddles.  

 

By 1968, when I spent the summer working at STC's works at North Woolwich and sometimes had my lunchtime sandwiches sitting by the river at their wharf, the Thames was much cleaner, with green algae growing on the embankment walls, and worm activity visible as the tide came in over the mud banks.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Ronaldo47
Further thoughts, typo.

[Tacet]

On 05/09/2020 at 16:50, bizzard said:

Ben Gunn, name of a steam and a later diesel ferry. They still, I think have two in operation and one moored up as spare. All I want is a little bit of cheese.

John Benn was a paddle steamer (and named after Tony Benn's grandfather); John Burns was a diesel ferry - and named after a trade unionist.

 

No Ben Gunn  and no names common to both steam and diesel ferries.

[Tacet]

23 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Because they were side loading, they had to follow a figure-of-8 course, so ability to turn easily was pretty much a necessity.  I guess the course also meant that they could always moor up facing the flow, whether ebb or flood.  In the early 1950's you were normally aware of the flow by observing the large clumps of detergent foam created by the paddles when getting underweigh, but on one trip a clutch of around half a dozen empty lighters had broken free of their moorings and, carried by the flood tide, were bearing down on our ferry, which had just moored up at the South Pier.  Crew members appeared wielding very long barge poles with which they fended off the lighters. While we were watching the fun, the passenger gangways were raised and after the lighters had been pushed clear, the ferry went back to the North again. Dad didn't want to wait around for the return trip, so we used the foot tunnel instead, the first time I had used it.. 

The paddle steamers  always came in against the tide, as you say  Mostly the vehicles embarked one side of the ferry and discharged from the other.

 

But when the tide turned, they came alongside on the other bank on the same (port or starboard side) with the vehicles therefore facing the wrong way, which was a bit of a problem.  The deckhands loaded that trip with a little space, so that there was sufficient room turn a car and as the deck cleared, the lorries could turn too.

[Ronaldo47]

Thanks, I did wonder what happened when the tide turned. Given how busy they always were, I thought the other option of an unloaded trip to get the right way round unlikely. 

 

Here's one of "Squires", taken mid-river from the passenger gangway of one of the replacement ferrys during the changeover period. I hadn't found out if it was possible to get up to the vehicle deck to get a better view, nothing like as good for foot passengers as the old boats, but that's progress for you. It was the last frame on my first roll of 35mm colour film (what must have been one of the last batches of the original 10 ASA Kodachrome), so it's the only colour one I have of the old boats. 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Ronaldo47
Remove duplicate photo

[Tacet]

56 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Thanks, I did wonder what happened when the tide turned. Given how busy they always were, I thought the other option of an unloaded trip to get the right way round unlikely. 

 

Here's one of "Squires", taken mid-river from the passenger gangway of one of the replacement ferrys during the changeover period. I hadn't found out if it was possible to get up to the vehicle deck to get a better view, nothing like as good for foot passengers as the old boats, but that's progress for you. It was the last frame on my first roll of 35mm colour film (what must have been one of the last batches of the original 10 ASA Kodachrome), so it's the only colour one I have of the old boats. 

 

Nice photo.  The steamers and the new diesels rang together for a short while.  At busy times, there were three ferries on and they didn't work to a timetable.  The steamers could complete a cycle quicker than the newer ferries as they loaded less and, at that time, both were using the alongside pontoons built for the paddle steamers.  So the last hurrah of the paddle steamers was to whistle impatiently as they caught the slower counterparts; such joy.

 

As a young boy in the 1930s my dad was put on the ferry on the Woolwich side to be collected by an aunt at North Woolwich; but there was no waiting relative.  A little thought brokered the possibility that he may have dawdled in the engine room a little longer than time allowed, and he had made at least two crossings of the river.   His alternative theory that perhaps he had emerged from the engine room before the ferry had cast off was widely derided by those that knew him well.